No Gunsmith work on AR's

[allen-1]

Gunsmith makes his living from his shop. Maura Healey is making up interpretation of LAW as she goes along. He probably doesn't want to lose his license, his livelihood, his paycheck, his means of paying his mortgage.

So, maybe he is wrong in how he's interpreting the current "law" - but he's got a lot to lose if Maura decides all of a sudden that anyone who worked on an "ILLEGAL ASSAULT WEAPON" was aiding and abetting a felony or some other such BS -and- decides to apply it retroactively. Does the phrase "felons in waiting" ring a bell to any of you guys in Massachusetts? Or "once bitten twice shy"?

 

[Mountain]

This whole felons in waiting thing is bullsh!t. It's getting close to a year now. Somebody remind me- how many arrests? This whole thing was about control, not law.

What law would this shop have broken? Sorry- I just think it's sad to see members of the 'community' snapping to attention, clicking their heels together, and giving a hearty "Heil Healy!" because they don't want to upset der Fuhrerette. Potential loss of income? LOL, banning the most popular rifle from your shop will take care of that.

Soon the no evil black rifle mentality will start creeping into club board meetings. I have more respect for Healy than I do for any candy asses who want to over-interpret her 'opinion'. Follow the law, don't panic and make sh!t up.

 

[MachineHead]

Hypothetical situation: smith logs AR into his books, does work, calls customer to pick it up. Something happens to the customer where they cannot pick the firearm up. Customer sends wife. Smith has to 4473 the AR to the wife along with background check. This would put him in violation of BS, would it not?

If this was the hypothetical situation, I'd hold the rifle for the owner until he could pick it up. There's no sense in making waves.

 

[mac1911]

No he doesn't.

27 CFR § 478.124 Firearms transaction record.
(a) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer shall not sell or otherwise dispose, temporarily or permanently, of any firearm to any person, other than another licensee, unless the licensee records the transaction on a firearms transaction record, Form 4473: Provided, That a firearms transaction record, Form 4473, shall not be required to record the disposition made of a firearm delivered to a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or customizing when such firearm or a replacement firearm is returned to the person from whom received.

They might not have to do a 4473 but Licensed Gun Smiths DO have to log them in their record book in and out.

Where talking federal law here
https://www.fflconsultinggroup.com/...irements-gunsmith-requirements-atf-form-4473/

I'm not sure what laws exist for FFL01 in MA other than the business end.?

 

[Sparky123]

I was at a Gunsmith this week. A customer came in with a AR that needed repair. The Smith looked it over but refused to take it in. His reason was based on his understanding from the AG was he could take it in, repair it but would be in violation if he returned it to the customer. Is this where we are now?

Sadly yes, but this is nothing new. The AG has used fear and confusion for years. Many gun dealers / smiths just don't want to take a chance. Remember, you can't be prosecuted for something you didn't do, so why take a chance ? And I'm sure that's exactly what this gunsmith was thinking. So, if the AG's new interpretation of AR's and AK's is ever going to be overturned then the FFL's will have to do their part, it's not just about the owners, it's also about those who sell them.

 

[dennism]

Call the ag and report the gunsmith for religious discrimination.

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[Chevy 2 65]

I was at a Gunsmith this week. A customer came in with a AR that needed repair. The Smith looked it over but refused to take it in. His reason was based on his understanding from the AG was he could take it in, repair it but would be in violation if he returned it to the customer. Is this where we are now?

My god !!!!!! This is what it's come to.

 

[amm5061]

Sadly yes, but this is nothing new. The AG has used fear and confusion for years. Many gun dealers / smiths just don't want to take a chance. Remember, you can't be prosecuted for something you didn't do, so why take a chance ?

That's cute that you think that. Did you pay your health insurance premium this month?

 

[sschevy]

They might not have to do a 4473 but Licensed Gun Smiths DO have to log them in their record book in and out.

Where talking federal law here
https://www.fflconsultinggroup.com/...irements-gunsmith-requirements-atf-form-4473/

I'm not sure what laws exist for FFL01 in MA other than the business end.?

They only need to be logged if kept overnight, if it's same day service , as most AR repairs can be, there is no need to log the firearm into the bound book.

also in many cases the repairs or modifications on AR style platforms only involve the upper in which case the lower can go home with the customer, the upper stays with the smith and no "gun" was left at the shop to log in anyway

 

[EJFudd]

My god !!!!!! This is what it's come to.

That is what G.O.A.L. was saying in the podcast that Drix spoke of earlier. I thought we were supposed to take G.O.A.L. seriously... no? Was G.O.A.L. just spouting BS? Was it that MassPrudence thing again? I'm sick of the whole damn thing... and I think I know who the gunsmith might have been.

 

[babygorilla]

I'm still of the opinion that we should get EVERY FFL in MA together in one place, have someone transfer an AR or AK through the FFL to another person, then back again. Give her THOUSANDS of people and see if she takes it to court. Have it be overseen / coordinated / documented by Comm2A and Goal.

 

[noxin]

I'm still of the opinion that we should get EVERY FFL in MA together in one place, have someone transfer an AR or AK through the FFL to another person, then back again. Give her THOUSANDS of people and see if she takes it to court. Have it be overseen / coordinated / documented by Comm2A and Goal.

Straw purchase.

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[Ink]

maybe he was making an excuse to politely fire a customer? you never know both sides.......

 

[sschevy]

They only need to be logged if kept overnight, if it's same day service , as most AR repairs can be, there is no need to log the firearm into the bound book.

also in many cases the repairs or modifications on AR style platforms only involve the upper in which case the lower can go home with the customer, the upper stays with the smith and no "gun" was left at the shop to log in anyway

But ultimately at the end of the day the rifle is going back to the original purchaser, no 4473, no FA10, nothing is required except a quick check of the LTC so I don't see what the issue is anyway

 

[babygorilla]

Straw purchase.

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Nope, straw purchase is buying it for someone else, this would be two transfers, same gun. Owner to FFL to new owner to FFL to old owner. That way the gun never really gets owned by the other party, except for how long it takes to generate the paperwork.

 

[slugworth]

Who cares????

 

[allen-1]

This whole felons in waiting thing is bullsh!t. It's getting close to a year now. Somebody remind me- how many arrests? This whole thing was about control, not law.

What law would this shop have broken? Sorry- I just think it's sad to see members of the 'community' snapping to attention, clicking their heels together, and giving a hearty "Heil Healy!" because they don't want to upset der Fuhrerette. Potential loss of income? LOL, banning the most popular rifle from your shop will take care of that.

Soon the no evil black rifle mentality will start creeping into club board meetings. I have more respect for Healy than I do for any candy asses who want to over-interpret her 'opinion'. Follow the law, don't panic and make sh!t up.

The problem is that you guys WERE following the law, and the law got re-interpreted at the whim of a bureaucrat. And not overturned yet by any court. Her "opinion" has become de-facto law. California just tightened the screws some more with their ban of 10 round mags, and New York's SAFE act hasn't been repealed. CT's post-Sandy Hook legislation hasn't been repealed.

Every one of these states appears to look at each other's successes as a challenge, or as incentive to see what else they can get passed. Maybe they really do think that they're doing some good; I don't believe that - but the net effect is the same - they keep trying to pass legislation - and in Massachusett's case they didn't even bother passing legislation - they just reinterpreted existing law. Maura Healey just made shit up and it has the force of law.

I send my checks to the 2nd Amendment Foundation, to CCDL and to GA.org. If I lived in Massachusetts I'd send money to GOAL and to COMM2A; I'd recommend to those of you that live there to consider sending them contributions - they're fighting for you.

 

[mark056]

This whole felons in waiting thing is bullsh!t. It's getting close to a year now. Somebody remind me- how many arrests? This whole thing was about control, not law.

What law would this shop have broken? Sorry- I just think it's sad to see members of the 'community' snapping to attention, clicking their heels together, and giving a hearty "Heil Healy!" because they don't want to upset der Fuhrerette. Potential loss of income? LOL, banning the most popular rifle from your shop will take care of that.

Soon the no evil black rifle mentality will start creeping into club board meetings. I have more respect for Healy than I do for any candy asses who want to over-interpret her 'opinion'. Follow the law, don't panic and make sh!t up.

Okay fair enough. But just how far are YOU willing to go? Are you walking the walk or just talking the talk? It's really easy to knock some poor guy, no matter how misguided he might be. Everyone is really cautious right now and even GOAL is a little uneasy. Guy will like most, err on the side of caution because he wants to keep his business. If he loses business because people won't come to him, then who loses? He does by making a bad decision. It's part of a system known as capitalism. Lose enough business and maybe the policy will change or he might go out of business. In any event it's his problem, not yours and not mine.

Tell you what: why don't you organize a protest in front of the State House and everybody bring their unloaded ARs. Just stand there with some anti Healy signs. People keep saying that open carry is technically legal here, and why not with the dreaded Black Rifle? If that doesn't float your boat then something different but along the same lines.

I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen amigo.

 

[MachineHead]

Okay fair enough. But just how far are YOU willing to go? Are you walking the walk or just talking the talk? It's really easy to knock some poor guy, no matter how misguided he might be. Everyone is really cautious right now and even GOAL is a little uneasy. Guy will like most, err on the side of caution because he wants to keep his business. If he loses business because people won't come to him, then who loses? He does by making a bad decision. It's part of a system known as capitalism. Lose enough business and maybe the policy will change or he might go out of business. In any event it's his problem, not yours and not mine.

Tell you what: why don't you organize a protest in front of the State House and everybody bring their unloaded ARs. Just stand there with some anti Healy signs. People keep saying that open carry is technically legal here, and why not with the dreaded Black Rifle? If that doesn't float your boat then something different but along the same lines.

I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen amigo.

Isn't open carrying of an uncased long arm illegal in MA?

 

[oldguy68]

What happened on 7/20 was a stepping stone. A test to see how the legislators, law enforcement and firearm owners would react to a knowingly bogus reinterpretation.

Our 2nd amendment rights were being used for the AG's own benefit for political grandstanding.

Where would they put up to four hundred thousand citizens if there is not enough jail space for us all.
We could all refuse to go out on bail and the system would have no funds to house us till our court dates and trials were over.
They would have to hire more public defenders as well..

Think about it every sale from a dealer or individual whether that person even still possesses said firearm or not would have to be prosecuted!
Going back to 1998.

Some families would be on welfare due to the loss of the head of the household.
If the state looses the appeals we all file.
We would go after the state for false imprisonment and have them pay damages to each of us.

We could bankrupt the whole state.

This is the reality of what the AG did on 7/20!


This does not include those that can be charged for purchasing said firearms while living in MA. But that now reside in another state.
So move away from here like others have stated and this problem is still your problem..

 

[Ringworm]

That or he just really doesn't understand the laws or is too scared of finding out the hard way that he didn't.

Bingo.

 

[mannydog]

Why? To attempt to destroy his business? He has been in business for over 35 years. Who can blame him for being careful with the AG making rules up As she goes along. Let me remind you most of us are Felons in waiting because of her.
Become a member and get some skin in the game.

I had a similar experience with a South Coast gunsmith who wouldn't pin the brake or the stock on an AR a few weeks after the AG ban. Likely it is the same smith referred to in the OP.

I'm not going to out him. It's his choice. if he doesn't feel comfortable, although maybe uninformed, doing this work so be it. But otherwise, he's been a real good guy over the years and a fine gunsmith so I'm not going to slam him or his business.

I had somebody else do the work.

 

[G&N Gunsmithing at Gartman Arms.]

The AGs current "interpretation" of the state's unconstitutional assault weapons ban does not prohibit licensed gunsmiths from modifying or repairing legally owned AR-15s. The only "assault weapon" gunsmithing service we cannot currently provide is building of new stripped lowers into a new firearm. If you have a lower with an FA-10 prior to 7/21/16, it is your property, and you can modify and repair it as you please. We are cleaning, Cerakoting, pinning, fixing, and sighting in AR-15s all the time. All that being said, the State's directive on this is incredibly poor, and subject to change at a moments notice. A gunsmith has the right to refuse any service to any customer for any reason he chooses. If the gunsmith in question in this post does not wish to make AR-15s MA compliant, that is his business. There are plenty of other people in the state who will gladly help you.

 

[Rockrivr1]

If that was really the case S&W might as well just close up shop in Springfield and move.

 

[greencobra]

the laws pertaining to firearms in massachusetts are as numerous as they are at times crazy. not to mention confusing. it's no wonder a lot of these guys tune out...and turn the radio off (so to speak).

 

[JRLB]

...A gunsmith has the right to refuse any service to any customer for any reason he chooses. If the gunsmith in question in this post does not wish to make AR-15s MA compliant, that is his business. There are plenty of other people in the state who will gladly help you.

As it is the OPs right to object.

 

[mark056]

Isn't open carrying of an uncased long arm illegal in MA?

Good question. It's not illegal when your hunting. I don't think anyone really knows and nobody wants to take the risk of going to court over it.

You will be arrested, 99% sure of that. The charge might be disturbing the peace though. The ideal test case would be someone who is maxing out the actuarial tables, or a person with a terminal illness, in other words someone with little to lose.

Of course, if that position were taken back in 1776 there would have been no American Revolution. So, whose first?

 

[drgrant]

I'm still of the opinion that we should get EVERY FFL in MA together in one place, have someone transfer an AR or AK through the FFL to another person, then back again. Give her THOUSANDS of people and see if she takes it to court. Have it be overseen / coordinated / documented by Comm2A and Goal.

Lol, nobody will care. That already happened on 7/20 when people "weren't supposed to be doing that" and she did nothing. (except issue another threat).

-Mike

 

[babygorilla]

Lol, nobody will care. That already happened on 7/20 when people "weren't supposed to be doing that" and she did nothing. (except issue another threat).

-Mike

Kinda my point. Publicize that it's ineffectual.

 

[MGnoob]

They might not have to do a 4473 but Licensed Gun Smiths DO have to log them in their record book in and out.

Where talking federal law here
https://www.fflconsultinggroup.com/...irements-gunsmith-requirements-atf-form-4473/

I'm not sure what laws exist for FFL01 in MA other than the business end.?

Your funny, your own link says otherwise....lol

ATF Gun Log And Same Day Repairs

If a gunsmith repairs a firearm and returns the firearm to the person from whom it was received on the same day it was received, an acquisition and disposition entry is not required in the A&D record. If the firearm remains on the premises until the next business day, a record of acquisition and disposition must be made in the permanent record.