Newbies who question our gun rights dedication.

Mikey

Mikey

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Recently there has been some new members who question our dedication to gun rights.

So IMHO:

Guns rights are by far the greatest domestic issue we as FREE Americans must deal with. If our .gov does not trust us to own guns, if Obama or any politician does not trust us to own guns then what does that say about how they feel about us. How am I suppose to trust a political figure who does not trust me with a gun? Yeah I know "don't trust any politicians" but that is not the point. With 80 million gun owners in this country and 99.9% of us not causing crime why is it even an issue at all? It is a made up issue used by the left to get votes by playing to emotions, it is not about crime or saving the children and if you believe it is then you are a moron plan and simple.

Anyone who is willing to give up their gun rights should be prepared to give up every right they have. The restriction of gun rights is the first step in all socialist and totalitarian movements and once they take them good luck getting them back. This is not Europe, Australia, Russia this is the U.S., the only truly free country in the world. This country is unique in the fact that it is the first to truly be created, maintained and defended by free men. No other country can say that.

If gun rights are not so important then why would our founding fathers have singled them out and placed them in the constitution? If you are willing to give up your gun rights then so be it, I for one will have not part in it.

I woke up late today so maybe I am a little cranky...
 
Mikey, they aren't in our Constitution, they are in the Bill of Rights, an afterthought to the constitution. Other than that, I agree with exactly what you say.

+1
 
depicts said:
Mikey, they aren't in our Constitution, they are in the Bill of Rights, an afterthought to the constitution. Other than that, I agree with exactly what you say.

+1
Click to expand...

The only reason they were even put into the BoR is because some of the people in the Founders' time were afraid that if the natural rights that they took for granted weren't specifically mentioned, they'd be eliminated by some authoritarian johnny-come-lately. And they were right.

And as a point of order, I believe that Amendments to the Constitution have the same weight as the original text of the Constitution and are considered part and parcel thereof.
 
First amendment guarantees the freedom of speech.
Second amendment guarantees the ability to protect that speech.
 
depicts said:
Mikey, they aren't in our Constitution, they are in the Bill of Rights, an afterthought to the constitution. Other than that, I agree with exactly what you say.

+1
Click to expand...

I believe they chose to put them in a separate document so they didn't get lost in the noise and explicitly spell out the rights of the people.
 
Mikey said:
If our .gov does not trust us to own guns, if Obama or any politician does not trust us to own guns then what does that say about how they feel about us. How am I suppose to trust a political figure who does not trust me with a gun? Yeah I know "don't trust any politicians" but that is not the point.
Click to expand...
I keep having to remind people of this...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Click to expand...
The question is not does the government trust US with our guns, but do WE trust the GOVERNMENT with it's guns! And lately, the answer has not been in the affirmative... Let's all remember, Deval, Teddy, George W, etc, all work for US. Even if they don't seem to remember it. [thinking]
C-pher said:
NOW, you two need to get over for beers....
Click to expand...
Hopefully, they'll come out to Marlborough on the October 12th to Firefly's and join us for BBQ. And bring Sgt Tammy, will ya?
 
Mikey said:
If our .gov does not trust us to own guns, if Obama or any politician does not trust us to own guns then what does that say about how they feel about us. How am I suppose to trust a political figure who does not trust me with a gun? Yeah I know "don't trust any politicians" but that is not the point.
Click to expand...

And another thing. I'm not really worried about the fact that they do or don't trust law-obiding citizens who own guns. I would rather that they don't get too comfortable in their freedom stripping ways and trusting us to sit around and take it forever, the fact that we have a means to defend ourselves keeps them honest.

Let's all try to remember that these hack jobs work for us and not the other way around. They do what we the people want them to do and not the other way around. And if they are worried about me having a means to defend myself from their actions, then that speaks volumes about their actions.
 
doobie said:
I believe they chose to put them in a separate document so they didn't get lost in the noise and explicitly spell out the rights of the people.
Click to expand...

I believe you are wholly ignorant of the process by which the Constitution was drafted and ratified. The BoR was not part of the original Constitution, nor was that part of some cunning plan.

The BoR was the tangible product by which the Jeffersonians and Hamiltonians were able to work out a compromise to the conflict between them and get the Constitution ratified.

Read a book.......
 
Last edited:
Scrivener said:
I believe you are wholly ignorant of the process by which the Constitution was drafted and ratified. The BoR was not part of the original Constitution, nor was that part of some cunning plan.

The BoR was the tangible product by which the conflict between the Jeffersonians and Hamiltonians were able to work out a compromise and get the Constitution ratified.

Read a book.......
Click to expand...

HAAAAHAAAAAA. You slay me!
 
Mikey said:
Recently there has been some new members who question our dedication to gun rights.

So IMHO:

Guns rights are by far the greatest domestic issue we as FREE Americans must deal with. If our .gov does not trust us to own guns, if Obama or any politician does not trust us to own guns then what does that say about how they feel about us. How am I suppose to trust a political figure who does not trust me with a gun? Yeah I know "don't trust any politicians" but that is not the point. With 80 million gun owners in this country and 99.9% of us not causing crime why is it even an issue at all? It is a made up issue used by the left to get votes by playing to emotions, it is not about crime or saving the children and if you believe it is then you are a moron plan and simple.

Anyone who is willing to give up their gun rights should be prepared to give up every right they have. The restriction of gun rights is the first step in all socialist and totalitarian movements and once they take them good luck getting them back. This is not Europe, Australia, Russia this is the U.S., the only truly free country in the world. This country is unique in the fact that it is the first to truly be created, maintained and defended by free men. No other country can say that.

If gun rights are not so important then why would our founding fathers have singled them out and placed them in the constitution? If you are willing to give up your gun rights then so be it, I for one will have not part in it.

I woke up late today so maybe I am a little cranky...
Click to expand...


one lil problem. not quite true.... Your statistic is quite wrong. There are ALOT more people that are gun owners who causes or starts crimes. I'm not talking about the only unregistered guns... i'm talking about every thing in general. There are young adults who owns firearms and causes crimes. I'm not bite'in your heads off, just saying that you're lil bit off there.

I do agree that who ever is to give up their gun rights should be ready to give up all of their rights. We have the gun rights for a reason, why take it down just because of a horrific scenes that you have witnessed that occurred with "guns"? I just have a feeling that many people in America is so ignorant and they decide to hop onto the anti-gun wagon. It sickens me every once a while when i hear someone talking / bashing about gun owners or what not. I just wished they can move onto something else such as soaps... LOL! "omg lets ban DAWN because it killed my son.... dawn is bad! it kills people."

lol i felt like it.
 
bvet4dog said:
one lil problem. not quite true.... Your statistic is quite wrong. There are ALOT more people that are gun owners who causes or starts crimes. I'm not talking about the only unregistered guns... i'm talking about every thing in general. There are young adults who owns firearms and causes crimes. I'm not bite'in your heads off, just saying that you're lil bit off there.

I do agree that who ever is to give up their gun rights should be ready to give up all of their rights. We have the gun rights for a reason, why take it down just because of a horrific scenes that you have witnessed that occurred with "guns"? I just have a feeling that many people in America is so ignorant and they decide to hop onto the anti-gun wagon. It sickens me every once a while when i hear someone talking / bashing about gun owners or what not. I just wished they can move onto something else such as soaps... LOL! "omg lets ban DAWN because it killed my son.... dawn is bad! it kills people."

lol i felt like it.
Click to expand...

I don't even know where to start on how incredibly wrong you are about gun owners and crime. I'll leave it to the rest for now.
 
jhblaze1 said:
I don't even know where to start on how incredibly wrong you are about gun owners and crime. I'll leave it to the rest for now.
Click to expand...

guess you need to open your eyes a bit. let me clear it up a bit.

There are millions of gun owners right? now he said 99.9% of them dont cause crimes.... I find that not true because the rate he stated is too high. there are alot more people out there who are gun owners who causes/start crimes. Myself i've witnessed several shootouts over the weekend in north carolina. it's not very pretty. You have to understand, not every killing or shoot outs are broadcasted on the media and you dont see/hear about most of them. Every day someone gets killed from shootings.

so think about it throughout on what im trying to point out.
 
Cliff Notes for the fashionably late

Let me make it easier for the folks who's eyes hurt just looking at that post.

What Bvet4dog seems to be saying is, he believes the true percentage of gun owners who use their firearms in the commission of a crime is higher than 1/10 of 1% figure that Mikey cites.

I'm making no statement either way as I have no facts to reference. Just clarifying the debate for the spectators [popcorn]
 
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You dont have to be a gun toting hunter that spends his nights reloading and his days thumbing through gun rags to be an American. Guns are not for everyone, and just as its not fair for them to place us all in the crazy gun owner category, neither is it fair for us to put them in the stupid sheep category.
 
Raoul Duke said:
Let me make it easier for the folks who's eyes hurt just looking at that post.

What Bvet4dog seems to be saying is, he believes the true percentage of gun owners who use their firearms in the commission of a crime is higher than 1/10 of 1% figure that Mikey cites.

I'm make not statement either way as I have no facts to reference. Just clarifying the debate for the spectators [popcorn]
Click to expand...

Oh, my bad. I'm at work so i have to read and post quick. I thought he was arguing that gun owners commit more crime than non gun owners. I almost shit a brick.
 
doobie said:
Oh wow, they have books on the Constitution and BoR? My friends have been telling me I must watch the musical 1776 to learn about them.
Click to expand...

Siddown, John Jason!

Great musical. Not very accurate, but wonderful songs... and whenever I read John Adams' words, I hear them in William Daniel's voice. [laugh]
 
bvet4dog said:
one lil problem. not quite true.... Your statistic is quite wrong. There are ALOT more people that are gun owners who causes or starts crimes. I'm not talking about the only unregistered guns... i'm talking about every thing in general. There are young adults who owns firearms and causes crimes. I'm not bite'in your heads off, just saying that you're lil bit off there.
Click to expand...

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics there were less then 400,000 reported gun crimes each year for more then a decade. The NRA and the BATFE both say there are around 80 million gun owners in the U.S. That means 99.5% of gun owners did not commit a crime.

If that is "quite wrong" then I apologize.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=83
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/guncrime.htm
 
Mikey said:
That means 99.5% of gun owners did not commit a crime.
Click to expand...

At a minimum. I suspect you would find that a good number of people who commit one gun crime actually commit multiple gun crimes. 'Number of individuals who committed at least one gun crime' vs 'gun owners' would be a much better metric, and would likely show an even greater percentage of gun owners who did not commit a crime.
 
Mikey said:
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics there were less then 400,000 reported gun crimes each year for more then a decade. The NRA and the BATFE both say there are around 80 million gun owners in the U.S. That means 99.5% of gun owners did not commit a crime.

If that is "quite wrong" then I apologize.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/factsheets/read.aspx?ID=83
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/guncrime.htm
Click to expand...

Actually you have to break that down even further. To attibute all 400,000 gun crimes commited each year to only legal gun owners would not be accurate. It is probably accurate to say that 90% of said 400,000 gun crimes are caused by illegal gun posessors. That would make the percentage of gun crimes committed by legal owners .0005% That would mean that 99.95% of all gun owners did not commit a crime.
 

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