New Shooter recruitment strategies

[PatMcD]

With the season winding down, I think this is a good topic for the Fall/Winter months.


This past weekend I had a lengthy pit conversation with a long-time shooter/match director. He was pretty bummed out. We were discussing the low attendance lately at some local matches and how to attract new shooters.
He normally runs the CMP Garand matches, which are always upheld as the "gateway" into NRA Highpower shooting. He has a list going back over the last few years of some 80 individuals who shot one or two matches and then we never heard from them again. Clearly, we aren't "setting the hook" with those matches.
There are two clubs up here that hold conventional Highpower beginner clinics/matches. We picked up maybe a half-dozen shooters over the years who come back and shoot at least a few times during the season. Again, nothing that is drawing in decent numbers. Definitely no younger shooters.

My initial thoughts are this:
1. NRA Highpower is a very humbling discipline. It is very difficult to master, let alone come into it cold and expect to do well. Some people's ego's are just too large to allow them to be seen doing poorly more than once. What I mean is that we'll get a new guy who says "yeah, I'm a pretty good shot" who then goes on to place at the bottom of that day's competition. He shouldn't expect to do well, because he's never done it before, but some guys just can't handle it and we'll never see them again.

Once #1 is overcome, we get to #2...

2. It's difficult to make yourself keep doing something if you don't do well at it, or never seem to advance. You watch other guys post really high scores with boring regularity, yet you can't seem to shoot anything better than a Sharpshooter score. "I just don't have what it takes; I'll never shoot a good score." There are a ton of guys out there with all the equipment who we never see anymore because of this. I know because they've told me so.



Brian M. and I have talked about holding an Advanced Highpower Shooters clinic next Spring. Focused on those who hold an NRA classification instead of the new shooter. Based loosely on the Remington/Bushmaster type of clinic. http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-Remington-Bushmaster-Highpower-clinic-videos

I'm thinking if we could help shooters get over the scoring "hump" they think they are behind, maybe they will find renewed interest.


I'm curious to hear what NH and Mass are doing, what the results are, etc..
A solid Junior program seems to be what we need, but how to start from the ground up? How do you compete with school sports, video games, etc.?

 

[mac1911]

I will chime in here. from my perspective.

As for Service rifle shooting the number one problem for new shooters is lack awareness of the sport at all.
As for shooters not comeing back I think the "ego" or lack of instant satisfaction plays a huge role.

I have been hooked for some time I just have not had the time to get to many matches. I am lucky to find time that matches up to any shooting sport schedule.

For shooters not returning i think it has to do with logistics. If I wasnt with in one hour of reading I would not get to any XTC 600 yard shoots. Up until this year I have not heard of any sanctioned matches at the clubs in my area for NRA or CMP rifle shooting.

As for jr shooters......I dont think a lot of parents could be bothered touting thier kids around to shoot guns<<<< one of the biggest problems

Also: If it was not for my Dad I can not say at any point did anyone mention shooting sports through out my life. The most intro to guns
I had besides my dad was a fat guy on the stage in 8th grade telling us how dangerous guns are and to not touch them. Tell adult if you ever come across them, thats it...that was 25+ years ago. nothing about the sport. Only thing I remeber growing up is a tid bit at the time the olympics are on...I only remeber seeing pistol shooting.

I try to get people involved. I put out a NES post for unwanted pellet guns. Hooked up 6 kids/friends with them. only one is still active and going hunting for the first time this year.

I have for years offered people ammo guns transportation to "give it a try" Very few actually take the offer.

 

[MisterHappy]

First, I suck at rifle shooting.

But I do have some experience with "growing" new shooters on the Trap field.

Youths - this is a toughie, as you gotta get them while they're young. It takes a BIG kid to handle a Garand. If you billed it as an "AR League" you might get more traction - everyone knows what that platform's like, from video games.

Sucess - have a separate "side match" for new shooters. When I do a turkey shoot, if there is a crowd of inexperienced shooters, I squad them separately; if they were to go against my kid, or a few others, they'd likely go hungry. If their scores are not at the same level as the "Big frogs in the big pond", they may want to me the "Big frog in the little pond".

Progress: I'm not sure if your program would be amenable to it, but we use the NRA Qualification Program on the Trap field, and that helps to keep shooters' interest. I'm not sure how the scoring maps onto your regular scoring regieme, but it works for us.

Good luck.

 

[PatMcD]

First, I suck at rifle shooting.

But I do have some experience with "growing" new shooters on the Trap field.

Youths - this is a toughie, as you gotta get them while they're young. It takes a BIG kid to handle a Garand. If you billed it as an "AR League" you might get more traction - everyone knows what that platform's like, from video games.

Sucess - have a separate "side match" for new shooters. When I do a turkey shoot, if there is a crowd of inexperienced shooters, I squad them separately; if they were to go against my kid, or a few others, they'd likely go hungry. If their scores are not at the same level as the "Big frogs in the big pond", they may want to me the "Big frog in the little pond".

Progress: I'm not sure if your program would be amenable to it, but we use the NRA Qualification Program on the Trap field, and that helps to keep shooters' interest. I'm not sure how the scoring maps onto your regular scoring regieme, but it works for us.

Good luck.

I would NEVER start anybody with a Garand, nomatter how big they were. In fact, I actively discourage anybody from using one who is serious about shooting highpower rifle.

 

[bpm990d]

Pat, I think we just need to do the field of dreams strategy. If we do it they will come.

We should pick 6 days (Saturdays 8:30 - 3:00) next year for a Rifleman Rendezvous where we work on one position/day and wind up with a match like the state championship as the culmination. Teach ourselves how to coach each other. Could even be for masters/highmasters.

B

 

[jasons]

Charlie did an advanced clinic at Reading early in the season. I thought it was really good and I definitely improved because of it.

Getting new shooters to come back is tough. It's an expensive, difficult, and time consuming sport that frankly just doesn't seem to resonate with the average person. I think we'd have better luck marketing toward veterans and other people who were part of a profession of arms (like mob hitmen and cops.) I think guys like that "get it" a bit easier than most and are more likely to come back.

If I had known highpower existed when I left the Corps in 2000 I would have started shooting then. I had no idea it existed until I went and ran my mouth here and got challenged to come shoot a match, but by then over a decade had been wasted. I coulda been a contenda.

- - - Updated - - -

Pat, I think we just need to do the field of dreams strategy. If we do it they will come.

We should pick 6 days (Saturdays 8:30 - 3:00) next year for a Rifleman Rendezvous where we work on one position/day and wind up with a match like the state championship as the culmination. Teach ourselves how to coach each other. Could even be for masters/highmasters.

B

I like this idea. It would be great if the schedules could be coordinated such that we don't miss any of the big matches.


EDIT: I'm probably going to get flamed, but I really think that the CMP pushing Garand and games matches is going to hurt us in the long run. This is not what "next gen" shooters are going to want to do and I think it puts them off in many cases.

 

[mac1911]

I will agree with mister happy...at my club they try to get you on the nra shotgun qualifer also. Its a good way to challenge yourself.
The cmp shoot....not so much. Its just a bimonthly clinic/ introduction. Scores don't mean much unless you do it yourself. No scores are registered. As for exposer. Every meeting the announce to the same 30 people what's going on. Which the 30 people divided pistol/ rifle/ shotgun and there's been a riff between the 3 since I can remember

Jason's echoes what I was saying about lack of exposer. To hear someone from marines that he doesn't know there is a "service rifle competition " is a shock to me.
Hearing that reminds me of myself. I didn't even know my club had trap shooting for 5 years! Mainly because there was no one running it. There in itself lies another problem. Findind enough help to make matches work.

I am offering one of my friends a free ride at a upcomeing garand match. Hes no stranger to garands or shooting but never shotca match. I offered ride breakfest ammo gun entry fee.........the lack of Yes jumping off his lips is discouraging and somewhat insulting.....


Does the NRA even make it a point to try and get into high schools to promote gun safety and sport
shooting?


Last thing. The lack of communication between clubs is sad. There are 4 clubs with in 20 minutes of each other. They often pies and moan about lack of shooters at events. Ask them who they told and you get a pretty lame answer like everyone. Meaning the ten guys that show up anyway. I think for any shooting sport to thrive it needs to be pushed..

"

 

[warwickben]

I think after some of the school shootings they wouldn't be welcomed in schools....

I'm from ma
I'm a new gun owner going on about 4 months of having my ltc-a.i used to shoot with my dad before he split . But I'm pretty good with my 1911 and rifles if its zeroed in.

I have the problem of not really knowing any one that shoots. I know two people and there way greener then me so when they come with me I'm teaching them...my dad, I basicaly just started chilling with after not seeing him for 20 years is kinda a fudd, thinks its against mass law that I'm building a AR-15 and from shooting with him the one time I have, I know more about guns and better at.

I want to learn to shoot better. And would love to get into some events.
The problem is how to learn. Yeah there's some classes ,sig comes to mind. I'm a pretty shy guy and I personally would feel uncomfortable learning in big groups . afraid I'd ask some thing dumb. I'm looking to join a club but a lot of them you need to know some one, be a member of the NRA etc etc. so in mass it's like ok after spending x amount for your ltc and dealing with alot of bull. You gotta go spend a bunch more on different guns. Member fees to this group ,a club etc . and Work your way into a club etc .

So as a new shooter you have to deal with so much stuff. Just to be able to shoot for the most part. Then you gotta learn to become better at shooting, $$$ for classes etc, cause you dont wanna look like a fool, or have brass balls and be able to approach some one at a club for tips or advice. Then how do you learn to be in the event, like how it works etc what do you need....For me this is gonna be the hard part since I'm pretty Dam shy and feel so awkward talking to random people I don't know.

As a new shooter from mass it's pretty over whelming .

The real question not how to get new shooters . But how can you make it easier for them to start.

Maybe hold a event for new guys only.
Makd it simple one for pistols one for rifles.

Have the event start early but the comp later . So the shooter can get free lessons advice tips etc . So when the comp start there not deer in headlights going um um um what do I do ..

I'm sorry if I don't make sense. Or became confusing. I wanna do some shooting matches but I have no idea where to start.
So I've been just going to the free range at Martin burns and trying to teach my self the best I can.



Send it!

 

[CadillacGolfer]

As far as point #1, is there anyway to handicap matches, like golf does, so a noob can compete with better shooters? Or doesn't IDPA have different tiers based on skill level, so that those around the same skill level compete against each other? I'm completely new to shooting, so if this is way off base and non-sensical, sorry

 

[speedy]

Who in New England runs, organizes, and schedule matches (any type or all type off matches) through out the year?Are they posted on a specific website? Is the CMP/NRA the controlling body Of the sport?

 

[jasons]

I think after some of the school shootings they wouldn't be welcomed in schools....

I'm from ma
I'm a new gun owner going on about 4 months of having my ltc-a.i used to shoot with my dad before he split . But I'm pretty good with my 1911 and rifles if its zeroed in.

I have the problem of not really knowing any one that shoots. I know two people and there way greener then me so when they come with me I'm teaching them...my dad, I basicaly just started chilling with after not seeing him for 20 years is kinda a fudd, thinks its against mass law that I'm building a AR-15 and from shooting with him the one time I have, I know more about guns and better at.

I want to learn to shoot better. And would love to get into some events.
The problem is how to learn. Yeah there's some classes ,sig comes to mind. I'm a pretty shy guy and I personally would feel uncomfortable learning in big groups . afraid I'd ask some thing dumb. I'm looking to join a club but a lot of them you need to know some one, be a member of the NRA etc etc. so in mass it's like ok after spending x amount for your ltc and dealing with alot of bull. You gotta go spend a bunch more on different guns. Member fees to this group ,a club etc . and Work your way into a club etc .

So as a new shooter you have to deal with so much stuff. Just to be able to shoot for the most part. Then you gotta learn to become better at shooting, $$$ for classes etc, cause you dont wanna look like a fool, or have brass balls and be able to approach some one at a club for tips or advice. Then how do you learn to be in the event, like how it works etc what do you need....For me this is gonna be the hard part since I'm pretty Dam shy and feel so awkward talking to random people I don't know.

As a new shooter from mass it's pretty over whelming .

The real question not how to get new shooters . But how can you make it easier for them to start.

Maybe hold a event for new guys only.
Makd it simple one for pistols one for rifles.

Have the event start early but the comp later . So the shooter can get free lessons advice tips etc . So when the comp start there not deer in headlights going um um um what do I do ..

I'm sorry if I don't make sense. Or became confusing. I wanna do some shooting matches but I have no idea where to start.
So I've been just going to the free range at Martin burns and trying to teach my self the best I can.



Send it!

Sounds like the CMP clinics that most clubs with a highpower program run at least once a year. I think Woburn Sportsmans just did one last weekend. There's one down in CT next month. Nashua does a really good one.

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/matchUpcomingSearch.cgi?designation=CLINIC

The problem is, like Pat was saying, that these clinics are lucky to get 1 or 2 new shooters out of every 50 that try the clinic. I'm not sure why that is - maybe we don't do enough talking about Paul Revere at them?

- - - Updated - - -

As far as point #1, is there anyway to handicap matches, like golf does, so a noob can compete with better shooters? Or doesn't IDPA have different tiers based on skill level, so that those around the same skill level compete against each other? I'm completely new to shooting, so if this is way off base and non-sensical, sorry

Yes, the CMP does do a handicap system. http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/handicapLookup.cgi

 

[jasons]

Who in New England runs, organizes, and schedule matches (any type or all type off matches) through out the year?Are they posted on a specific website? Is the CMP/NRA the controlling body Of the sport?

The CMP and NRA are two separate bodies that have their own match rules, etc. The rules are very similar and for the most part all of us shoot both CMP and NRA matches.

For this area, http://massmatches.com is probably the best "one stop shopping" to see what matches are scheduled. You can also go to the individual club websites or the CMP. (Not sure if the NRA has a consolidated match calendar or not.)

CMP site: http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/matchUpcomingSearch.cgi?designation=EICRIFLE

Example of a club site: http://readinghighpower.com and http://www.nfga.org/highpower/highpower.html

 

[mac1911]

As for the cmp clinics/intro to cmp at our club we have 2 per month. I will say theres seldom a new shooters all the time. More or less the same 8 to 10 guys. I try like hell to get shooters and non shooters to go to these. I tell them "all you have to do is show up" guns ammo instruction tips are all provided.
The gentlemen that run it will make sure you get a fudemental class. Thats where it ends no preasure no "match". Again why so few people dont return is a unknown. Im going to quess cost and just not interesting enough....im a self challenger I could care less about beating someone I need to beat myself..I will ask a few non returners as I bump into them, why they dont return. You dont even need a FID to shoot these types of matches.

 

[PatMcD]

I think the time involved is a huge factor, especially for those with families. Shooting has to be a really important part of your life to take off an entire weekend day. And that's just the actual shooting part; then figure in loading ammo, practice, etc..

One of the problem I see with clinics, the ones I've been a part of up here in Maine anyways, is the tolerance for what is allowed for people to shoot. Some guys show up with SKS's, AK's, 1917's, Enfields, all sorts of junk, because that's what they have and they want to shoot it. I always offer my rifle and ammo and tell them to use it but nobody ever does. Then they wonder why it's so hard. If everybody shot AR's it would be a lot easier to coach them.

Brian, I like the idea of practice/instruction sessions on Saturdays.

 

[bpm990d]

Just have to pick some dates and find a range.

B

 

[[cerberus]]

I am a bit late to this thread, but I know exactly what you are talking about. I started shooting on a junior shooting league with a local gun club one night a week. Of all the people I met there, I do not think anyone is still shooting anymore. If it wasn't for my parents hearing about it and getting me involved I never would have known about it, and if it wasn't for them being so involved and backing me up I never would have gone any further because I got to a point where I got better then my equipment at the time.

You have to expect that for every 10 shooters you may get, only 1 or 2 are going to stay and progress. What I would like to see, and would be willing to help set up, would be a semi regional shooting league between different shooting clubs. I know Sanford and North Berwick do not do ANY type of inter club competition, and I think that is what will get you going. If there was a league set up with a match once a month, and each club would hold their own practice/training sessions weekly. If it could be geared so that there could be a parent/child team I think you would get a lot of activity, and would have a better chance of getting shooters who stay around longer.

Just to keep costs down, you could make it a mini high power match using .22 rifles at adjusted ranges. If you can make it fun, and make it pretty cheap to start I think you will have a higher success rate setting the hooks.

 

[VIzsladad]

Just have to pick some dates and find a range.

B

I can help with that, I have the dates for 2013 for Capitol City, and I use the first one as a beginners clinic, I would have no problem giving it to use as a shooters clinic for all or advanced shooters.

How does April 27th sound. Just let me know


Dave

 

[headednorth]

I think thats true for a lot of things, no? People try something and arent too crazy about it so they dont go back. Others think its ok and may do it for a bit and then drift away. Theres a limited number who are going to be hooked and stay for the long run, regardless of whether its shooting, bowling, or whatever.

I would think the object should be to raise the number of people who give it a try so that even if the the percentage of people who get hooked is the same, the total number is larger and you can grow the sport quicker or at least keep pace with the people who are leaving.

 

[mac1911]

I feel we/them/us need to get out side of the box(club) posting at clubs or meetings is almost pointless at our club. its the same 30 people at the meetings. first shot and women outdoors is about the obly thing getting new shooters into our club

 

[Business]

I used to judge snowboarding competitions through the USASA they continuously have record turn outs for 1 main reason. Tons of divisions. If the 20 14 year olds always went up against the 20 23 year olds they would always be crushed. USASA has almost 20 divisions and an open class. I'm not saying create age bracets but maybe beginner, intermidiate, advanced, and open class. That way the guy who is starting out doen't get crush competitivly and emotionaly by the guy who has been doing it forever.

 

[bpm990d]

Our biggest problem is keeping shooters that we have. The vast majority are in the Master/High Master category. They participate for a couple of years and then move on. I'd like to focus on giving those people the tools they need to be even more competitive and improving some of the camaraderie. I don't think people get out of the sport because someone else is doing great, but they leave because they plateau at a certain level and can't improve their scores.

B

 

[G Smith]

I haven't done any competitive stuff in forever and I've never done highpower but I'd love to get involved. My issue is I don't know too much about it. I'm a fast learner but I'm more of an active learner and with all the information available I don't want to learn the wrong information. If someone was willing to "Take me under their wing" so to speak to at least get me started and maybe let me tag along with them to a match or practice I would find that most beneficial.

What State / Town are you located in?

If you are anywhere near; Reading Mass, Scarborough Maine or Nashua NH you will have more than a few people willing to help get you going and beyond.

George
www.nfga.org

 

[Jasper]

15min in which direction? (i'm in saugus, also 15min from RR&R). If you wanna give it a try, let me know. I made the same offer to jasons in 2010, and he now holds a master classification, and has become one of the regulars.

 

[jasons]

15min in which direction? (i'm in saugus, also 15min from RR&R). If you wanna give it a try, let me know. I made the same offer to jasons in 2010, and he now holds a master classification, and has become one of the regulars.

Sucker.

 

[Jasper]

Sucker.

never said it was one of my brightest ideas, but the ends justify the means....right?

 

[Coyote33]

Pat, I think we just need to do the field of dreams strategy. If we do it they will come.

"They" being "who"? I think you need to sprinkle seeds, and let them grow. My thought is you need a hundred Jon Greens starting kids out with .22 rimfire in scouts, clubs, and schools. Eventually, they grow into other disciplines. This is coming from someone who knows nothing about these competitions, but a little about "grassroots". Best of luck to you!

As far as point #1, is there anyway to handicap matches, like golf does, so a noob can compete with better shooters? Or doesn't IDPA have different tiers based on skill level, so that those around the same skill level compete against each other? I'm completely new to shooting, so if this is way off base and non-sensical, sorry

FANTASTIC idea!

 

[jasons]

"They" being "who"? I think you need to sprinkle seeds, and let them grow. My thought is you need a hundred Jon Greens starting kids out with .22 rimfire in scouts, clubs, and schools. Eventually, they grow into other disciplines. This is coming from someone who knows nothing about these competitions, but a little about "grassroots". Best of luck to you!



FANTASTIC idea!

I think all of us are involved in a Jr's program at some level. Jasper and me run a small one out of a pistol club. George is involved in beginner clinics throughout the shooting year. Brian went the extra mile and spawned an entire whistler boy team all by himself. (Well, not ALL by himself....)

The challenge is that we probably see less than 10% "conversion" from these beginner programs to regular competition. Even when we get a good kid with talent he inevitably hits a certain age where cars and girls are more interesting than offhand practice and he fades away. Not every kid, but I think it's safe to say most kids.

Honestly the demographic that I think we need to focus the most on is late 20's / early 30's men and women who have had some sort of shooting exposure in the past. Military guys transitioning to civilian life for example, or people from other shooting disciplines.

 

[Coyote33]

Good point. You should get in contact with someone who can spread your information internally within their groups.

 

[Jasper]

FANTASTIC idea!

they already have there. you shoot/compete by classification (marksman, sharpshooter, expert, master, high master). there's still overall match winners in NRA matches (top overall / top service rifle / top match rifle), and winners of each individual classification. CMP, there are no classification. gold/silver/bronze for top 3 finishers, and LEG/EIC points for top 1/2/3/however many non-distinguished competitors.

there is no "handicapping" the classifications any more than they already do. to "handicap" CMP matches would cheapen the integrity of the distinguished riflemans badge for those who have worked their asses off to get it.

Winchester Woburn line. When do you usually go.

so you're ~ 20-25min from me. it's winter now, so matches are done...but we still do an indoor/outdoor winter offhand league...every sunday morning. come down and check it out. I wont be shooting for a couple of weeks (JUST has Lasik done yesterday), but I'll likely be there just to hang out.

 

[jasons]

Winchester Woburn line. When do you usually go.

New screen name?

Rifle season is pretty much done at this point, but we do have a winter offhand league going on. Sunday mornings, shooting starts at 9:00. Feel free to swing by and check it out.