Need advice on casting

[gws1063]

I'm planning to embark on handloading for some old obscure rounds and I'm ready to try my hand at casting bullets. I have the first molds I need and I could use some advice. Downstream from now, I gather that I'll probably be looking at something like an RCBS Pro Melt furnace, but where do I start?

The bullets are in the 400-500 grain range, and I've heard third-hand that pouring from a ladle is not the best thing to do for such large bullets.

Anyone care to offer any practical advice or pointers to resources before I just buy a small pot and have a go at it?

Also, if anyone has any old equipment they might consider selling, I'm in the market for more than just advice.

-Gary

 

[highlander]

Oddly enough I have a Lyman 20 lb pot I'm not using if you're interested. I've been casting for at least 20 years and have used several companies equipment and IMHO I like RCBS,Redding and LBT also have a couple of molds by Rapine that are very nice as well.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I'm going to start at some point too - also 400-500 grain bullets (but for a handgun).

I'll be picking your brain in the future as it looks like you're getting a head start on me.

 

[highlander]

If you have mold blocks pm me and perhaps on a Sat afternoon you can come over and I can show you the basics. What calibers do you want to cast and are you casting for black powder or smokeless? Black powder needs an alloy of 1 part tin 20 parts lead where smokeless can use wheel weights to linotype. First step I would suggest is to get the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual I think it's still in print Read it once or twice and then the fun starts.

 

[gerrycaruso]

bullet casting

I've been casting bullets for about 35 years. Now that handgun bullets are so cheap to buy ,I cast large rifle bullets most of the time because they're still expensive. I don't want to clutter up the board with alot of info but if you'd like to learn from my mistakes, You can reach me at 978-692-4173

 

[BIG GUN]

I've been casting bullets for about 35 years. Now that handgun bullets are so cheap to buy ,I cast large rifle bullets most of the time because they're still expensive. I don't want to clutter up the board with alot of info but if you'd like to learn from my mistakes, You can reach me at 978-692-4173

The problem with commercial bullets is that they are to hard, and dont obturate in most pistols. I live in your town and have been casting for 50+ years. Accurate 5744 is the best smokeless powder for loading all the old timers. Wheel weights work for most applications other than over around 1500 fps. in rifle applications.

 

[highlander]

Fixxah if you are watching please send me your e mail directly I'm not having any luck trying to contact you via NES e mail or PMs

 

[gws1063]

Thanks, folks.

I'll track down a copy of the Lyman book and start reading so I can ask semi-intelligent questions. After that, I'll get in touch with highlander and gerry. Thanks, guys!

The first project is a .577 Snider. Most advice I've seen recommends 20:1 lead/alloy for the bullets, loaded over Hodgdon 777.

-Gary

 

[Gammon]

Commercial casting alloy for pistols is 92/6/2. 92% lead, 2% tin and 6% antimony. This is good to about 1200 fps.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Commercial casting alloy for pistols is 92/6/2. 92% lead, 2% tin and 6% antimony. This is good to about 1200 fps.

Any idea how much faster you can go with gas checked bullets? Also, does the presence of a gas check make the actual lead alloy not as important?

I'd like to cast heavy bullets for my .460 and .500 for velocities up to about 1700fps.

 

[highlander]

Gas check bullets can be driven up to 2000 fps depending on the alloy used. Lyman No 2 alloy,92% lead,4% antimony and 2% tin will work as will linotype or heat treated wheel weights. No 2 alloy is 15 on the Brinell scale,linotype is 22 and heat treated ww can be as high as 26-28. To heat treat ww size first,but do not lube, place in oven at 450 degrees for 1/2 hr then quench in cold water. Lube using a die .001 larger then bullet diameter.

 

[BIG GUN]

Any idea how much faster you can go with gas checked bullets? Also, does the presence of a gas check make the actual lead alloy not as important?

I'd like to cast heavy bullets for my .460 and .500 for velocities up to about 1700fps.

I get up to 2000 fps in rifles with gas check bullets using lino as an alloy.
Brinnell is 22 and you can temper them even harder.
I have gone up to 125g of H4831 behind a 405g cast bullet in a 460 WBY. but it did start to lead.

 

[Gammon]

Any idea how much faster you can go with gas checked bullets? Also, does the presence of a gas check make the actual lead alloy not as important?

I'd like to cast heavy bullets for my .460 and .500 for velocities up to about 1700fps.

Sorry, but I used to cast pistol bullets commercially and have no experience with velocities over 1200 fps. This thread has, however, brought to mind the movie "Quigley Down Under", a great flick. When he ran out of ammo, Quigley was forced to improvise and used paper to fit a smaller diameter bullet to the bore of his rifle for his reloads. This technique "paper patching", I believe was popular in the past. It might be a great way to fit a cast bullet to your gun's bore and eliminate leading.

 

[gerrycaruso]

gas checks

I used to load gas checked bullets in .30/30 and .30/06 when my son was about 12 so he could shoot those rifles. The velocity for both was 1700 fps.The bullets where cast from wheel weights and I got great accuracy and no leading. Bullet diameter and bullet lube are very important.I also load for the .500 and have found h4227 to be a great powder for heavy loads.Good Luck.

 

[highlander]

Sorry, but I used to cast pistol bullets commercially and have no experience with velocities over 1200 fps. This thread has, however, brought to mind the movie "Quigley Down Under", a great flick. When he ran out of ammo, Quigley was forced to improvise and used paper to fit a smaller diameter bullet to the bore of his rifle for his reloads. This technique "paper patching", I believe was popular in the past. It might be a great way to fit a cast bullet to your gun's bore and eliminate leading.

I've never used paper patch bullets but from what little I've read on the subject the idea works well but can be a royal PITA to do.I could see using PP for an odd sized bore and you didn't want to spend the money for a custom mold block. Gas checks can be a pain to put on but if you wish to push a bullet at mach 2 velocities it's the way to go.

 

[Nickle]

Any idea how much faster you can go with gas checked bullets? Also, does the presence of a gas check make the actual lead alloy not as important?

I'd like to cast heavy bullets for my .460 and .500 for velocities up to about 1700fps.

No problem. 2200 to 2400 fps has been done, with the right lube, right powder and HARD bullets.

Using straight wheel weights and water quenching will probably be the best for you. One method has been mentioned, but another is to just drop them out of the mold into a bucket of water with a towel in the bottom (cushioning). Not as good a job, but much easier. The down side is the hardness decreases with age of the bullets.

If you can get it, Linotype is good stuff. I've got enough that I can cast bullets out of pure Linotype. Way to hard for a pistol, even a high velocity pistol like those Big S&W's. Of course, I'm using them in semi-auto rifles, like the M1 and such. Bolt guns, too.

Gas checks are optional, but I'd use them in ANY thing over 2000 fps, may be even a bit less. I don't use them on my pistol bullets, but I'm just doing .45ACP, 9mm and 7.62x38R (Nagant revolver) for pistol bullets. At the shop, we usually don't use gas checks, as we stick to calibers where it's smart or needed, along with handgun calibers.

 

[bob68]

hopefully i have enough lead bars around to last me many yrs of casting.........mine are already to melt and cast as the mixing was done yrs ago. a friend and i used to rake the rifle and pistol ranges down and take home about 30 lbs of lead home each yr. between us we have about 100 lbs each left over. hardened already too. i use this for my .45 the 230 grain rn comes out weighing approximately 253 grains after being gas checked and sized and lubed.

 

[BIG GUN]

Most range scrap is made up of 22 rimfire and the cores of jacketed ammo. This tends to yield a brinnel of 6-8. Quite soft but works fine in making 45 acp, 38 spcl. moderate velocity ammo. Not good for 9mm, 357mag. 40s&w type hot loads.l I use 1-20 Tin/lead for low velocity big bores and pure lino w/ gas checks on anything over 1800fps from anything 22-45cal.
For front loaders, pure lead is the only way to go.
I use either range scrap or pure lead when casting sabots for a 12ga. slug gun.

 

[Gammon]

hopefully i have enough lead bars around to last me many yrs of casting.........mine are already to melt and cast as the mixing was done yrs ago. a friend and i used to rake the rifle and pistol ranges down and take home about 30 lbs of lead home each yr. between us we have about 100 lbs each left over. hardened already too. i use this for my .45 the 230 grain rn comes out weighing approximately 253 grains after being gas checked and sized and lubed.

Excessive weight is an indication of higher than normal lead content which will mean a soft bullet. An extremely hard alloy will yield a bullet weighing less than 230gr out of a 230gr mold. Range lead can be a good source of lead, but not necessarily hard alloy for casting. Wheel weights can be a problem because there is no set formula; they can vary quite a bit in hardness.

The best example I can give is the problems I had when first casting commercially. I ordered a ton of the standard alloy (92/6/2) and picked it up at the smelter.

The first problem I encountered was that the alloy wouldn't work in my casting machine; it was behaving as if I had the temperature in the pots set way too high. I finally got the machine to work by reducing the temperature settings far below the MFRs recommendations, 650 deg instead of 775. Now I was cooking, pumping out cast bullets at 2400 rounds per hour!

The next problem occured when I weighed a cast bullet out of a 200gr SWC mold. It weighed only 175gr. The smelter had sold me pure linotype instead of the alloy I had ordered. The increased amount of tin and antimony reduced the weight of the cast bullet by 25gr. In order to get the finished bullet weight up yo 200gr I had to mix the linotype 50/50 with pure lead. The harder the bullet, the less it will weigh.

The problem with the casting machine was caused by the extremely hard alloy. Oddly, the harder the lead alloy, the lower its melting temperature. Pure lead melts at about 800 deg F, commercial casting alloy (92/6/2) melts at about 775 deg F. The linotype I was sold melted at about 650 deg. Casting machines are designed to run with alloy just above its melting point. If you heat the alloy too far above its melting point, it becomes more liquid and splashes rather than pouring smoothly, causing an incredible mess that you have to clean up with a propane torch. Ah, the pleasures of bullet casting.

 

[highlander]

Interesting,I was using straight lino for casting and my bullets were coming out 3% lighter than the mold's stated weight,but I use an RCBS pot not an automatic machine that may make the difference. I use a 50/50 lino/ww mixture that ends up at or a little heavier than stated weight on the molds.

 

[BIG GUN]

I use a Saco lead hardness tester that works very well in showing alloy hardness in brinell.
In temperature of alloy, I start at 850 for fluxing, in order to make sure the components will mix properly. Then I back down until the bullets drop out shiny with no wrinkles. That usually ends up between 650&700 degree's.
I use an RCBS bottom pour furnace.

 

[Gammon]

Interesting,I was using straight lino for casting and my bullets were coming out 3% lighter than the mold's stated weight,but I use an RCBS pot not an automatic machine that may make the difference. I use a 50/50 lino/ww mixture that ends up at or a little heavier than stated weight on the molds.

There are different grades of linotype with different alloys.

 

[WILDCATT]

loading

I just shot my 1903 springfield with LEE .312-clt-160 gr WW and 13 gr RED DOT.4 touching and fith I flipped 1" out.no sizing and a gas check because it uses them.I also shoot a modern bond plain base the same.crony says 1680 fps.