National reciprocity bill

[cekim]

Should we have some restrictions or is every breathing person fair game? This would get tricky.
90% of the population are not trained gun gurus like NESers...

You may not abridge someone's civil rights without due process... The burden of proof is on the state. The accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

If they are too dangerous to have a gun, they are too dangerous to release from jail - the sentence for any crime should make this clear...

There are no reasonable restrictions outside due process as far as I am concerned.

 

[EddieCoyle]

So are we completely OK with having EVERYONE ccw? Past felons, they paid their debt to society... Released mental patients; say many threatened to kill people out of uncontrollable rage?

Why do you think a law will keep any of these people from carrying?

 

[SheepDog_B]

How does Vermont do it?

I'm just mentioning it since I believe many folks don't consider the spectrum of everyone.

You may not abridge someone's civil rights without due process... The burden of proof is on the state. The accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

If they are too dangerous to have a gun, they are too dangerous to release from jail - the sentence for any crime should make this clear...

There are no reasonable restrictions outside due process as far as I am concerned.

I concur, once your debit it paid to society, you are a "free" man...

Why do you think a law will keep any of these people from carrying?

That's not what I was thinking or implying sir.

 

[Climbnsink]

I'm OK with everyone not currently incarcerated being able to CCW and buy whatever machine gun strikes their fancy. You aren't suggesting gun laws make us safer are you?
Iirc VT allows convicted felons to posses blackpowder firearms and there is a hunting exception for felons as well(might be blackpowder hunting, not sure.)

Ja.

So are we completely OK with having EVERYONE ccw? Past felons, they paid their debt to society... Released mental patients; say many threatened to kill people out of uncontrollable rage?

Should we have some restrictions or is every breathing person fair game? This would get tricky.
90% of the population are not trained gun gurus like NESers...

 

[Dench]

The Second Amendment should be one's license to carry.

But thats not the case in many places, making this bill a step in the right direction by forcing states to recognize the Bill of Rights.

 

[Terminator03]

I f-ing showed you how wrong you were about THAT last time we went around this. Evidently you have learned NOTHING and don't understand why this attempt to fix YOUR shitty REGIONAL problem pisses us off so much.

The driver license compact is a VOLUNTARY agreement between states. There is NO FEDERAL LAW requiring that one state accept another's driver's license. Yet because you can't unf*ck your corner of the world, you want use federal power where it doesn't belong to fix the "problem" for you.


THAT IS A MATTER FOR STATES TO DECIDE ON THEIR OWN. WHY CAN'T YOU GET WHAT LIMITED FEDERAL POWER MEANS THROUGH YOUR G-D HEAD?

Woah, settle down there chief! Just because I understand your personal situation does not mean that it applies to myself, or even any other people on this forum. Just remember this is NES, and with the exception of VT, and NH, this would benefit just about every member on this entire site for the most part (and it would even benefit them if they left their "free state")! I also can guarantee that if your beloved OH was to pass legislation similar to ours in the NE, then you too would be in favor of something like this! Oh wait, maybe you would be willing deal with it, just so you didn't run the risk of possibly affecting someone in another part of the country - right?

 

[piman]

I f-ing showed you how wrong you were about THAT last time we went around this. Evidently you have learned NOTHING and don't understand why this attempt to fix YOUR shitty REGIONAL problem pisses us off so much.

The driver license compact is a VOLUNTARY agreement between states. There is NO FEDERAL LAW requiring that one state accept another's driver's license. Yet because you can't unf*ck your corner of the world, you want use federal power where it doesn't belong to fix the "problem" for you.


THAT IS A MATTER FOR STATES TO DECIDE ON THEIR OWN. WHY CAN'T YOU GET WHAT LIMITED FEDERAL POWER MEANS THROUGH YOUR G-D HEAD?

Wow! The second amendment is in a federal document. Shall we then say that it isn't very important? Come on, all that he is suggesting is that if your home state thinks it's ok for you to CCW then other States should respect that right. He isn't asking for MA laws to be re-written to allow for easier licensing or any thing. In fact this would end the need for non-resident licenses, or at least the way I read it.

As for the comment on who to license etc. that doesn't belong in this thread, IMHO.

 

[Terminator03]

Wow! The second amendment is in a federal document. Shall we then say that it isn't very important? Come on, all that he is suggesting is that if your home state thinks it's ok for you to CCW then other States should respect that right. He isn't asking for MA laws to be re-written to allow for easier licensing or any thing. In fact this would end the need for non-resident licenses, or at least the way I read it.

As for the comment on who to license etc. that doesn't belong in this thread, IMHO.

Exactly Jose, did you even bother to read the proposed bill before jumping back on your high horse? How the f**ck would this affect you in anything but a positive way anyway?

 

[SheepDog_B]

I'm OK with everyone not currently incarcerated being able to CCW and buy whatever machine gun strikes their fancy. You aren't suggesting gun laws make us safer are you?
Iirc VT allows convicted felons to posses blackpowder firearms and there is a hunting exception for felons as well(might be blackpowder hunting, not sure.)

Damn-it I'm not, and I didn't write it. Many are quick to look for an argument. I'll clearly state things mo-betta so people don't drag out the jump-to-conclusions mat.

I'm just bringing to view there are lots of folks with tarnished histories amongst us that I believe most people, including people on here, would be hesitant or weary or possibly in opposition of our 2A right is all. I've had this discussion with many folks, pro 2A, dems, Coup DeVal lovers and a particular libtard I work with that believes it would be "like da wild wild west man" if that were the case. I'm just throwing more wood on the fire.

So I guess I should state that I'm not a f****ng communist even though I live in the Socialist S**te hole of MA for those who already have brought out your jump-to-conclusion mats.

 

[Terminator03]

Damn-it I'm not, and I didn't write it. Many are quick to look for an argument. I'll clearly state things mo-betta so people don't drag out the jump-to-conclusions mat.

I'm just bringing to view there are lots of folks with tarnished histories amongst us that I believe most people, including people on here, would be hesitant or weary or possibly in opposition of our 2A right is all. I've had this discussion with many folks, pro 2A, dems, Coup DeVal lovers and a particular libtard I work with that believes it would be "like da wild wild west man" if that were the case. I'm just throwing more wood on the fire.

So I guess I should state that I'm not a f****ng communist even though I live in the Socialist S**te hole of MA for those who already have brought out your jump-to-conclusion mats.

meh, it would just make for more "target practice" for those who legally carry!

 

[sportycliff]

The Federal Gov't should not be f*cking with State laws. PERIOD!
If your State does not follow the Constitution, take them to court.
If the a*shole judges rule against the Constitution, vote with your feet, or from the rooftops.
If you CHOOSE to stay with the sheeple, expect to be led by the nose like them.
I left MA because I got sick of the whining and bleating of the sheeple, don't be them.

We should be repossessing Federal power, not letting them extend it.
Don't be naive, if the Feds make the States do something it expands their powers...

Now flame away!!

 

[SheepDog_B]

The Federal Gov't should not be f*cking with State laws. PERIOD!
If your State does not follow the Constitution, take them to court.
If the a*shole judges rule against the Constitution, vote with your feet, or from the rooftops.
If you CHOOSE to stay with the sheeple, expect to be led by the nose like them.
I left MA because I got sick of the whining and bleating of the sheeple, don't be them.

We should be repossessing Federal power, not letting them extend it.
Don't be naive, if the Feds make the States do something it expands their powers...

Now flame away!!

Naw, you covered it guy.

 

[Climbnsink]

Bingo.

The Federal Gov't should not be f*cking with State laws. PERIOD!
If your State does not follow the Constitution, take them to court.
If the a*shole judges rule against the Constitution, vote with your feet, or from the rooftops.
If you CHOOSE to stay with the sheeple, expect to be led by the nose like them.
I left MA because I got sick of the whining and bleating of the sheeple, don't be them.

We should be repossessing Federal power, not letting them extend it.
Don't be naive, if the Feds make the States do something it expands their powers...

Now flame away!!

 

[Boghog1]

this should be the only required permit required, and it should be honored in all states, countries planets etc...

The Right to bear arms is not something given to us by the constitution it is a natural right

 

[Terminator03]

this should be the only required permit required, and it should be honored in all states, countries planets etc...

The Right to bear arms is not something given to us by the constitution it is a natural right

While I'm in total agreement, that ship has sailed inmo, because the bulk of the people allowed it to happen. Not a damn thing we can do about it either, because like it, or not, we ARE the minority, and the more we try to be convincing about the rights to have guns, carry, etc., the more we look like crazy extremists to the masses, unfortunately. I go through this on a smaller scale even in my own house with my own wife at times. She is starting to think of me as one of those "gun loonies", and unfortunately, that is how we are are mostly viewed outside of our pro-gun community. Each and every time some idiot has a ND like that gunshow discussion today, or Tuscon, or fill in your favorite headline, it just further supports their agenda with the masses, which is why it can never go backwards to the time when the BOR was first penned. Times have changed, and unfortunately public opinion along with it.

 

[SheepDog_B]

While I'm in total agreement, that ship has sailed inmo, because the bulk of the people allowed it to happen. Not a damn thing we can do about it either, because like it, or not, we ARE the minority, and the more we try to be convincing about the rights to have guns, carry, etc., the more we look like crazy extremists to the masses, unfortunately. I go through this on a smaller scale even in my own house with my own wife at times. She is starting to think of me as one of those "gun loonies", and unfortunately, that is how we are are mostly viewed outside of our pro-gun community. Each and every time some idiot has a ND like that gunshow discussion today, or Tuscon, or fill in your favorite headline, it just further supports their agenda with the masses, which is why it can never go backwards to the time when the BOR was first penned. Times have changed, and unfortunately public opinion along with it.

Wrong.

 

[Climbnsink]

Terminator03 It is going backwards, other states are freeing up their gun laws. This isn't a national problem needing a federal solution. This is a local problem, fix your local problem, or change your locality. Your perception of gunowners is also a local issue.
Funny story I was in Cambridge listening to a political consultant talk and he showed one of the commercials they had made for a female congressional candidate down South and the commercial had the candidate shooting trap. Some girl was flabbergasted 'you showed a candidate with a gun?' The consultant was funny he said if he had his way he would have had the candidate shooting live birds not clays. Iirc the candidate was a democrat.

 

[xtry51]

While I'm in total agreement, that ship has sailed inmo, because the bulk of the people allowed it to happen. Not a damn thing we can do about it either, because like it, or not, we ARE the minority, and the more we try to be convincing about the rights to have guns, carry, etc., the more we look like crazy extremists to the masses, unfortunately. I go through this on a smaller scale even in my own house with my own wife at times. She is starting to think of me as one of those "gun loonies", and unfortunately, that is how we are are mostly viewed outside of our pro-gun community. Each and every time some idiot has a ND like that gunshow discussion today, or Tuscon, or fill in your favorite headline, it just further supports their agenda with the masses, which is why it can never go backwards to the time when the BOR was first penned. Times have changed, and unfortunately public opinion along with it.

It helps to remember the Founding Fathers were also the minority.

 

[Terminator03]

Wrong.

please explain why I am wrong. It seems to me that new legislation is enacted every year, and it never seems to be in a positive manner from our personal perspective, so I would be interested to hear what your take on this is.

 

[Terminator03]

It helps to remember the Founding Fathers were also the minority.

True, but things were way less sophisticated back then, and you could with relative ease get an angry mob together with their muskets and make a stand. We no longer live in that world unfortunately.

 

[Terminator03]

Terminator03 It is going backwards, other states are freeing up their gun laws. This isn't a national problem needing a federal solution. This is a local problem, fix your local problem, or change your locality. Your perception of gunowners is also a local issue.
Funny story I was in Cambridge listening to a political consultant talk and he showed one of the commercials they had made for a female congressional candidate down South and the commercial had the candidate shooting trap. Some girl was flabbergasted 'you showed a candidate with a gun?' The consultant was funny he said if he had his way he would have had the candidate shooting live birds not clays. Iirc the candidate was a democrat.

That is a great story, and I certainly hope you are right. It's my theory that Obama will try to go for broke on his anti gun agenda when he realizes he stands no chance of another term, so I'm not holding my breath on that...

 

[xtry51]

True, but things were way less sophisticated back then, and you could with relative ease get an angry mob together with their muskets and make a stand. We no longer live in that world unfortunately.

The only thing that has changed is the willingness of people to do it. There's absolutely no other difference. Many here won't even consider civil rights era tactics.

 

[MichaelJR]

We need a rand paul to get in office....and have him shove an executive order down their throat....every politician and police that has ever restricted the constitution...be brought up on charges for being enemies of the people.

We can all dream right?

 

[piman]

Terminator03 It is going backwards, other states are freeing up their gun laws. This isn't a national problem needing a federal solution. This is a local problem, fix your local problem, or change your locality. Your perception of gunowners is also a local issue.

Why do we keep going back to a local vs national problem? Say someone lives in VT and can CCW without an issue, then if this were the law, he would be able to CCW in MA. Simple. Yes, some in MA might have a problem with that and in fact may try to pass laws against that. MA residents, GOAL etc. would then be involved and so on. Question is why would VT care?

From a federal law perspective think of this as the federal govt saying the second amendment can be licensed by states but is otherwise recognized nationwide.

Less laws no laws would all be great but that isn't reality...

 

[sportycliff]

True, but things were way less sophisticated back then, and you could with relative ease get an angry mob together with their muskets and make a stand. We no longer live in that world unfortunately.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Happening in the Mideast right now...








and they're not as heavily armed.

 

[Bill Nance]

Repeat after me:

"What I think SHOULD be my right, isn't the same thing as what the law SAYS is my right. "


There is no constitutional right to CCW. We all wish there was, but until the courts rule otherwise, that right doesn't exist outside our heads.

The federal government has no authority, indeed is EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN from interfering in these matters by the 10th amendment. If the people of a state want to mandate pink cars or anything else that's not a direct violation of existing law, they get to do so. This is called Federalism. The FEDS don't get to tell the people of Mass. or WA State or Podunk, Arkansas how things are going to work in their communities. Don't on the one hand bitch about over-arching federal government and with the other cry for MORE interference on state's affairs.

 

[Dench]

I think its entertaining to see how a lot of people here react to this law.

Several states refuse to recognize 2A. The federal .gov forcing the state to recognize your right to do whatever with firearms should not be lumped into "less laws is better".

Clearly, places like MA are going to always do things against 2A, and to me, its very nice to see the federal gov bully the state into doing something constitutional.

Sure, big .gov sucks 99% of the time, but when it forces rouge states in the correct direction, its definitely a great thing to me.

Id rather have this bill pass then some gay romantic notion of "less laws, please"

sure, even having a gun license is bullshit, but having to get out of state ones is even more bullshit, which this law would prevent. Ill take the partial BS over the double.

 

[cekim]

Id rather have this bill pass then some gay romantic notion of "less laws, please"

The "gay romantic notion" is quite the opposite. That government can solve all your problems.

Of course, there is anal sex involved with government helping you, but its not consensual...

Not "less laws please," but "LESS LAWS NOW !@#$IT"...

 

[Dench]

if it takes the federal .gov to protect our rights then im going to support legislation that does so.

 

[Climbnsink]

Say this passes, say it works, we can all switch to VT DLs and carry willy nilly anywhere. Guess what happens when the other team gets the ball? Perfect setup for a national gun license. I know some people here would love a national license. Some of us, that live in or will live in free states would rather not.