My call to Finneran's Forum - Virginia Tech

[USMA-82]

I don't usually listen to Felon Finneran, but I happened to tune in today as he was discussing the VT shooting. My points:

1. There is a cultural sickness in the US right now that needs to be addressed. It is a result of the violence in TV and video games, and other factors that have degraded our children's sense of right and wrong.

2. The police will always be one step behind. They are wonderful folks who train for this sort of thing, and put their lives on the line, but there will always be a "lag time" that will allow these types of shootings to occur.

3. This is not an isolated incident - it WILL happen again, next week, next month or next year.

Given these points, my temporary solution:

Do what the airlines did. When 9/11 happened, they started putting Air Marshalls on planes. Our colleges and universities should recruit "Campus Marshalls" from the school populace to deal with these situations. They could be police going to school, ex-military returning to college, or other like-minded folks who could make a difference. The program would be completely anonymous, and anyone who's participation is exposed would be dropped from the program. The concept is to have sheepdogs in amongst the sheep.

Finneran's counter was that college is mostly seventeen-year-olds, and the concept would not work as well as on airlines, where Marshalls can "blend in." I disagreed, saying that older folks are returning to college, and the student population is much more diverse than in the past.

My 2 cents - from a parent with two kids currently in college.

Ken

 

[dixidawg]

I heard you on the ride to work. Well done, although he still doesn't get it.

 

[Lugnut]

My points:

1. There is a cultural sickness in the US right now that needs to be addressed. It is a result of the violence in TV and video games, and other factors that have degraded our children's sense of right and wrong.

2. The police will always be one step behind. They are wonderful folks who train for this sort of thing, and put their lives on the line, but there will always be a "lag time" that will allow these types of shootings to occur.

3. This is not an isolated incident - it WILL happen again, next week, next month or next year.

I agree 100%. We need to have stronger values and we don't. I'm not that old but it appears we have a problem in society. Someone posted some stats about the Japanese and how their violent crime rates are so low.. because they have a high level of respect for their people. I don't know if it's true but clearly we don't have a firearm problem... we have a value problem in this country. Ironically the shooter killed over 30 people because of what he thought was the rich kids' poor values.

 

[dwarven1]

Strangely enough, although I can agree with the lack of morals and values, I'm also seeing an increase in young men wanting to join the FreeMasons, and honestly, they cite things like wanting to improve themselves and be of service to their fellow man as reasons to join.

When I was 18, I think that anyone who said that with a straight face would have been laughed out of school. Of course, I went to a private high school filled mostly with kids with way more money than sense. (out of a class of 99, 4 didn't graduate and two died the summer after we graduated - drug OD and drunk driving were the causes.)

So there IS a backlash of SOME good kids out there; I'm just not sure that there are enough of them yet.

 

[Rockrivr1]

If you had mentioned that the laws should be changed to allow conceal carry on campuses and that if some of the students had been armed the body count may not of been as high, he probably would of had a stroke on the air.

Hummmmm

 

[USMA-82]

Heard another reference to "Campus Marshalls" on another talk show this morning. Maybe the idea will spread...

 

[KMaurer]

Finneran's counter was that college is mostly seventeen-year-olds, and the concept would not work as well as on airlines, where Marshalls can "blend in."

Demonstrating that this felon knows no more about college than he does about guns. Having taught at a one of the top state Universities in the country, a large state university and a couple of private colleges, my experience is that the vast majority of all my class sections had at least one student 10 or more years older than that range, often well into their 40s or 50s. As long as the administration didn't make them wear black wingtips and suits, they'd stand out about as much as a drunk at a frat party.

Ken

 

[Mr Weebles]

Finneran's counter was that college is mostly seventeen-year-olds,

Tommy Taxes must have gotten this statistic from the Department of Pulling Random Figures Out of Their Ass (DPRFOTA).

I went to college at 17 and was one of the youngest, if not the youngest, freshmen on campus. I turned 18 in January of my second semester.

Common sense would tell you that the majority of college students are 18+.

 

[Weerd Beard]

Demonstrating that this felon knows no more about college than he does about guns. Having taught at a one of the top state Universities in the country, a large state university and a couple of private colleges, my experience is that the vast majority of all my class sections had at least one student 10 or more years older than that range, often well into their 40s or 50s. As long as the administration didn't make them wear black wingtips and suits, they'd stand out about as much as a drunk at a frat party.

Ken

+1 to that. We called them "Non Traditionals" and there were at least 5-6 of them in the large lectures. Some of the smaller classes I took had none, others I was the only person under 30.

Still this being Central Maine, all they would need to do is lift the "Gun Free Zone" rule and there would be more than pleanty responciple heat on campus. Hell I'm willing to bet each of my classes had at LEAST one CCW that was going against the rule.

We don't need a whole new branch of civil service. We just need some responsible people who can protect the helpless untill the police arrive.

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard

 

[DevX]

1. There is a cultural sickness in the US right now that needs to be addressed. It is a result of the violence in TV and video games, and other factors that have degraded our children's sense of right and wrong.

I grew up playing violent video games and watching violence on TV and the movies. I know the difference between right and wrong. That may be because of GOOD PARENTING though.

Finneran's counter was that college is mostly seventeen-year-olds/QUOTE]

College causes you to become perpetually 17? I am sooo going back…

 

[USMA-82]

We don't need a whole new branch of civil service. We just need some responsible people who can protect the helpless untill the police arrive.

Roger that. The concept would be an internal program, perhaps run by the campus police, that would recruit, train, and monitor the Campus Marshalls. As a financial incentive, perhaps a portion of the tuition could be discounted (say 5%) in exchange for participation.

The critically important factor would be complete secrecy about the identities of the Marshalls. They might be the janitor working down the hall, the student next to you, or even the professor!

I'm certain that this would work - now who has the gonads to give it a try? Well, certainly not in Massachusetts where guns will "always be part of the problem, and never part of the solution."

Of course, we can always just continue to discuss the matter - until it happens again.

 

[Weerd Beard]

The critically important factor would be complete secrecy about the identities of the Marshalls. They might be the janitor working down the hall, the student next to you, or even the professor!

That's what the First "C" in CCW stands for. We don't need to add programs...just subtract worthless laws.

Also note that while I was at U-Maine not a weekend didn't go by without at LEAST one rape of a woman walking on campus. This isn't just against Suicide Psychos, this goes for ALL the benefits of CCW.

-Weer'd Beard

 

[sksguns]

I agree that a secret campus marshall progam would do wonders to prevent issues like this.

It was mentioned that in some classes there was at least one older student in the class...

I agree that the majority of full time college students are between the ages of 18 to 22 with probably more upper classmen in the 21 to 22 year old range. So basically that eliminates half of the student body from getting an ltc becasue they are under the age of 21.

Of those that are 21 and older, they more than likely have zero military training and the last thing on thier mind would be to shoot and perhaps kill another student...not everyone is a Cho.

Most kids these days are brought up in anti households at least in this state Even if you had people willing to get an ltc to do this the paperwork alone is enough to discourage the individual from following through. Then ther is the cost of the traning courses and then the purchase of a firearm itself. Very expensive for most kids in college.

If you had that program I think it should rest with the employees of the institution or a specially trained police force that would take charge in each facility.

Only problem is, and the politicians know it, as inevitable as it is that it will happen again it's not cost effective to implement a government sponsored program to deal with this as these incidents are rare.

The politicans would rather grandstand to abolish the second ammendment using this as this and other events such as this as the catalyst.

 

[SFWriter]

I've pretty much stopped listening to WRKO in the mornings since Finneran came on. I am a part time student at a state school, and at 25 I am usually not even close to the oldest in the class. I'm not sure Marshals are the best answer, but I do think if you have already been entrusted with a CC permit, why do there need to be extra restrictions? Actually, I'd be surprised if there aren't already a few students packing. If it's a choice between a minor gun charge and another 30 dead classmates, what do you expect?

 

[FiveseveN]

The VT killer was an individual. He was afflicted with an individual sickness. He bears individual responsibility. The same goes for any other murderer. The rest of the culture is just fine.

We aren't exactly seeing anything which could be considered a cultural sickness, because if that were the case, we would have mass killings like VT on a weekly basis.

 

[outofbattery]

Simple math should tell anyone that the average age of most traditional college students should be ~ 20 but when non-traditional undergrads and graduate students are averaged in,most schools actually have an overall average age of closer to 26-27.The average age at my college was actually a little over 30 due to the large number of grad students.There are plenty of prior service men and women who would gladly work as Campus Marshalls and they wouldn't stick out like sore thumbs but another solution might be to offer incentives for LEO's to continue their education.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

The VT killer was an individual. He was afflicted with an individual sickness. He bears individual responsibility. The same goes for any other murderer. The rest of the culture is just fine.

We aren't exactly seeing anything which could be considered a cultural sickness, because if that were the case, we would have mass killings like VT on a weekly basis.

Yet, you just posted that you'd support metal detectors at the doors of campus buildings or classrooms.

It IS a cultural sickness and the effects of it are just now manifesting themselves. Look at the proliferation of stupid acts displayed on "You Tube", the program "Jack Ass", ect.
Kids today have a different sense of or complete absence of right and wrong, respect and disrespect, responsibility and irresponsiblity.

This act as most are, was an individual granted, but there are many more out there of the same or similar age, circumstances and value systems.

 

[FiveseveN]

Yet, you just posted that you'd support metal detectors at the doors of campus buildings or classrooms.

I would also be willing to consider mandatory metal detectors for all educational establishments in the country.

I don't really like the metal detector idea, but it is certainly more logical than banning any firearms.

Consideration and support are two different things.

I then went on to say I don't like the idea (metal detectors) but it's better than a gun ban. Did you forget that?

Gun bans are coming. I'm willing to support a lesser evil.

And I still disagree with your cultural sickness drivel. You sound like an old man completely out of touch with today's young adults and youth. Popular culture changes over time.

 

[Cato]

Our colleges and universities should recruit "Campus Marshalls" from the school populace to deal with these situations.

I don't agree with this idea. It follows the concept that only certain classes of people should be armed.

Everyone should be able to be armed at all times if the so choose. I would imagine that a sufficient number of people would choose to carry while at school if they could. This would be the best deterrent to violent crime at schools.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It is not a "minor gun charge" to get caught on campus with a firearm. It is a major Felony and lifetime DQ!

As an undergrad during the Vietnam War, we had a handful of almost 30 year olds in my EE program. Guys who had served in 'Nam and came to school under the GI Bill.

When I taught at Suffolk University's School of Management (1979-80), I had one >40 yo in my BSBA class. Most others had "life experience" (over 22). I recall only one student who was coming to college fresh out of high school. Don't know if it mattered, but the class I taught was evenings.

As a 21 yo, neither I or any of my friends would have been interested in anything to do with firearms. I drove thru Roxbury every day for 6 years, during the race riots (when they were burning blocks of homes/stores down), the day Martin Luther King was murdered, etc. and I thought I was impervious to any risk back then.

Six years later when I started Graduate School, I was very concerned about my personal safety and that of my classmate friends! And I was going to school on Beacon Hill, not in Roxbury. My perspective changed completely once I got married and owned a home.

 

[Pilgrim]

I still disagree with your cultural sickness drivel. You sound like an old man completely out of touch with today's young adults and youth. Popular culture changes over time.

If you don't believe our culture is sick, then you're already infected.

Look around you. No moral direction, being pushed by the Dems. We are dangerously close to a full socialist society. No one is to blame for anything anymore..it's "society's" fault. Everyone is good and those incarcerated can be cured and released to be good citizens again.

I'd go on but I don't have time right now.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Consideration and support are two different things.

I then went on to say I don't like the idea (metal detectors) but it's better than a gun ban. Did you forget that?

Gun bans are coming. I'm willing to support a lesser evil.

And I still disagree with your cultural sickness drivel. You sound like an old man completely out of touch with today's young adults and youth. Popular culture changes over time.

If you call 50 "old", thats debatable. What my age has given me is the wisdom, knowledge, experience and firsthand witness of society's compass needle that has taken a drastic change in direction (for the worse) and it is no more clearly displayed than in the actions and behavior of its youth.
If you think kids today are not different than kids 20, 30 or 40 years ago, you are likely still a kid yourself.....and kidding yourself to boot.

If you think that there is not a cultural sickness among today's youth, 12 to 24 year olds, you are either part of the problem itself or are in complete denial of your surroundings.

"Popular culture" doesn't mean that its "acceptable culture" under any auspecies.

What goes on with kids today is, everyone is playing the "top this" game where the more outrageous an act one commits, the more false fame they receive. They have lost or have never known the difference between fame and infamy. Frankly, they have the terms and there meanings and associations completely reversed and revel in the latter.
Whether this is done out of sheer ignorance or willful deliberation matters not....it does happen and society pays a price for it upon every occurence.

Nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions....in their eyes it's always someone elses fault. Nobody wants to place the blame on people for their actions....that might offend them...oh dear God...we can't do that!!!

Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own security...it's always someone elses job to keep them safe.

These mindsets are a product of taught behavior and are totally against the laws of nature. Even a dog knows when it has done wrong....and yet they might have an advantage over most kids today in that they still have the instinct to defend themselves.
--------------
Back to the metal detectors.....they are a useless, expensive facade and nuisance for all concerned.

People should be able to carry and there should be no "gun free" zones.

As far as gun bans go, let the games begin. If you are willing to sacrifice your rights you deserve what befalls you.