Minnesota Man found guilty of premeditated murder during home invasion....

[EnglishBob]

Seriously man?
If you suspect someone is breaking into your garage while you're at work, it wouldn't even cross your mind to pretend like you were out, while you were actually home to find out who the **** is stealing your shit? Or would you file a police report instead? Maybe they'll protect your and your property.

Nope, I'm going to do my own investigating.
You guys are forgetting that these people INTENTIONALLY are BREAKING INTO HIS HOME. UNINVITED. UNWANTED.

The only part I semi agree with you on is the creepy part, I still don't understand 24 hour wait before he reported it. But that has nothing to do with premeditated murder.

Ok, maybe what I said was confusing.

Investigating != Executing. Did the gang in Scooby Doo execute Old Man Jones because he was haunting/trespassing in the old mansion? NO ! because that would be messed up and super creepy. Although frankly if they had executed Scrappy Doo I would have been fine with that.

Sorry, I realize thats a piss poor argument but so is "They broke into his house, of course he can shoot them like that!" That's akin to saying it's ok to start a bar fight with a guy who punched you out last week. And then using it as justification for shooting him because he started it. AFAIK US Law applies to both places with some modification.

Didn't any of you cowboys watch Shane? The scene with Jack Pallance "Pick up the gun...." BANG! "You saw him, he had a gun." I realize in the gritty 2010s that anti-heros are the rage now adays but he was the bad guy.

 

[inerlogic]

SSS


nowhere in there is there a V for "videotape"

 

[BigTimber]

Sure does sound like the basement equivalent of a tree stand to me, from snacks & water to the camouflage of making the place look unoccupied on purpose.
The prosecutor actually used the tree stand example in the prosecution.

 

[RG617]

Sure does sound like the basement equivalent of a tree stand to me, from snacks & water to the camouflage of making the place look unoccupied on purpose.
The prosecutor actually used the tree stand example in the prosecution.

No surprise. It was the first thing that came to my mind, followed immediately by an ice fishing hut.

 

[GML]

Not much left to add to this thread, but I do believe that the jury was correct in finding him guilty. I also agree that the issue was not him defending his property from burglars, but rather the way he handled the situation once his life was no longer in immediate danger.

 

[rep308]

Always check the British Tabloids for the good stuff:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...zy-year-treating-estate-like-candy-store.html

What the jury DIDN'T hear about veteran who shot burglars dead: Homeowner had befriended teens he killed in his basement - but they were part of gang that drove him crazy for a year by 'treating his estate like a candy store'

...Judge ruled out evidence that Smith not only knew the teens, he had hired them and trusted them
'He fed them dinner, he let them use the facilities,' his close friend Bill Anderson reveals to MailOnline

...Who could explain away a recording of a man, breathless with rage, adrenalin and exertion, standing over a terrified 18-year-old whom he has just shot and calmly saying, ‘Sorry about that,’ as his gun jams, he reloads and then fires again?

Who could hear him refer to the kids as ‘vermin’ and not recoil? Who could hear how he shot them nine times in total – carrying on relentlessly long after any threat had been discharged?

 

[murf4321]

Sure does sound like the basement equivalent of a tree stand to me, from snacks & water to the camouflage of making the place look unoccupied on purpose.

So he made the criminals break into his house? Nonsense. And since when do people hunt from within their homes?

 

[Kicker96FS]

Well, this thread is going exactly where I thought it would.

 

[whacko]

So he made the criminals break into his house? Nonsense. And since when do people hunt from within their homes?

OMG read the whole article.....he put a gun to her chin after the threat was stopped and blew her brains out.

 

[murf4321]

OMG read the whole article.....he put a gun to her chin after the threat was stopped and blew her brains out.

"OMG" she shouldn't have been in HIS HOME, stealing his shit. If I break into someone's house, I'd have to think there's a possibility of a negative outcome. Just a thought.

 

[92G]

Sorry but the only legitimate reason for taking a life is if your own life is threatened (or life of loved one). This man did not operate under such motive but rather sought to take a life.
he gives a bad reputation for all gun owners and he deserves what he got.

i'm sure some would call me a progressive or pacifist which is ridiculous but whatever. the fact remains that while criminals certainly deserve little rights, we do not gain the right to take a life just because someone else is an idiot.

 

[shapiroeric]

Well, this thread is going exactly where I thought it would.

Yes it is.....I will say that after reading the facts I would agree with the Jury's verdict....we could debate this all day with those agreeing and those passionate about an acquittal....

 

[92G]

"OMG" she shouldn't have been in HIS HOME, stealing his shit. If I break into someone's house, I'd have to think there's a possibility of a negative outcome. Just a thought.

if a cop did this, we would all call him a murderer. let's try to keep some standards. the fact that i am law-abiding doesn't make me judge-jury-executioner.

 

[murf4321]

Sorry but the only legitimate reason for taking a life is if your own life is threatened (or life of loved one). This man did not operate under such motive but rather sought to take a life.
he gives a bad reputation for all gun owners and he deserves what he got.

i'm sure some would call me a progressive or pacifist which is ridiculous but whatever. the fact remains that while criminals certainly deserve little rights, we do not gain the right to take a life just because someone else is an idiot.

When he was preparing his apparent "tree stand," he had absolutely no way to know if the next person who broke into his house would be armed or not. If I break into someone's home, I would have to accept any consequences that may arise.

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if a cop did this, we would all call him a murderer. let's try to keep some standards. the fact that i am law-abiding doesn't make me judge-jury-executioner.

Or not. If two thieves broke into an officer's home & were killed during the commission of a crime, I would say the same thing I am now.

 

[whacko]

"OMG" she shouldn't have been in HIS HOME, stealing his shit. If I break into someone's house, I'd have to think there's a possibility of a negative outcome. Just a thought.

Recommend you read more of peoples comemnts before you jump in. "Just a thought". I stated he had every right to shoot someone breaking in. My issue with this nit wit is after he stopped the threat he taunted her.....put a gun to her chin and executed her......that is the issue I have think the guy is therefore a murderer.

 

[murf4321]

Sorry but the only legitimate reason for taking a life is if your own life is threatened (or life of loved one). .

What about Rape? NOt justified to shoot someone if they're raping a wife or gf? Pfffffftttttttttttt.

 

[92G]

When he was preparing his apparent "tree stand," he had absolutely no way to know if the next person who broke into his house would be armed or not. If I break into someone's home, I would have to accept any consequences that may arise.

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Or no. If two thieves broke into an officer's home & were killed during the commission of a crime, I would say the same thing I am now.

So if someone tries to take your wallet, do you just shoot in their general direction then finish them off w a headshot?

i have been mugged at gunpoint twice. Both times by boys probably half my age. I wanted to tear out their throats but instead i handed over all my $$$. I would do it again if I had to. The last thing i want is to be dead or to purposefully kill someone else. No material thing is worth it. Our Creator will bring judgment to such people...it aint my job.

now if gun pointed at my wife or kids, then story changes.

 

[92G]

What about Rape? NOt justified to shoot someone if they're raping a wife or gf? Pfffffftttttttttttt.

Are you suggesting that rape is not life threateing?
i can imagine some rape victims (dead and alive ones) would argue.

 

[murf4321]

So if someone tries to take your wallet, do you just shoot in their general direction then finish them off w a headshot?

If someone broke into my home, & was in my bedroom taking my stuff? I would consider any action I take justified.

i have been mugged at gunpoint twice. Both times by boys probably half my age. I wanted to tear out their throats but instead i handed over all my $$$. I would do it again if I had to. The last thing i want is to be dead or to purposefully kill someone else. No material thing is worth it. Our Creator will bring judgment to such people...it aint my job. now if gun pointed at my wife or kids, then story changes.

I probably would have done the same thing in your situation due to the fact that probability would likely dictate I'm better off surviving by doing so. However, had you chose option B., I would have said that you were justified.

 

[92G]

Recommend you read more of peoples comemnts before you jump in. "Just a thought". I stated he had every right to shoot someone breaking in. My issue with this nit wit is after he stopped the threat he taunted her.....put a gun to her chin and executed her......that is the issue I have think the guy is therefore a murderer.

^^This x10

no more for me on this thread. Whacko hit the nail on the head.

 

[murf4321]

so he wouldn't have been a murder if he just did nothing after the first lethal shot? It was the extra shots?

 

[AngelKing]

cant say Im shocked.

 

[kalash]

"OMG" she shouldn't have been in HIS HOME, stealing his shit. If I break into someone's house, I'd have to think there's a possibility of a negative outcome. Just a thought.

Would it have been okay for him to kidnap them, rape them, torture them, etc?

 

[murf4321]

Would it have been okay for him to kidnap them, rape them, torture them, etc?

Where is the logic behind that?

He shot intruders, I don't have any problem with that. Who gives a damn what this lunatic "said," he's a loon.

 

[shapiroeric]

so he wouldn't have been a murder if he just did nothing after the first lethal shot? It was the extra shots?

My guess it was the entire scenario from hiding the truck to sitting in the basement....after the first one was shot the second was the icing on the cake for the prosecution....why he set up a recorder is beyond my comprehension.....

 

[kalash]

Where is the logic behind that?

He shot intruders, I don't have any problem with that. Who gives a damn what this lunatic "said," he's a loon.

Okay, how about crotch, knee, and elbow shots? Once the threat becomes a non-threat, stop shooting!

 

[murf4321]

My guess it was the entire scenario from hiding the truck to sitting in the basement....after the first one was shot the second was the icing on the cake for the prosecution....why he set up a recorder is beyond my comprehension.....

Because he is/was a moron.

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Okay, how about crotch, knee, and elbow shots? Once the threat becomes a non-threat, stop shooting!

Aim for a disabling shots with 2 intruders in the house? Come on? They could have had a flamethrower for all he knew at the onset of the crime when they smashed the glass.

 

[whacko]

so he wouldn't have been a murder if he just did nothing after the first lethal shot? It was the extra shots?

I would think it would be his approaching the person lying bleeding on the ground, tanuting her and pushing a gun to her chin and painting the room with her brains yes......that extra shot got him 1st degree murder.

 

[murf4321]

eh whatevs, agree to disagree. No point arguing over spilled milk. Solid discussion though.... I still hate criminals.

 

[Pete85]

so he wouldn't have been a murder if he just did nothing after the first lethal shot? It was the extra shots?

My guess would be yes, that does make a difference. The bad guys stopped being an immediate threat at that point. Continuing to shoot after the threat has stopped, or in this case, stopping shooting, taunting the incapacitated bad guy, standing over them and shooting them point blank in the head, makes all the difference between self defense and murder.