Minnesota Man found guilty of premeditated murder during home invasion....

[shapiroeric]

Sorry if this is a dupe but I looked and searched and did not find it.....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/prosecutor-man-shot-teens-intended-kill-23517042

Thoughts?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[mark056]

You can look at this case from a lot of different angles. The main issue appears to revolve around statements made before and after the shootings made by the defendant. He said enough to suggest that it was a set-up or a one man sting operation. I think the point is to do what you think you have to do, and keep your mouth shut, he didn't portray himself as victim but as a vigilante.

Maybe he and Sterling can become pen pals. You never have to explain what you don't say.

 

[EnglishBob]

I disagree. The main issue is that the guy, regardless of the guilt and culpability of the teenagers, set up an ambush. He also, for some reason, recorded everything. The recordings along with his statements paint a clear picture of the events.

In a prior thread some posters felt it was deserved. To argue that this is justified or that the kids were asking for it is a chilling thought, unless your argument is that events in a private residence are outside the law.

 

[murf4321]

I still don't understand how anyone who breaks into someone else's home can claim they maintain any rights while they're in the midst of violating someone else's.

 

[Terminator03]

This reminds me of that other idiot guy that recorded himself confronting his neighbors who were playing loud music at a birthday party, and then kept repeating how he was in "fear for his life", thinking it was going to exonerate him for shooting his unarmed neighbors. This is exactly the kind of stuff that makes all of us look bad, even if you feel he had a right to shoot anyone who broke into his home, armed or not. Unfortunately, even though I'm as pro 2A as you can get, I would have to find him guilty if I was on that jury based on the circumstances presented. If he had just stfu, things could have turned out entirely different for him, so he sunk his own ship inmo.

 

[murf4321]

This reminds me of that other idiot guy that recorded himself confronting his neighbors who were playing loud music at a birthday party, and then kept repeating how he was in "fear for his life", thinking it was going to exonerate him for shooting his unarmed neighbors. This is exactly the kind of stuff that makes all of us look bad, even if you feel he had a right to shoot anyone who broke into his home, armed or not. Unfortunately, even though I'm as pro 2A as you can get, I would have to find him guilty if I was on that jury based on the circumstances presented. If he had just stfu, things could have turned out entirely different for him, so he sunk his own ship inmo.

I can buy finding him guilty of something, like stupidity, but 1st degree premeditated murder? No way, they broke into his house. If I have a deadly attack dog in my home that I know will eat intruders, & it actually eats someone who breaks in, is that now 1st degree murder?

 

[whacko]

I read about this last year.....there were a few things on this that point to the home owner going a bit beyond self defense. The second victim was shot three times......then a delay in which he tells the home invader "you are dying".....then another shot. Invader was on the ground wouneded and unarmed....and he shoots again......then......waits 24 hours before contacting police? Yeah.......my opinoin there was more to this than defense.

OK before I get flamed....he had the right to defend his home........shoot till the threat is stopped........then call the police and imediately call your lawyer.....that is what he should have done.

 

[kalash]

If I have a deadly attack dog in my home that I know will eat intruders, & it actually eats someone who breaks in, is that now 1st degree murder?

If you purposefully starve the dog and train it to attack full-force, then maybe.

Both parties are in the wrong, imo. For the victims, especially the first one, it really is a case of PSGWSP. However, the homeowner sounds like a serious creep if, as the article states, he set up an ambush. Dragging a body into another room and then waiting for the second intruder is downright creepy.

 

[Terminator03]

I can buy finding him guilty of something, like stupidity, but 1st degree premeditated murder? No way, they broke into his house. If I have a deadly attack dog in my home that I know will eat intruders, & it actually eats someone who breaks in, is that now 1st degree murder?

I see what you're saying, but I believe they are basing the "premeditated" part on his recorded statements AFTER he fired and disabled the teens. That is what sunk his ship so to speak, NOT the fact that he was "prepared" to handle a home invasion.

 

[JCV]

I'm not sure you can call this an ambush.
They broke into HIS house, by choice. I doubt they were forced to do it. I also doubt there was a trail of skittles leading to a wide open front door with a sign that said free shit inside. They were there to steal his things, thinking the house was empty. Well is wasn't, PSGWSP. Wanna be a scumbag, then this is how you'll end up. I have zero sympathy for those kids. Is what the guy did creepy as ****? A little but it's not pre-meditated murder.

EDIT: I only read the link in the OP. If there are more details, I apologize.

DOUBLE EDIT: dupe http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/247095-Article-MN-Did-man-go-too-far-to-protect-his-home?highlight=byron+smith

 

[BigTimber]

He's a murderer clear as day. He dragged the girl after shooting her once into another room , reloaded and shot her execution style to finish her off, if I remember correctly. May he rot in prison were he belongs. Right to defend yourself of course. Right to execute some one who is already down posing zero threat, sorry he's worse than they are.

 

[whacko]

I'm not sure you can call this an ambush.
They broke into HIS house, by choice. I doubt they were forced to do it. I also doubt there was a trail of skittles leading to a wide open front door with a sign that said free shit inside. They were there to steal his things, thinking the house was empty. Well is wasn't, PSGWSP. Wanna be a scumbag, then this is how you'll end up. I have zero sympathy for those kids. Is what the guy did creepy as ****? A little but it's not pre-meditated murder.

EDIT: I only read the link in the OP. If there are more details, I apologize.

DOUBLE EDIT: dupe http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...far-to-protect-his-home?highlight=byron+smith

What about waiting 24 hours to call the police?

 

[JCV]

He's a murderer clear as day. He dragged the girl after shooting her once into another room , reloaded and shot her execution style to finish her off, if I remember correctly. May he rot in prison were he belongs. Right to defend yourself of course. Right to execute some one who is already down posing zero threat, sorry he's worse than they are.

Suffering seems cruel and unusual, he did her a favor and put her out of her misery so she wouldn't feel pain anymore

 

[JCV]

What about waiting 24 hours to call the police?

Does it make it premeditated murder? Not to me.
Is it weird/creepy? Hell yeah. Would I wait 24 hours? No and I'm sure most people wouldn't.

 

[murf4321]

Does it make it premeditated murder? Not to me.
Is it weird/creepy? Hell yeah. Would I wait 24 hours? No and I'm sure most people wouldn't.

Agreed. He wouldn't have murdered anyone if they didn't break into his house.

 

[BigTimber]

Does it make it premeditated murder? Not to me.
Is it weird/creepy? Hell yeah. Would I wait 24 hours? No and I'm sure most people wouldn't.

Reloading and then putting the muzzle under her chin and blowing her brains out all over the basement ceiling makes it premeditated. He thought about it, prepared for it and then carried it out. The first kid he shot not so much 1st degree. But the execution shot ,no question.

 

[BigTimber]

Not to mention he set up cameras, audio, a chair, had food and water with him. Moved his car to make them think he was out. That's a lot of fore thought. This wasn't grandpa wakes to find people in the house and in a panic opens fire. This was hunting.

 

[EnglishBob]

I think you can claim premeditated if:

a) you drop a hint that you'll be going out to the person you suspect burgled you.
b) you move your van to make it look like you left your house
c) you set up recording devices
d) you sit in your basement with a couple of bottles of water, a flashlight and your firearms waiting.

C'mon, it's the third reel of a crappy revenge flick.

Can anyone look at that list and say with a straight face that it wasn't premeditated?

 

[murf4321]

Not to mention he set up cameras, audio, a chair, had food and water with him. Moved his car to make them think he was out. That's a lot of fore thought. This wasn't grandpa wakes to find people in the house and in a panic opens fire. This was hunting.

People hunt inside their homes? Interesting.

 

[JCV]

Not to mention he set up cameras, audio, a chair, had food and water with him. Moved his car to make them think he was out. That's a lot of fore thought. This wasn't grandpa wakes to find people in the house and in a panic opens fire. This was hunting.

This wasn't hunting, not even close.
Regardless if he was there or not (but his car is still moved), they were going to break into his house and do whatever they intended to do.
He has the right to protect his house. Any uninvited person who breaks into your house, armed or not, IMO you have the right to shoot.

 

[kalash]

I'm okay with him sitting in the basement with supplies and waiting - he claims he suspected that the house would be broken into that night and the local PD certainly won't post a cruiser in his driveway all night long. Moving his car, preparing a tarp for the body, dragging the body around, waiting for the second intruder, and not alerting the authorities right away is very messed up though. If not premeditated murder, then certainly serious mental health issues.

edit: no one is questioning his right to defend himself in his home. It's how he went about doing it that's a problem.

 

[murf4321]

To each their own. I'm simply of the mindset that when i'm sitting at home in my underwear, and some bozos break into my home & get up in my grillmix, anything goes.

 

[JCV]

I think you can claim premeditated if:

a) you drop a hint that you'll be going out to the person you suspect burgled you.
b) you move your van to make it look like you left your house
c) you set up recording devices
d) you sit in your basement with a couple of bottles of water, a flashlight and your firearms waiting.

C'mon, it's the third reel of a crappy revenge flick.

Can anyone look at that list and say with a straight face that it wasn't premeditated?

Seriously man?
If you suspect someone is breaking into your garage while you're at work, it wouldn't even cross your mind to pretend like you were out, while you were actually home to find out who the **** is stealing your shit? Or would you file a police report instead? Maybe they'll protect your and your property.

Nope, I'm going to do my own investigating.
You guys are forgetting that these people INTENTIONALLY are BREAKING INTO HIS HOME. UNINVITED. UNWANTED.

The only part I semi agree with you on is the creepy part, I still don't understand 24 hour wait before he reported it. But that has nothing to do with premeditated murder.

 

[todd c]

i said it in the other thread. if someone breaks into a house it should be a death sentence. I really don't care how this guy terminated the threat. it was just a matter of time before these people broke into a house that had kids or a wife home alone and they did something much worse. this guy is guilty of talking to the police only.

 

[BigTimber]

Seriously man?
If you suspect someone is breaking into your garage while you're at work, it wouldn't even cross your mind to pretend like you were out, while you were actually home to find out who the **** is stealing your shit? Or would you file a police report instead? Maybe they'll protect your and your property.

Nope, I'm going to do my own investigating.
You guys are forgetting that these people INTENTIONALLY are BREAKING INTO HIS HOME. UNINVITED. UNWANTED.

The only part I semi agree with you on is the creepy part, I still don't understand 24 hour wait before he reported it. But that has nothing to do with premeditated murder.

What part of reloading and executing the girl doesn't compute. Again punch the ticket of anyone who breaks into your house and poses a threat, execute someone lying on the ground unarmed. Sorry your a murderer.

 

[whacko]

This wasn't hunting, not even close.
Regardless if he was there or not (but his car is still moved), they were going to break into his house and do whatever they intended to do.
He has the right to protect his house. Any uninvited person who breaks into your house, armed or not, IMO you have the right to shoot.

I never questioned his right to shoot. But......once #2 was down.......walking up and blowing #2s brains out?!?!?!? Yeah that is pre meditated murder straight up. Once the invader is down and not threat........call the police. Look......gun owners have to take the high road.......he did not and gave the fir arms community a bad name IMO.

 

[xero2099]

OK before I get flamed....he had the right to defend his home........shoot till the threat is stopped........then call the police and immediately call your lawyer.....that is what he should have done.

This! you do have a right to defend your home but you stop the threat no need to "finish" the job

 

[whacko]

What part of reloading and executing the girl doesn't compute. Again punch the ticket of anyone who breaks into your house and poses a threat, execute someone lying on the ground unarmed. Sorry your a murderer.

Absolutely........gun owners should take the high road......he did not.

 

[RG617]

People hunt inside their homes? Interesting.

Sure does sound like the basement equivalent of a tree stand to me, from snacks & water to the camouflage of making the place look unoccupied on purpose.

This wasn't hunting, not even close.
Regardless if he was there or not (but his car is still moved), they were going to break into his house and do whatever they intended to do.
He has the right to protect his house. Any uninvited person who breaks into your house, armed or not, IMO you have the right to shoot.

Does he have the right to execute a person who is no longer a threat to his life? Short answer: No. That this is even up for debate is mindboggling. It's SELF-DEFENSE people, not the right to kneel over a seriously wounded, incapacitated person, mock them, put one in his/her hat, and then wait a full day just to be sure there is no doubt that they are dead. *That* is murder, and is just as ****ed up when a legal gun owner does it as it is when some junkie does it. Making the decision to live civilized is what separates us from them. Acting like them degrades the argument that you're better than them and it absolutely hurts our battle to protect our rights.

To each their own. I'm simply of the mindset that when i'm sitting at home in my underwear, and some bozos break into my home & get up in my grillmix, anything goes.

Somehow I don't think sitting in your boxers with a gun nearby, Cheetos in one hand and beer in the other while watching tv is the same as hiding in your house with supplies and firearms, most likely done up in the latest in tactical boots and drop holsters while luring in burglars. Even that isn't the thing that's wrong. It's the execution afterwards.

 

[Pete85]

Seriously man?
If you suspect someone is breaking into your garage while you're at work, it wouldn't even cross your mind to pretend like you were out, while you were actually home to find out who the **** is stealing your shit? Or would you file a police report instead? Maybe they'll protect your and your property.

Nope, I'm going to do my own investigating.
You guys are forgetting that these people INTENTIONALLY are BREAKING INTO HIS HOME. UNINVITED. UNWANTED.

The only part I semi agree with you on is the creepy part, I still don't understand 24 hour wait before he reported it. But that has nothing to do with premeditated murder.

His right to defend himself, including using deadly force on people breaking into his house isn't in question. I think the part where they're getting premeditated murder from is when the second BG was on the ground bleeding, and no longer an immediate threat to his safety, he reloaded his gun and point blank blew her brains out. That's when it crossed the line from self defense to murder. Had he called the police at that point, he'd probably be a free man today.