Mass. Gun laws

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Hey everyone, I do not live in Mass. I am a Police Officer and a competition shooter. Me and some friends will be in Massachusetts in the coming weeks to shoot some match's there.

I know the gun laws are very strict, so I need to know what is not allowed there. I shoot 3-gun, USPSA, IDPA, and IPSC.

What are the restrictions when it comes to AR's? I have 5 AR-15's that are all equipted differently. Alot of times in 3-gun I will shoot my legal SBR. Are SBR's allowed in Mass.?

What about max. magazine capacity for a Rifle?

I use a Benelli M2 as well, what is the max. capacity for shotguns?

What about the max capacity for a pistol?

Thanks everyone
 
If you are a full fledged LEO and qual'd for LEOSA with an SBR, that is likely the only way I would bring in an SBR. Even then most of the other NFA items are not covered under LEOSA so I would not risk it. But SBRs are allowed here and they are considered handguns for licensing purposes (don't ask). As for the AWB stuff, you have the old federal AWB in place here. So no hi-caps here. The benelli M2 is likely OK if it's not a mag fed. No ARs with bayo lugs, collapsible stocks, etc.

On the LEO front, IMHO you no longer have no leg up over your partners who aren't LEOs. There is a push in this state to apply the AWB as written against LEOs who are off duty. This, as you know, will mean someone soon (who is a cop) will need to be the sacrificial lamb to be prosecuted for violating the law. Don't be an out of state cop violating our AWB because it will give the DA cover to go after you while telling the locals "Hey, I didn't go after you guys, snivel, snivel..."

That exemption BTW is that LEOs can have post ban AWB guns/mags only in the official performance of their duties. This does not mean off duty for 3-gun matches, etc. It doesn't even mean off duty period. Personal possession and ownership is not an official duty either. A lot of local LEOs have been thumbing their nose at the plebes laughing that they can buy stuff we can't but the influential players in LE are coming down on that now. A few COs have been prosecuted but we fully expect a real LEO will be sooner rather than later. An out of state cop would be a ripe target.

YMMV and the likelihood of you having a problem is minimal, but foretold is forewarned.
 
Thank you for the reply. I am really not concerned with my pistol with post ban magazines. I am protected under federal law, that allows any off-duty or retired LEO to carry anywhere within the united states.

I am not qualified through the department with my SBR, due to the fact that I carry a department issued AR-15.

I guess I should call the state police, to make sure
 
I imagine a call to the State Police, with some names dropped, will give you the unofficial "all clear" to do what you want, as long as you get the right number to call if something should come up. This is just the way it works here.
 
Thank you for the reply. I am really not concerned with my pistol with post ban magazines. I am protected under federal law, that allows any off-duty or retired LEO to carry anywhere within the united states.

If you read the LEOSA statute, it only indemnifies your carrying concealed. It does NOT indemnify AWB issues. It doesn't even indemnify MA's license requirement for simple possession but that would be an obvious thing covered if the carry part is covered. The AWB part is not as obvious a thing that would be automatically covered. Especially if the gun is not department issued.

I get that you likely won't have issue, but I am telling you what the letter of the law states. LEOSA always assumed the gun laws of the 46 sane states in laying out it's exception. Not the 4 red headed stepchild states, one of which is MA. YMMV.

Your friends will have issues with any post ban stuff if they are not LEOs BTW.
 
If you read the LEOSA statute, it only indemnifies your carrying concealed. It does NOT indemnify AWB issues. It doesn't even indemnify MA's license requirement for simple possession but that would be an obvious thing covered if the carry part is covered. The AWB part is not as obvious a thing that would be automatically covered. Especially if the gun is not department issued.

I get that you likely won't have issue, but I am telling you what the letter of the law states. LEOSA always assumed the gun laws of the 46 sane states in laying out it's exception. Not the 4 red headed stepchild states, one of which is MA. YMMV.

Your friends will have issues with any post ban stuff if they are not LEOs BTW.

I will call the state police tomorrow, there has to be a loophole somewhere that we can go through. I will also contact CLEET to verify my carring status in Mass.

On a side note, is the only way to have a pistol that has more than 10 rounds in the mag only if it is a preban mag? What about an M&P, they were not out in '94 so there is no preban mags for them.

What about rifles, such as an AR platform, or an AK-47? Do you have to pin the mags so that only 10 rounds fit in it?

Thanks for the answers everyone, sorry I have so many questions, its just that it seems that Mass. is the most gun-unfriendly state.
 
There's a pretty extensive post on non-resident in MA HERE that would be worth looking through so you know what you're up against.

Thanks for the answers everyone, sorry I have so many questions, its just that it seems that Mass. is the most gun-unfriendly state.

No argument there - lots of unfriendly in MA law.
 
I will call the state police tomorrow, there has to be a loophole somewhere that we can go through. I will also contact CLEET to verify my carring status in Mass.

On a side note, is the only way to have a pistol that has more than 10 rounds in the mag only if it is a preban mag? What about an M&P, they were not out in '94 so there is no preban mags for them.

What about rifles, such as an AR platform, or an AK-47? Do you have to pin the mags so that only 10 rounds fit in it?

Thanks for the answers everyone, sorry I have so many questions, its just that it seems that Mass. is the most gun-unfriendly state.

So yes, M&Ps we can't have hi-caps with. As for guns with pre ban hi-caps, we just do that and use old mil-surp ones. You would have to permanently alter post-ban hi-caps but there are so many pre-bans available now that most of the country is confident they aren't getting a new AWB so people are selling off their pre-bans and replacing them with new stock.
 
If you are a full fledged LEO and qual'd for LEOSA with an SBR, that is likely the only way I would bring in an SBR. Even then most of the other NFA items are not covered under LEOSA so I would not risk it. But SBRs are allowed here and they are considered handguns for licensing purposes (don't ask). .


He should be able to bring in an SBR for a competition if it is not in a AWB config, just send the notice to the ATF (5320.20). Use preban mags

Why are SBR considered handguns? The one I had was registered as a rifle
 
He should be able to bring in an SBR for a competition if it is not in a AWB config, just send the notice to the ATF (5320.20). Use preban mags

Why are SBR considered handguns? The one I had was registered as a rifle

The law defines a rifle as greater than 16" barrel. So an SBR can't actually meet this definition.

140 §121 said:
“Rifle”, a weapon having a rifled bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 16 inches and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.
 
SBR is just that "Short Barrel Rifle" Not a hand gun, not a rifle but a Federally defined "SBR"


To the OP, PM sent


Edit to add Link

link

Please, show me the law that an SBR is FID OK in MA. You can't. I showed the law above where the definition of a rifle in MA requires it to have a >= 16" barrel. There is no definition of an SBR in MA law so it is generally accepted that one must have an LTC and not an FID for a SBR in MA.

Where now is the mistake in my post?
But SBRs are allowed here and they are considered handguns for licensing purposes (don't ask)

Why the **** do I bother sometimes.... [thinking]
 
Please, show me the law that an SBR is FID OK in MA. You can't. I showed the law above where the definition of a rifle in MA requires it to have a >= 16" barrel. There is no definition of an SBR in MA law so it is generally accepted that one must have an LTC and not an FID for a SBR in MA.

Where now is the mistake in my post?


Why the **** do I bother sometimes.... [thinking]

I can say that anywhere else in the USA a SBR is NOT a pistol, nor is it considered a rifle. Anybody can go into a gun store here and walk out with a pistol or rifle, assuming they pass the 4473. But an SBR requires a tax stamp, either a trust or letter signed by the sherriff, and up to 3 months to get the stamp. If a person is caught with any NFA restricted weapons, and they dont legally have the right to use them. They WILL be charged and convicted with a Felony weapon poss.
 
I can say that anywhere else in the USA a SBR is NOT a pistol...

Terraformer is correct regarding MA law applicable to SBRs. In fact, it is my understanding the BATFE will not approve a SBR application from a MA resident unless the applicant possesses a handgun license (LTC).

Additionally, your above statement is incorrect. Many states define rifles and shotguns with barrels under a certain length, or under a minimum OAL, as "pistols". Terraformer cited the MA law. Other examples include...

CGS c.529 s.29-27 said:
The term "pistol" and the term "revolver"...mean any firearm having a barrel less than twelve inches in length.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/pub/Chap529.htm#Sec29-27.htm

NHRSA 159:1 said:
Pistol or revolver, as used herein, means any firearm with barrel less than 16 inches in length.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-1.htm

RIGL 11-47-2 said:
"Pistol" includes any pistol or revolver, and any shotgun, rifle, or similar weapon with overall length less than twenty-six inches (26")

http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE11/11-47/11-47-2.HTM
 
I can say that anywhere else in the USA a SBR is NOT a pistol, nor is it considered a rifle. Anybody can go into a gun store here and walk out with a pistol or rifle, assuming they pass the 4473. But an SBR requires a tax stamp, either a trust or letter signed by the sherriff, and up to 3 months to get the stamp. If a person is caught with any NFA restricted weapons, and they dont legally have the right to use them. They WILL be charged and convicted with a Felony weapon poss.

I agree one hundred percent that the above applies in the federal jurisdiction. As I suspect you know, everyone in the US operates under two sets of laws when not in a federal enclave (and even then DC has it's own set of laws). Federal and State/Local. But in 49 other states a license to posses an SBR is either a) not required or b) one FID license covers all types of legally allowed firearms (ie; Illinois). So the only laws that matter wrt licensing is the federal NFA registration you have to go through. Here in MA, we have 5 licenses which cover possession and this ups the legal ante on possession.

  • Restricted FID (pepper spray only)
  • FID (low capacity rifles and shot guns and everything inclusive from the above)
  • LTC B (Low capacity handguns and hi/std-cap rifles and everything inclusive from the above)
  • LTC A (hi/std-cap handguns and everything inclusive of the above)
  • MG/Green card (machine guns which does not include SBRs/SBSs/DDs/AOWs/etc)

Now, as I pointed out above, the law defines a rifle as a firearm with a barrel equal to or over 16" long. There is no definition of a SBR.
Here are the definitions:
“Firearm”, a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.

“Assault weapon”, shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70); (iv) Colt AR-15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9 and M-12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include: (i) any of the weapons, or replicas or duplicates of such weapons, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such weapons were manufactured on October 1, 1993; (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a semiautomatic assault weapon; (iv) any weapon that was manufactured prior to the year 1899; (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon; (vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

“Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device; (iii) that employs a rotating cylinder capable of accepting more than ten rounds of ammunition in a rifle or firearm and more than five shotgun shells in the case of a shotgun or firearm; or (iv) that is an assault weapon. The term “large capacity weapon” shall be a secondary designation and shall apply to a weapon in addition to its primary designation as a firearm, rifle or shotgun and shall not include: (i) any weapon that was manufactured in or prior to the year 1899; (ii) any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that is a single-shot weapon; (iv) any weapon that has been modified so as to render it permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a large capacity weapon; or (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable large capacity weapon.

“Length of barrel” or “barrel length”, that portion of a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun through which a shot or bullet is driven, guided or stabilized and shall include the chamber.

“Machine gun”, a weapon of any description, by whatever name known, loaded or unloaded, from which a number of shots or bullets may be rapidly or automatically discharged by one continuous activation of the trigger, including a submachine gun.

“Rifle”, a weapon having a rifled bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 16 inches and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.

“Sawed-off shotgun”, any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

“Semiautomatic”, capable of utilizing a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and requiring a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.

“Shotgun”, a weapon having a smooth bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 18 inches with an overall length equal to or greater than 26 inches, and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.

“Weapon”, any rifle, shotgun or firearm.

Note that there is no definition for "handgun" per se. Firearm = Handgun in MA parlance and the term could be used interchangeably in the law. In practice here on NES and in the real world, we use the proper definition for firearms and call the MA word firearm a handgun. There is a definition for "sawed off shotgun" but no definition for "sawed off rifle", hence no definition for SBR and it is not considered a rifle. One requires an LTC A to possess an SBR for no other reason than none of the other licenses technically cover the form factor of an SBR. SBRs are permitted and the closest definition that fits is the handgun definition.

Sooooo.... Back to what I originally said. For licensing purposes, ARs are a hi/std-capacity handgun for the purposes of firearms licensing in MA and ALL firearm/shotgun/rifle possession in MA requires a license save some very narrow exceptions, competitions are one exception but the cops here are free to treat all exceptions as affirmative offenses.

More proof for this if you need it is that the ATF will require one to have an LTC A in order to sign off on the Form 4 while a standard length M4gery or A2 only requires a LTC B. We treat in practice the LTC A license as the catch all license for anything that isn't banned but that doesn't fit the definitions of ammo, shotgun or rifle.

Go to my original response and you will see I said "they are considered handguns for licensing purposes (don't ask)" when I said this. You all asked and made a big deal of it. For the purposes of licensing in MA, SBRs and most AOWs that resemble a firearm (the generic form of the term) require an LTC-A.

If we all used the term firearm in our daily lives the way the state of MA uses it, we would go frackin' bonkers with confusion over what the hell anyone was talking about.
 
Terraformer is correct regarding MA law applicable to SBRs. In fact, it is my understanding the BATFE will not approve a SBR application from a MA resident unless the applicant possesses a handgun license (LTC).

Additionally, your above statement is incorrect. Many states define rifles and shotguns with barrels under a certain length, or under a minimum OAL, as "pistols". Terraformer cited the MA law. Other examples include...



http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/pub/Chap529.htm#Sec29-27.htm



http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-1.htm



http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE11/11-47/11-47-2.HTM

The ATF requires a LTC-A, not just a LTC, for them to approve a form 4. Also, those other states don't license possession of SBRs/handguns/pistols/etc so there is no issue. The licensing is what causes the issue here.
 
The ATF requires a LTC-A, not just a LTC, for them to approve a form 4.

I though so, but wasn't sure. Thanks.

Also, those other states don't license possession of SBRs/handguns/pistols/etc so there is no issue.

That portion of my response was directed at the OP's statement "...anywhere else in the USA a SBR is NOT a pistol...", which is incorrect.

The licensing is what causes the issue here.

Yes, I believe I understand. A NR LTC-A would be required for the OP to transport/possess in MA, as the competition exemption is not applicable to a "large capacity firearm", which a SBR AR-15 would be classified as. Correct?
 
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In short, an unlicensed person brining in large capacity guns to this state under the "competition" exemption is borderline full retard, much less an SBR Stay far far away from Mass!! NO good can come from the minefield of problematic laws this scenario has to offer. It is not worth the potential outcome. There are many other good matches in gun friendly states where your money would be better spent.
 
A NR LTC-A would be required for the OP to transport/possess in MA, as the competition exemption is not applicable to a "large capacity firearm", which a SBR AR-15 would be classified as. Correct?

Well, not large capacity but along those lines of the comp exemption is where I am worried. The comp exemption is specific to pistol and revolver. See §131G below. What I worry is the more exotic it gets, the higher the risk level gets. Hence why I was pointing him to taking the SBR under his LEOSA creds but that doesn't apply. There is no mention of large capacity in the Comp Exemption so I am not as worried about that as it's vague and fightable through vagueness and lenity. The SBR is just not worth the risk, as is his post ban AWB stuff. His non leo partners absolutely need to leave the post ban hi-cap stuff at home. They don't stand a fighting chance.

ch140 §131G said:
Section 131G. Any person who is not a resident of the commonwealth may carry a pistol or revolver in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of taking part in a pistol or revolver competition or attending any meeting or exhibition of any organized group of firearm collectors or for the purpose of hunting; provided, that such person is a resident of the United States and has a permit or license to carry firearms issued under the laws of any state, district or territory thereof which has licensing requirements which prohibit the issuance of permits or licenses to persons who have been convicted of a felony or who have been convicted of the unlawful use, possession or sale of narcotic or harmful drugs; provided, further, that in the case of a person traveling in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of hunting, he has on his person a hunting or sporting license issued by the commonwealth or by the state of his destination. Police officers and other peace officers of any state, territory or jurisdiction within the United States duly authorized to possess firearms by the laws thereof shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed to have a permit or license to carry firearms as described in this section.
 
Well, not large capacity but along those lines of the comp exemption is where I am worried. The comp exemption is specific to pistol and revolver. See §131G below. What I worry is the more exotic it gets, the higher the risk level gets. Hence why I was pointing him to taking the SBR under his LEOSA creds but that doesn't apply. There is no mention of large capacity in the Comp Exemption so I am not as worried about that as it's vague and fightable through vagueness and lenity. The SBR is just not worth the risk, as is his post ban AWB stuff. His non leo partners absolutely need to leave the post ban hi-cap stuff at home. They don't stand a fighting chance.

Yeah, I see what you're saying now.

I agree bringing the SBR is not worth taking the chance, and obviously any AWB stuff is verboten.

MA laws are such a fustercluck...[banghead]
 
I know there are match's all over the USA, and I have shot at many of them. I originally was just planning on visiting my family during my vacation, but I figured we would shoot some match's while there.

Also an SBR is a rifle with a barrel length less that 16", the ONLY way to legally own one is to file for your stamp on a form 4. If anyone is caught with one without having the NFA stamp, will be charged with a felony. unless it is a department issued rifle.

There are other ways to have something similar legally without getting a stamp. You can have a AR-15 Pistol with a short barrel, but it can't have a stock. You can also get a Draco which is a AK pistol.

I think we are just going to bring pistols, and forget about 3-gun.

Thanks for all the info.
 
I guess I should call the state police, to make sure

I'll save you the trouble, don't even bother. Nobody in MA gov understands MA gun laws, period end. Calling any state org is a clear way to get WRONG answers, and if you're unlucky they will be wrong in a direction that places you in legal jeopardy for following them.

-Mike
 
Well I talked to some gun lawyer today, the state police refered me to him. The way he put it is that only myself can even have a gun in the state. He told me that you have to have a license to shoot at a range there, or be under the direct control of somebody with a license. He said that my friends cant shoot under my control.

He also told me that it is not uncommon for a Mass. LEO, to arrest a out of state police officer that has a gun. He said it is because alot of the officers there do not know the law.
 
Well I talked to some gun lawyer today, the state police refered me to him. The way he put it is that only myself can even have a gun in the state. He told me that you have to have a license to shoot at a range there, or be under the direct control of somebody with a license. He said that my friends cant shoot under my control.

He also told me that it is not uncommon for a Mass. LEO, to arrest a out of state police officer that has a gun. He said it is because alot of the officers there do not know the law.

Depending on what set of facts you told the lawyer, this may very well be the case. You mentioned towards the end of this thread about visiting relatives, etc and never stated the full nature of the "competition" so §131G may not cover your stay. As for an out of state leo getting arrested, yes, it's common enough. They won't do it to their own here as easily but out of staters wear targets on their backs like the less equal animals in the barnyard. It doesn't hit the news the way it does in NYC but yes, it is definitely happening.

The state laws here suck. We are working hard to make them suck less. See my sig line for more.
 
Its a roll of the dice, but when they come up snake eyes, You just spend a ton off money in court trying to stay out of jail. Kinda doesn't matter if they know the law or not once the handcuffs go on. After that point it's you and your attorney so break out the checkbook and welcome to Mass.
 
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