macgyver web sling. appleseed-friendly!

[jonathans]

if you've been to an appleseed or two, as i have, you might be intimately familiar with the GI web sling, or the M1907 sling, by now. i own one of both. say what you will about the M1907, but i like it. however, i am not very keen on these other green nylon wonders.

there's that little metal cam buckle that won't stay buckled unless it's digging into your skin. if you're a relatively little guy like me, there's a lot of excess sling you won't be using. the weight of the excess sling, twisting in the wind, pops open the latch on the cam buckle even when you are just trying to shoot hasty. also, that metal clip on the rear is a pain to get on or off, for example, an A2 buttstock.

i decided i would take a three-point i wasn't using for anything and sacrifice it to see if i couldn't do better. however, i had to go online and do a fair amount of digging before i found a plastic cam buckle that would fit on the 1.5" nylon i had. i kinda like the big wide "tactical" nylon ribbon, so it didn't bother me.

here's the layout, blown apart.

rear to fore, what we have here is a plastic snap which far outperforms the metal clip but requires some extra, and permanent, attachment to the stock. i weaved some 550 so i could tuck the snap up when i wasn't using it and it would stay in place. weaved 550 likes to hold the position you give it.

the next piece of plastic is a slide reducer. the small loop is weaved with 550 to the other half of the snap, and the big loop has the sling fed through it.

then, in the middle of the figure-eight, is a 1.5" slider. this is the centerpeice for getting your arm in the sling. the center bar of the slider is already inside a stitched loop in the sling, and i suppose without a sewing machine this would be the hardest part to do from scratch.

now, up front, check out that beast of a cam buckle. hell yes. these are sold by strapworks and they advertise them as follows: "They close with a positive lock and do not slip." you got that right! when you use this cam buckle, you will see pinches in the webbing that last forever. it takes both hands to close it, so get your length adjustments down solid. i have not yet cut through the webbing just by closing it on the same spot multiple times, but i will report back and let you know. the buckle also has a slot on the (flat!) backside to feed the webbing through, which allows you to make relatively fine adjustments without a hassle. thicker webbing would not work with this buckle unless you took it apart and hacked on it.

cinched down, you hardly notice the slider/reducer combination is two separate pieces of plastic. they sit perfectly flush and they're on the outside so they don't bug you in hasty. the 550 accepts as much torque as you care to give it. the cam buckle can be located anywhere along the sling but i like it up front where i can tuck my hand under it. with a bigger surface area than the metal cam buckle on a GI web sling, you can apply the same pressure at lower psi on your bones and still have a taunt sling.

the only thing left is to unsnap, open it up, and stick your arm in.

and there's the tucked snap in the rear. fits right behind the telescoping stock latch which i ain't using anyways. feh. will also let you tuck it upwards on the A2, should mostly stay out of the way. 550's great. i'd weave the whole sling out of 550 if i knew what i was doing.

don't forget to give the loop a quarter turn before you get your arm tangled up in it. alright.

i think there's a lot of room for improvement, and i have some ideas, but this is improvised for pennies and it's already been better to me than the green wonder. whatcha think?

 

[Twigg]

Nicely done !
The only thing I'd suggest is to add a forward quick release so you can release the sling from the rifle without having to undo the loop sling from your arm after completing an AQT at an Appleseed

 

[jonathans]

in fact, that's where i run into the first problem: detachable sling swivels for 1.5" nylon. i've never been able to find any.

 

[Sprocket]

Jonathan - Does this give you any ideas for a complete sling made from paracord?
http://www.instructables.com/id/Paracord-bracelet-with-a-side-release-buckle/

If you can back down to 1.25" wide, you'll find your QD connections. Also, nobody said the whole thing needs to be the same width - If you have access to a sewing machine you could have a wide middle with narrower ends to facilitate the QD swivels.

For me, that thing has too much going on - I'm more of a k.i.s.s. type and use a vtac type sling - but I appreciate your ingenuity and attention to details. Keep posting up as you refine.

 

[jonathans]

heh, yeah, that does give me an idea: "hella expensive." one foot of cord equals one inch of bracelet! it looks like you'd need a whole lot of paracord. so.

i bought a whole lot.

i ordered 100 feet of woodland camo and another 100 feet of multicam from some guy on ebay. in the meanwhile, i have a starter technique for a 1.5" wide sling woven across four strands.

basically, the idea is to start with a pair of alpine butterflies right at the middle of two equal length strands. you tie the first butterfly knot normally. however, when you tie the second butterfly, you first feed the second strand through the load-bearing loop of the first butterfly. assuming you successfully tie them off to the same size loop (not trivial), you get a pair of knots, two loops linked together, and four strands to weave across. here's a better look.

i tested out the weave with one of the ends. it comes out a bit thick for our liking, doesn't it? along with that 200' of paracord, i got ten pair 3/4" ITW nexus snap buckles, coyote tan. weaving across two strands is going to come out too thin, i feel, so i need a three-strand technique.

i'll think about it while i untie these butterflies.

 

[jonathans]

just for completeness and scientific integrity, here's the single-knot, two-strand fed test. it is exactly 3/4" wide, which could prove uncomfortable.

 

[jonathans]

if i could get three ends on a rope from only two just by tying the right knots in it, i'd be rich and rule the universe, so until then here is the most naive solution to the problem of targeting a 1" wide weave.

just loosen up the butterfly a little bit and lead a line through the center of it! here is what it looks like from the top.

you're staring at the knot and the two "legs" from the knot going off to the left and the right. if i had some other colors i'd use them in the center. it's tied back on itself with a simple overhand knot, to form another loop. here's a look at the third line and how it'll "lasso" the butterfly knot.

the whole thing cinches down solid, trust me. when you yank on the load-bearing loop of a butterfly, it tightens. hard.

i'm convinced there is a better way than using an overhand. it's a weak knot. even if i manage to bury it into the weave, it could come out. maybe. i'll keep thinking about it while i, uh, go buy some nylon ribbon...

 

[jonathans]

swap the overhand out for a small noose and feed it back through itself as before and you get something decent.

that's all on the weave for now. i'll report back on the appleseed sling as it comes along. damned good idea, this, though.

 

[Twigg]

heh, yeah, that does give me an idea: "hella expensive." one foot of cord equals one inch of bracelet!

Well, on the bright side one can never have too much paracord.

 

[jonathans]

you got that right. well in the past week or so, all the parts have come in for my weaving project, my sling project, and my ruger bedding project... but i'm going to try and stay on topic in this one thread.

here we have prototype number 2. it begins with threaded studs that i screwed into my 10/22 stock in the normal way, and just cementing them in place with the plain but venerable elmer's wood glue.

attached to the studs are a set of uncle mike's quick-release swivels, which of course aren't quick enough for me! now the real action begins. we have a set of itw nexus side-snap buckles on either end, one tri-glide, one cam buckle, and about six feet of sling. with no further ado, i give you 'seed sling 2.0:

all of this is 3/4", and all plastic hardware. for the sake of rapid prototyping, i have "stitched" the sling to the tri-glide with duct tape. i have also attached the swivels and the side-snaps with duct tape. these could be tied up with paracord for style. you could do it quickly/temporarily with a clove hitch, or use a small weave to permanently attach them. let's look at some expanded close-ups:

and finally, as promised, a diagram, proving i am also a photoshop master.

as you can see, the "teeth" end of the side-snaps always face backwards. this is intentional, so that you don't re-attach your sling backwards. it's still possible to re-attach it all twisted up, as it has always been, but the cam buckle should at least give you a little hint. length adjustment while in hasty or in full sling takes a split second with the cam buckle. now all i want is some 3/4" poly or nylon to come in multicam...

 

[Sprocket]

Is there a reason you didn't go 1" wide to get a good fit with the Uncle Mikes QD's? Looking good.

 

[Twigg]

Just a suggestion but why not eliminate the plastic quick release thingies ?

I mean, you can get quick release sling swiveles in 1" or 1.25".

That'd be two less things to futz with.

Link here

 

[jonathans]

the side snaps are actually the part i want to get worked into the design, rather than the QDs loops. they're really not that quick, you only press in one direction, and it bites into your finger. however, the whole thing should remain compatible with QDs.

i think the thing to do is connect the side snaps to the loop -- whether it be an integral AR-style loop or a quick-release -- using another few inches of sling on a normal buckle. like this:

that beats the paracord attachment, for sure.

sprocket, i found a deal on 3/4" stuff, and i happened to have 3/4" QDs already. in theory, this should all scale up to 1". it should even scale up to 1.25", but i have not found cam buckles in 1.25". its a little ludicrous at 1.5" but that's what i had for scraps when i started.

i am going to check out some places in town that might be able to do the stitching for me, a tailor and an upholsterer. nonetheless i have poked around to learn about thread and think i might want something along these lines: nylon, tex 70. UV-resistant would be a bonus.

 

[jonathans]

the one tailor in town that agreed to do some stitching, even after she learned it was for a rifle sling (what? she asked! i don't lie.) has the parts and will get it done by monday.

strapworks.com has a custom shop which has a pre-canned three point rifle sling package, so when i get this back i'm going to pitch this whole package to them. they have all the parts to get all of these pieces in any size, in polypro or nylon, and in my estimation they can make and sell "appleseed sling kits" and even make up for the shortcomings i'll point out in a minute.

only, i think they should probably have a name that gets broader appeal. there's "tactical slings." there's "hunter slings." there's "G.I. web sling," which of course is metal parts, and what i'm trying to add value to, so i still need to differentiate from that in name. "appleseed sling" commercializes appleseed and that is the last thing i want to do. and "shooting sling" could mean basically any of those; it's a generic term.

i think this design can rightly be called a rifleman sling.

it makes up for all the web sling shortcomings. for heaven's sake, it doesn't even need stitching when you make it with polypro! the duct tape held up in all three positions on my arm even when i applied excess pressure and got in and out of positions for an hour! there are only 59 google results for "rifleman sling." finally, it can be assembled from a kit on the cheap.

in fact, here's a table of the numbers, given what is available on strapworks right this minute.

			3/4"	1"	1.25"	qty
cam buckle		0.90	1.57	N/A	1
tri-glide		0.25	0.30	0.40	2
tri-glide, wide mouth	0.25	0.30	0.45	1
side snap		0.77	0.82	1.51	2
1' lt. wt. polypro	0.15	0.15	0.15	6
1' flat nylon		0.31	0.39	N/A	6

polypro sling		4.09	4.11	N/A
nylon sling		5.05	5.55	N/A

now for the shortcomings. there is no 1.25" cam buckle. the 3/4" and 1" cam buckles will not work with anything other than lightweight polypro, so you can't really build a nylon one with them even though i priced it out.

 

[Sprocket]

As a suggestion, there are different types of nylon webbing - I have a couple slings that have very different materials, smaller/high thread counts for lack of better description. I'm sure it will increase costs but if you can find the right 1" webbing to work with the cam you'll have a better product overall.

Nice work

 

[jonathans]

i've included that bit of wisdom in my email to their custom shop, thanks. if they can find me a 1" nylon that works, that's the ticket. otherwise, i'm looking into shaving down the cam buckles so it fits. finally, the cam buckle can be removed and replaced with a tri-glide, but this makes adjustment slower.

 

[jonathans]

i'm just going to paste this email from tom at strapworks verbatim, since it made my heart leap!

This would be a "slam dunk" for us to work up a kit, or to even make
finished slings. Our 1" polyester (which allows us to do virtually any
design/coloration like marpat and other digital camos)is a bit thinner than
the nylon and may work in the plastic cam buckle. I'll check on that.
Meanwhile, when you get your prototype finished, let me know the materials
list and we'll work up a kit. Thanks for "throwing us a bone".

no mention of the nylon though. and correct me if i'm wrong but i was under the impression digital is basically gucci camo that makes you stick out like a peacock in a parking lot. still, i like where this is headed.