MA resident purchasing at NH or VT gun show

[bostonasphalt2]

OK - so then how in the hell are all these "doomsday preppers" going around publicly - and on TV shows - telling us to get as many guns as we can and make sure they aren't registered so the "government won't come and seize them?????"

I actually have heard random seizure may be a future risk here in MA.
Those who live here know that this can happen RIGHT NOW in certain towns if you move there and the cops find out you have a firearm - simply put, certain towns in MA already have banned the possession of ANY firearm by a resident of their town in MA. I know this first hand - this isn't just urban legend) and in certain other stick-up-the-butt states.
I have heard this from a contact in a federal governmental agency AND from someone that is very active in a veterans' association. Is this total BS - even though certain town governments can already do this???

......yeah I'm gonna call bullshit unless you can prove it. Go ahead, name a town here in Ma, that when you move here, they automatically come and take your firearms. No, it's ok, I'll wait.

Leave fear mongering to the lefties

 

[KC80113]

No bullshit.
I don't make shit up.
What would I gain by doing that?
I'm a former LEO - not from MA. I was horrified to find out how restrictive things were when I moved here yrs ago, but what happened to my friend was beyond belief when I first heard it - but it IS true.

THis happened in Carver MA.

A long-time, personal friend of mine moved to Carver from Weymouth about 8 yrs ago - had his 2 registered handguns taken from him. The ones he had that were NOT registered, he still has. 2 cops showed up and demanded the guns. Period. The town has some sort of ordinance/law that prohibits their residents from owning handguns - not sure about long guns.

....

Just did some quick research on the whole Carver MA issue. They are pretty straightforward about semantics when answering questions on the LTC apps. SInce the cops never explained in detail why they took his guns, other than that the Chief of Police "doesn't issue LTC's in his town" - based on the 4 websites I read (2 of them private citizens, 2 of them govt) was probably how he answered questions on the LTC form. You can APPLY, but area scuttlebutt claims that doesn't mean it will be ISSUED. They can make up any reason why. The Carver MA website pretty much tells you that, in a roundabout way, by blathering on and on about semantics in answers. The website was made AFTER this happened to my friend - 2008. But note, the links to MA Laws are 404. A red flag that this thing is not a priority to them.
Another non-govt site points out the issues such as the presence of kids, or mere possibility of the presence of kids in the residence, as a possible reason for denial of an LTC and thus - seizure. Its clearly obvious that seizure of firearms from folks in Carver is not an uncommon experience. There is a lawsuit I remember being in the news back in the early 2000's against Carver b/c of the denial of an LTC.

I didn't get into seeing if I could find town ordinances online - it's too damn early int he a.m. for me to be doing that sort of detailed research into ancient law that may not even be electronic - but towns CAN enact ordinances that differ from state law, just as states can enact laws that differ from federal law (see, i.e., marijuana laws, gay marriage, etc.)
His mistake was applying for a renewal in Carver....

Thanks for welcoming me to northeastshooters.com.

 

[Racenet]

No bullshit.
I don't make shit up.
What would I gain by doing that?
I'm a former LEO - not from MA. I was horrified to find out how restrictive things were when I moved here yrs ago, but what happened to my friend was beyond belief when I first heard it - but it IS true.

THis happened in Carver MA.

A long-time, personal friend of mine moved to Carver from Weymouth about 8 yrs ago - had his 2 registered handguns taken from him. The ones he had that were NOT registered, he still has. 2 cops showed up and demanded the guns. Period. The town has some sort of ordinance/law that prohibits their residents from owning handguns - not sure about long guns.

....

Just did some quick research on the whole Carver MA issue. They are pretty straightforward about semantics when answering questions on the LTC apps. SInce the cops never explained in detail why they took his guns, other than that the Chief of Police "doesn't issue LTC's in his town" - based on the 4 websites I read (2 of them private citizens, 2 of them govt) was probably how he answered questions on the LTC form. You can APPLY, but area scuttlebutt claims that doesn't mean it will be ISSUED. They can make up any reason why. The Carver MA website pretty much tells you that, in a roundabout way, by blathering on and on about semantics in answers. The website was made AFTER this happened to my friend - 2008. But note, the links to MA Laws are 404. A red flag that this thing is not a priority to them.
Another non-govt site points out the issues such as the presence of kids, or mere possibility of the presence of kids in the residence, as a possible reason for denial of an LTC and thus - seizure. Its clearly obvious that seizure of firearms from folks in Carver is not an uncommon experience. There is a lawsuit I remember being in the news back in the early 2000's against Carver b/c of the denial of an LTC.

I didn't get into seeing if I could find town ordinances online - it's too damn early int he a.m. for me to be doing that sort of detailed research into ancient law that may not even be electronic - but towns CAN enact ordinances that differ from state law, just as states can enact laws that differ from federal law (see, i.e., marijuana laws, gay marriage, etc.)
His mistake was applying for a renewal in Carver....

Thanks for welcoming me to northeastshooters.com.

Welcome to northeastshooters.com.

Now, onto the business at hand...... BS!

 

[Len-2A Training]

KC80113,

Without something else that we aren't being made aware of, this story just doesn't sound right to me and I'll explain why below.

- Unknowns: If the person failed to make notification of all 3 parties by Certified Mail (ONLY) within 30 days of moving to Carver, MGL allows suspension/revocation of any LTC and with that (again in accordance with MGL) it REQUIRES confiscation of everything! [Knowing Weymouth's reputation, I can definitely see this happening if they became aware that someone moved and didn't notify properly. They would request Carver to confiscate everything in this case.]

The above is the only logical reason why Carver PD would do such a thing.

Now some history on Carver and why the story doesn't sound right to me . . .

- Back in the 1998 time-frame, ex-chief Diane Skoog (Carver PD) went on record (in court IIRC) that nobody in Carver should own any guns or LTC except the police!
- GOAL held one of the 3 anti-GCA 1998 rallies on Carver Town Common with guest speaker Suzanna Gratia Hupp. See Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for info on the Luby's Cafe massacre and Suzanna's efforts to change TX law.
- Don Kusser, VP of BR&P and former BOD member of GOAL personally orchestrated an effort to get rid of Diane Skoog thru the ballot box. Some Selectmen were ousted in Carver and replaced with gun owners who had sued Skoog over her refusal to issue LTCs. Skoog was given "marching orders" by the Selectmen and found the "heat" too much to bear, she resigned and was replaced. This was likely 2000-2002 timeframe although I don't recall exact year. [I printed out your specific post and will show it to Don tonight at our gun club meeting to see what he knows of the current situation in Carver.]
- Carver was "gun friendly" after Skoog left.

So I can't understand what you stated as "policy" in recent years. If someone had a RO taken out against them or otherwise screwed up, what you described is SOP in MA and required by MGL.

Sorry but this story just doesn't compute on its own without extenuating circumstances.

 

[Kevlar]

To clarify a bit, it is not legal to buy/sell to a resident of another state. My searching has not found that the transaction itself cannot occur in a different state.

It does not matter where the transaction takes place, only where the parties reside...it's perfectly legal for two MA residents to conduct a private sale between themselves in NH, or Alaska, or anywhere else that private sales are legal. It doesn't matter where the transaction takes place, only where they reside.

Generally, interstate transport of firearms obtained outside one's State of residence is prohibited...

(a) It shall be unlawful—

>snip<

(3) for any person ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ... any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State...

U.S.C. Title 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

...thereby necessitating the transaction occurs within the State of residence of both parties.

 

[SalemCat]

It's been mentioned before, but it's worth repeating.

Get yourself a C&R FFL-03 and a whole world of 50 year-old and older Firearms will open up for you; that can be readily and legally transported across State Lines.

There are many practical and modern guns that were built in 1963 and before. And there are even C&R's that are much newer; some even from the 1980's - the CZ-82 for example.

 

[KBCraig]

Generally, interstate transport of firearms obtained outside one's State of residence is prohibited...



U.S.C. Title 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

...thereby necessitating the transaction occurs within the State of residence of both parties.

You stopped reading way too soon.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I was just told that the current Carver COP is a member of the local gun club.

Do you still want to believe that he revokes everyone's LTC when they move into Carver and refuses to issue to residents?

That guy must have done something to get that "special treatment"! My bet is he failed to notify on moving and Weymouth pulled his LTC, as allowed by MGL!

 

[Kevlar]

You stopped reading way too soon.

Care to elaborate?

 

[KBCraig]

Care to elaborate?

Simple: the plain text of the excerpt you posted would make it illegal for a non-FFL to ever take any gun across a state line. You know that's not true, so go find the rest of the language.

If my NH neighbor and I are standing in Harvard Square (perish the thought) and I offer to buy a gun of his, and he agrees to sell it, we have not conducted an interstate transfer. Not even if by some circumstance the gun and the money change hands right there.

 

[KC80113]

I was just told that the current Carver COP is a member of the local gun club.

Do you still want to believe that he revokes everyone's LTC when they move into Carver and refuses to issue to residents?

That guy must have done something to get that "special treatment"! My bet is he failed to notify on moving and Weymouth pulled his LTC, as allowed by MGL!

This was not recent...this was several years ago. It was NOT The current COP. The notification of moving WAS the trigger of the problem....thats is why he moved back.

 

[KC80113]

This happened years ago - it was after I moved to MA in 98. Not sure of EXACT year.

 

[KC80113]

Sucks that this is a public forum and people here are seemingly a tad paranoid...someone commented on another thread about not trusting people that "just joined" and not sending them PMs for that reason.

Any former LEO would know that a decent undercover would spend yrs on a board like this to gain trust before looking for any "seeecrets" the people here may have. For the most part, I've been treated OK here - but I have rec'd a couple of snarky comments.

How I long for the days of usenet groups and PGP encryption...at least once you became part of "the group," people generally treated you as "one of the group."

 

[Len-2A Training]

This was not recent...this was several years ago. It was NOT The current COP. The notification of moving WAS the trigger of the problem....thats is why he moved back.

I can believe that Skoog did this, but she's been gone a long time now. You posted this in a way that implied that this was currently the way things are done in Carver and that is misleading.

 

[KC80113]

Apologies

Apologies if I wasn't specific.

I do know I said "years ago" when I referenced the incident.

I posted in a couple of places (since I am looking for info that seems VERY difficult to find out...) so if I didn't say it here in THIS particular thread, I truly apologize.

Just to re-clarify - this happened sometime AFTER 1998, but before 2003...

 

[Kevlar]

Simple: the plain text of the excerpt you posted would make it illegal for a non-FFL to ever take any gun across a state line. You know that's not true, so go find the rest of the language.

There are, of course, exemptions, which is why I stated "generally".

However, none of them are relevant in this particular scenario.

I posted the link to the statute, you can read it for yourself.

If my NH neighbor and I are standing in Harvard Square (perish the thought) and I offer to buy a gun of his, and he agrees to sell it, we have not conducted an interstate transfer. Not even if by some circumstance the gun and the money change hands right there.

Agreed, but the physical transfer of the firearm is not the issue here, per se.

922(a)(3) prohibits the interstate transport of that firearm, as it was acquired outside the State in which he resides, and the manner in which he acquired it does not fall under one of the enumerated exemptions.

The elements of the crime are simply:

1. He purchased or obtained a firearm outside New Hampshire, his state of residence; and
2. He transported that firearm into New Hampshire; and
3. He is unlicensed (non-FFL).