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MA AG Overreach Thread - Part 2
- Thread starter DarthRevan
- Start date
I'm holding out some slim hope that the butthurt from her ram job may have some repercussions .
We're not going away and now they have to deal with us because of her.
Most of them like things to cruise along at status quo.
We're not going away and now they have to deal with us because of her.
Most of them like things to cruise along at status quo.
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There are people on here who understand these issues much better than I do, so feel free to correct me if I am missing the point.
I think the AG's ruling has put gun control supporters in the legislature in an odd position. They can't add her changes into the laws because that would be an admission that the current law does not mean what she says. And to get a law written and brought to a vote would require open discussion of this point. Also, if they pass a new law, then that would pretty much admit that all previous conduct was legal.
So as badly as she has screwed gun owners, she has put her supporters in a bad position as well. It makes sense that the democratic legislative leadership won't touch the whole issue.
Am I missing something here?
I think the AG's ruling has put gun control supporters in the legislature in an odd position. They can't add her changes into the laws because that would be an admission that the current law does not mean what she says. And to get a law written and brought to a vote would require open discussion of this point. Also, if they pass a new law, then that would pretty much admit that all previous conduct was legal.
So as badly as she has screwed gun owners, she has put her supporters in a bad position as well. It makes sense that the democratic legislative leadership won't touch the whole issue.
Am I missing something here?
Individualist
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DeLeo and Rosenthal will make sure that nothing happens in the legislature. There is no overwhelming public or political driver pressuring them to take any kind of action. It will just be whatever she says it will be.
The cleanest solution would have been for the Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security, or the Judiciary to declare that she overstepped her authority with respect to Ch 93A. No general vote. No new laws or mods to existing law.
The cleanest solution would have been for the Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security, or the Judiciary to declare that she overstepped her authority with respect to Ch 93A. No general vote. No new laws or mods to existing law.
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NorthShore
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We should probably organize a telephone blitz once a week to all offices such as the Governor, AG, State Reps etc. The call is simple - we haven't forgotten, we are unhappy, we are expecting results and we won't forget about this during the reelection cycle if you do nothing.
Our elected officials probably feel the pressure is off since nothing has happened in some time - they need to be harassed and kept guessing.
Our elected officials probably feel the pressure is off since nothing has happened in some time - they need to be harassed and kept guessing.
hv55maxx
NES Member
I agree, if the court case is won the Legislature steps in and re-affirms her "ban" legislatively. They aren't giving up this ground. This was all orchestrated with the Governor, leaders of the Legislature, etc.
I also think they are going to start prosecuting assault weapons owners under this directive. Not broad based but targeted. They'll find the right people to jam up and then try to scare as many of us as possible into selling them out of state to not wind similarly jammed up.
I also think they are going to start prosecuting assault weapons owners under this directive. Not broad based but targeted. They'll find the right people to jam up and then try to scare as many of us as possible into selling them out of state to not wind similarly jammed up.
And they will laugh in our faces. Look at the ballots for tomorrow, almost nobody is being opposed in this election cycle, so they will all be back to work in January with or without our votes.
Bingo!
So how do we turn up the public pressure? I assume that nobody here will volunteer for a hunger strike and I think it is safe to say that no FFL will challenge her 'opinion'. Put on your thinking caps folks, we can come up with something.
Human chain around the state house with everyone handcuffed together?
Series of "coming out" videos to show that all AR / AK owners are not terrorists?
Constitution burial ceremony on Boston Common. It has died in MA. Complete with headstone. Imagine the eulogies maybe from some high profile people! That might get some attention
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Last night at one of my gun club's annual meeting, a State Rep (R) and fellow club member attended and I asked him outright what the odds are of a legislative solution in the next session (2017-18) . . . the answer was "less than zero"! As he said, they will file bills to correct it, they will be sent off to committees, hearings will be held (required by law) and they will never, ever get on the floor to be voted on!!
The only way out of this is thru the courts. Send your money to Comm2A!!! They are working with the other national orgs to come up with a plan to attack this in Federal Court.
The only way out of this is thru the courts. Send your money to Comm2A!!! They are working with the other national orgs to come up with a plan to attack this in Federal Court.
nightpoison
NES Member
Ok so what do we do? The answer seems to be, is to get more people with an R next to their name running on these tickets???? How do we make that happen. I know Jeff Kuhner, I think it was him, ran a workshop on how to run for office during the 2012 election cycle I believe. .
What about right here in our own back yard, There are a number of people here on the forum that are legal and common sense savvy. Len what about you? and others, what is holding us back from grass rooting new candidates to oppose these seats?
What about right here in our own back yard, There are a number of people here on the forum that are legal and common sense savvy. Len what about you? and others, what is holding us back from grass rooting new candidates to oppose these seats?
Bingo!
So how do we turn up the public pressure? I assume that nobody here will volunteer for a hunger strike and I think it is safe to say that no FFL will challenge her 'opinion'. Put on your thinking caps folks, we can come up with something.
Human chain around the state house with everyone handcuffed together?
Series of "coming out" videos to show that all AR / AK owners are not terrorists?
Constitution burial ceremony on Boston Common. It has died in MA. Complete with headstone. Imagine the eulogies maybe from some high profile people! That might get some attention
How about a mass registration of previously owned but unbuilt lowers, pick a target date, build them up, and register the ARs on the same day....IMO, our pols are like a dog that decided to shit on the carpet. It would be nice to rub their nose in it.
Thanks for the confidence, I appreciate that, but no.
I've seen the dirt in politics first-hand back in 1968 and over the years at the state house. Back when I either worked in Boston or went to grad school there, I used to drop in on my state rep (later he became state sen) frequently . . . as I told him, many people go into politics for the right reason (to help people, make things right) but quickly learn that they have to always compromise their values to get anywhere/get anything done and eventually they become corrupt. His response was "I'm not a politician" when we had that talk in his office. Over the years I saw him change drastically and he certainly became a politician. He's now in DC doing his thing with the big boys. There is no way in hell I ever want to go there, I don't compromise my values . . . my personal integrity is all that I have of any real value.
Over the years in my town I was approached and asked to run for selectmen, school committee (that was a joke, I have no kids and thus limited knowledge of what goes on there), etc. and I've staunchly said that I would only run for town meeting member if we ever went to RTM, but otherwise I only take appointed positions in the town.
In addition, as soon as I can convince my Wife to attempt to work at home 3-4 days/week (since last month she now works at home 2 days/week) and move to NH, I plan on bugging out of this hell-hole.
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The bills will be there but the way the system is setup, it takes only ONE person (House Speaker or Senate President) to KILL any bill. Guess what?
amm5061
NES Member
Honestly, why bother to eFA10 anything anymore? Clearly the laws make no difference now and are only what Healey says they are, not what they are actually written and intended as.
Agreed and it's fine to be angry, but we need to acknowledge this and re-focus our energies on a method that stands a chance of success, and sadly legislation isn't it until we gain a majority in the House and Senate . . . perhaps but many years from now.
Horrible
NES Member
Legislation by FAQ that can change on a whim of a tyrant. The rule of law is DEAD in MA (in the US if you look at how Killary skated by with multiple criminal violations while others got nailed to the wall for FAR LESS!)
The reason is to rub their face in as many AR registrations on the same day as possible. We know they are watching the system in real time.
MachineHead
NES Member
Problem is that no dealer would refuse to FA10 and not every gun owner would refuse to FA10 a gun built from a frame. Civil disobedience of this magnitude would not work out in numbers that would make any difference.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MetalgodZ
NES Member
What GOAL is doing (grading, lobbying, minor PR stuff from a person who knows how to work an interview) places our allies in a position where they feel they need to remain accountable. Any major deviation would lose them a sizeable chunk of support that would put them at a disadvantage in a general election. They also are the largest current organizing force available to us in the state, since the NRA refuses to assist us in most cases, and has proven detrimental in others. Whatever else supplements their work, GOAL needs to remain supported and funded for this.
What Comm2A is doing is the single most likely method of getting laws and enforcement fixed in the state. I don't like the fact that that's the case, and that could change drastically based on the next 4-8 years, but at the moment that's the reality of the situation. Again, whatever else supplements their work, Comm2A needs to remain supported and funded.
We need expansion in 4 areas that I can see: GOAL's reach & membership, elections/candidates, "hardball" lobbying, and jamming of the Bloomberg-funded "grassroots" movements.
- GOAL's reach is insufficient. Membership numbers versus licensed gun owners and my informal polling of politically aligned people indicate that most people outside of the NES/GOAL/Comm2A nexus don't even know about GOAL, much less the AG's most recent antics. We can play with the voting margins with the numbers we have now, but effectiveness will be less, and inconsistent. We need to gain the attention, support, and votes of literally hundreds of thousands of people. Off the top of my head, the only suggestions I can provide are that the messaging needs to be be stripped of anything not related SOLELY to 2A (and hunting), and then slowly expanded to include groups & messaging that wouldn't normally intersect*. At the same time, we need to help GOAL reach the people that it hasn't already...And I'm not sure of the best way of doing that.
- Elections are being run in this state with ZERO opposition. This needs to change, even if the candidates that are running are not serious candidates. Forcing antis to either continuously fund campaigning or to change rules in ways that exclude the moderates of their own parties can only help us. This wouldn't require more than a couple dozen people across the state, plus the combined forces of NES/GOAL/party (R or D) to gain the minimum required signatures to get people on ballots.
- Hardball "lobbying" seems to me to be something that orgs other than the NRA are good at. There was a thread a while back about NAGR, and while I'm not sure that they're the best people for the job in MA, the interviews I've seen that detail the results of their lobbying seem to indicate that the tactic has some merit if applied properly. They also get the "winning by the margin" strategy**. Large number of people required, though, in addition to the major difficulty of building the network within the state and NOT stepping on GOAL's toes. (Did I mention I that NAGR might not be the best people for this. FACL would be good to look at - https://facl-training.org/)
- Jamming is a whole other front that I've heard talked about but don't see applied. Think Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals." Large impact with a small number of people, but lots of time required with zero compensation, a serious need to be able to think on your feet, an absolute requirement that you're able to control your emotions and say things to people that you don't believe. Even a dozen people spread across the state, concentrated in the areas where Bloomberg's activity is greatest, would be enough. Join, establish yourself, and then 1) vacuum up as much information as you can, 2) get into a position where you can (un)coordinate people by providing legitimate-looking bad information and/or messaging, 3) get into a position where you can deliver "their message" with an audience and "screw up" the message, or 4) some combination. This one is probably the toughest, but potentially the best shot at dismantling casual support for MDA/Bloomberg. The potential for blowback is huge, the potential for personal safety problems is high, and the time & personal investment are substantial...So don't go starting this stuff unless you're willing to be honest with yourself about your temperament / talent / current public exposure, and do it right. (Still, if you ARE interested in this or know someone who is, shoot me a PM.)
*(Go to Twitter and start crawling the #blackgunsmatter posts to see what I mean.)
**(https://www.nationalgunrights.org/about-nagr/strategy)
What Comm2A is doing is the single most likely method of getting laws and enforcement fixed in the state. I don't like the fact that that's the case, and that could change drastically based on the next 4-8 years, but at the moment that's the reality of the situation. Again, whatever else supplements their work, Comm2A needs to remain supported and funded.
We need expansion in 4 areas that I can see: GOAL's reach & membership, elections/candidates, "hardball" lobbying, and jamming of the Bloomberg-funded "grassroots" movements.
- GOAL's reach is insufficient. Membership numbers versus licensed gun owners and my informal polling of politically aligned people indicate that most people outside of the NES/GOAL/Comm2A nexus don't even know about GOAL, much less the AG's most recent antics. We can play with the voting margins with the numbers we have now, but effectiveness will be less, and inconsistent. We need to gain the attention, support, and votes of literally hundreds of thousands of people. Off the top of my head, the only suggestions I can provide are that the messaging needs to be be stripped of anything not related SOLELY to 2A (and hunting), and then slowly expanded to include groups & messaging that wouldn't normally intersect*. At the same time, we need to help GOAL reach the people that it hasn't already...And I'm not sure of the best way of doing that.
- Elections are being run in this state with ZERO opposition. This needs to change, even if the candidates that are running are not serious candidates. Forcing antis to either continuously fund campaigning or to change rules in ways that exclude the moderates of their own parties can only help us. This wouldn't require more than a couple dozen people across the state, plus the combined forces of NES/GOAL/party (R or D) to gain the minimum required signatures to get people on ballots.
- Hardball "lobbying" seems to me to be something that orgs other than the NRA are good at. There was a thread a while back about NAGR, and while I'm not sure that they're the best people for the job in MA, the interviews I've seen that detail the results of their lobbying seem to indicate that the tactic has some merit if applied properly. They also get the "winning by the margin" strategy**. Large number of people required, though, in addition to the major difficulty of building the network within the state and NOT stepping on GOAL's toes. (Did I mention I that NAGR might not be the best people for this. FACL would be good to look at - https://facl-training.org/)
- Jamming is a whole other front that I've heard talked about but don't see applied. Think Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals." Large impact with a small number of people, but lots of time required with zero compensation, a serious need to be able to think on your feet, an absolute requirement that you're able to control your emotions and say things to people that you don't believe. Even a dozen people spread across the state, concentrated in the areas where Bloomberg's activity is greatest, would be enough. Join, establish yourself, and then 1) vacuum up as much information as you can, 2) get into a position where you can (un)coordinate people by providing legitimate-looking bad information and/or messaging, 3) get into a position where you can deliver "their message" with an audience and "screw up" the message, or 4) some combination. This one is probably the toughest, but potentially the best shot at dismantling casual support for MDA/Bloomberg. The potential for blowback is huge, the potential for personal safety problems is high, and the time & personal investment are substantial...So don't go starting this stuff unless you're willing to be honest with yourself about your temperament / talent / current public exposure, and do it right. (Still, if you ARE interested in this or know someone who is, shoot me a PM.)
*(Go to Twitter and start crawling the #blackgunsmatter posts to see what I mean.)
**(https://www.nationalgunrights.org/about-nagr/strategy)
MetalgodZ
NES Member
I'm not joking. Be honest with me and yourself, and shoot me a PM if you're interested.
Not going to invest a ton of effort into this until I get enough response, but I think that with a small number of people, we could actually cause some embarrassment.
This is the single biggest factor in my opinion. It's been a while since I checked the stats, but somewhere around 70-80% of legislative races in MA are unopposed. The national average is somewhere around 35%. It's crazy.
That is exactly how they want it. The power keeps itself entrenched that way so they can accumulate their pensions, benefits and overreach of all that goes on in the state. You've seen how few people actually make the decision/difference up on the hill.
I'm thankful that at least on the South Shore there are usually some challengers.
I for one appreciate the AG's efforts to enhance my safety by providing me the full protection of the law, only the exact opposite.
http://newbostonpost.com/2016/09/09...rt-filing-nets-support-of-11-other-state-ags/
BOSTON — The ongoing feud between Attorney General Maura Healey and ExxonMobil escalated Friday, as the oil giant fired back again with a state Superior Court filing urging a judge to toss aside her civil investigation demand on the grounds it is biased and without evidence and born out of collusion with various political factions.
At the same time in Texas, 11 state attorneys generals have said they will sign an amicus brief intended to be filed in federal court in Dallas, joining that state’s Attorney General Ken Paxton in claiming that Healey has violated her constitutional authority by working to silence different viewpoints on climate change.
BOSTON — The ongoing feud between Attorney General Maura Healey and ExxonMobil escalated Friday, as the oil giant fired back again with a state Superior Court filing urging a judge to toss aside her civil investigation demand on the grounds it is biased and without evidence and born out of collusion with various political factions.
At the same time in Texas, 11 state attorneys generals have said they will sign an amicus brief intended to be filed in federal court in Dallas, joining that state’s Attorney General Ken Paxton in claiming that Healey has violated her constitutional authority by working to silence different viewpoints on climate change.
