LTC-Class A w/restrictions???

[jhblaze1]

This is the only license that allows an individual to carry a concealed weapon if authorized by the licensing authority.This license supercedes Class D,C,and B licenses.

IF authorized by the licensing authority. IF authorized by the licensing authority. IF authorized by the licensing authority. IF authorized by the licensing authority. IF authorized by the licensing authority. IF authorized by the licensing authority.

If the license is restricted, you are NOT AUTHORIZED BY THE LICENSING AUTHORITY....

 

[kevin9]

IF authorized by the licensing authority. IF authorized by the licensing authority. IF authorized by the licensing authority. IF authorized by the licensing authority. IF authorized by the licensing authority. IF authorized by the licensing authority.

If the license is restricted, you are NOT AUTHORIZED BY THE LICENSING AUTHORITY....

This is the key part 38specialD. The question is whether the chief in your town who issued your license allows carrying to and from authorized sporting activities. Apparently some chiefs do and some do not. Probably the best thing to do is to contact your chief who issued your license and ask him/her directly. It might be best to do this in writing so you have proof in case something happens.

 

[Scrivener]

I sincerely doubt the chief intended the holder of a RESTRICTED license to carry anywhere but the range, else he would NOT have restricted the license.

This is true whether it's Westwood (where this poster is from), Plainville (last week's post), Brookline, Watertown or any other municipality issuing a restricted LTC.

 

[38specialD]

jh go to GOAL and read!!!!Better yet here it is..TRANSPORTING IN A VEHICLE:The law specifies how certain types of guns are to be transported. Handguns under a CLASS A LICENSE: "No person carrying a loaded firearm [i.e.handgun] under a CLASS A LICENSE to carry firearms.....shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under direct control of such person." [Chapter 140, section 131C] Handguns on a CLASS B LICENSE: "NO person carrying a firearm under a CLASS B LICENSE to carry firearms shall possess the same unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container." {Chapter 140, section 131C}. No mention of any restrictions.Just the difference between CLASS A and B.Now you tell me where it says that I cant carry it on me when going to the range!!!!!!

 

[38specialD]

Scrivener that was my question.Im not trying to be a wise ass but where does it say that I cant carry it on me to and from the range?This is all I wanted to do in the first place.I know I cant carry it on me all the time,going shopping or going to the movies but if leaving my house to go shooting at the range why not?

 

[jdubois]

[Chapter 140, section 131C] ... Now you tell me where it says that I cant carry it on me when going to the range!!!!!!

Ok, let's say you won this one in court and you weren't fined the $500-$5K penalty under Section 131C. So what? You'd still be charged under Section 131, have your license revoked, and be fined $1K-$10K for violating a restriction imposed by your licensing authority.

 

[kevin9]

I sincerely doubt the chief intended the holder of a RESTRICTED license to carry anywhere but the range, else he would NOT have restricted the license.

This is true whether it's Westwood (where this poster is from), Plainville (last week's post), Brookline, Watertown or any other municipality issuing a restricted LTC.

If the chief is using these definitions then it appears that carrying to and from sporting activities IS allowed:

Sporting: Restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; and for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns); and for outdoor recreational activities such as hiking, camping, cross country skiing, or similar activities. Includes travel to and from activity location.

What his chief meant by his restriction is something the OP has to determine for himself.

jh go to GOAL and read!!!!Better yet here it is..TRANSPORTING IN A VEHICLE:The law specifies how certain types of guns are to be transported. Handguns under a CLASS A LICENSE: "No person carrying a loaded firearm [i.e.handgun] under a CLASS A LICENSE to carry firearms.....shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under direct control of such person." [Chapter 140, section 131C] Handguns on a CLASS B LICENSE: "NO person carrying a firearm under a CLASS B LICENSE to carry firearms shall possess the same unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container." {Chapter 140, section 131C}. No mention of any restrictions.Just the difference between CLASS A and B.Now you tell me where it says that I cant carry it on me when going to the range!!!!!!

Read and apply all the laws. The restrictions allowed for in S131 can be more stringent than what is allowed according to S131C. If your chief did not mean your Sporting restriction to include travel to and from approved events then you cannot legally do so.

Contact your chief and ask: That's the only way you are going to get a definitive answer.

 

[jhblaze1]

Oh my F-ing God. WTF do you think a restriction is, guy?? Read the statute again where it clearly in plain English says, "Chapter 140: Section 131. Licenses to carry firearms; Class A and B; conditions and restrictions


Section 131. All licenses to carry firearms shall be designated Class A or Class B, and the issuance and possession of any such license shall be subject to the following conditions and restrictions:

(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper;

Do you know what a restriction is? Your license is restricted to shooting at the range. No concealed carry is allowed with a neutered license, period. Ask Scrivener (a firearms lawyer) or Cross X (also a lawyer specializing in firearms law)..Why come on here and ask the question and then disagree with all of the answers you are getting. Sounds to me like you are just looking for people to agree with you so you can affirm your ignorant interpretation of the law. Go ahead guy carry concealed to the range you probably won't get caught. But if/when you do, don't come crying to NES looking for sympathy. You WILL lose your license and have to surrender your guns and face shit loads of $$ in fines. Not worth the risk if you ask me, but do whatever you want, sounds like you already made up your mind anyway...

Sorry if I'm coming off like a prick but i dont know what else to tell you...

jh go to GOAL and read!!!!Better yet here it is..TRANSPORTING IN A VEHICLE:The law specifies how certain types of guns are to be transported. Handguns under a CLASS A LICENSE: "No person carrying a loaded firearm [i.e.handgun] under a CLASS A LICENSE to carry firearms.....shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under direct control of such person." [Chapter 140, section 131C] Handguns on a CLASS B LICENSE: "NO person carrying a firearm under a CLASS B LICENSE to carry firearms shall possess the same unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container." {Chapter 140, section 131C}. No mention of any restrictions.Just the difference between CLASS A and B.Now you tell me where it says that I cant carry it on me when going to the range!!!!!!

 

[isr2kba]

Ok, let's say you won this one in court and you weren't fined the $500-$5K penalty under Section 131C. So what? You'd still be charged under Section 131, have your license revoked, and be fined $1K-$10K for violating a restriction imposed by your licensing authority.

Well it might not be that bad. The chief, upon finding out that your interpretation of the restriction differs from his, might simply decide that you are an usuitable person, revoke your license and be done with it.

Then you would have no license, no guns and no further reason to ponder the restriction. You would have lots of time to contemplate a move to Alaska or VT or some other state where you don't have to apply for a license (because I bet any place you do, they will see you were revoked).

I saw a really cool lockbox at the local dealer that is all steel, fits one handgun, has a built in cable lock to secure it around a vehicle mounted D-ring or seat frame and costs $24.95.

 

[jdubois]

What his chief meant by his restriction is something the OP has to determine for himself.

+1. I think Kevin has the only real answer to this question. Everything else is just talk...

 

[38specialD]

I just called the LEO who issued me the license and he stated yes you can carry it to and from the range.

 

[vellnueve]

The MA definition of "carry" is different from most normal people's definition of "carry"

 

[abiffmaster]

I just called the LEO who issued me the license and he stated yes you can carry it to and from the range.

Even if you had the LEO put this in writing and notarized(he will never do this) and kept on you at all times you will be in trouble if stopped and found to be carrying on a neutered license. Regardless of what the LEO who issued it says. The law is the law and the LEO is misinterpreting it. The LEO is not a lawyer and clearly shouldn't be interpreting the law. He doesn't care anyway because its not his A$$ that will be in the slammer.

Here's what's worse. Lets say you are "traveling to the range" and you are in need of having to use your weapon. What then? In any event, be sure to contact Scrivener ahead of time and put all his contact information in your cellphone as you will be needing it someday.

 

[BDDonovan]

could you of confused the words "to-and-from" with the word "at?" becauuse you can carry holstered at the range.

 

[doobie]

I spent my last $250.00 on a License To Carry

I hope the extra $150 was for a lawyer or you got screwed.

Not to piss you off dwarvin1 but Im going to carry my gun to and from the range in a holster!!!!!I have a LTC meaning a License To Carry to and from the range.I did the research and it does not say I cant!!!!If they take it away so be it!!!!

Make sure you have the number for a lawyer on you when you are caught. They'll do a bit more than 'take it away' when you are caught. You'll be included; most likely along with your rights to firearm ownership in any other state and a larger chuck of money.

 

[WayneWong]

I'm trying to be objective here. We all pretty much agree that a restriction is anything the issuing authority wants it to be. No where are any of the restrictions defined. Hence, this LEO's interpretation that it's OK to carry to the range, and the issuing "dispatcher" of another department saying concealed carry is OK with a restriction.

The clarity of the restriction is limited by the computer program drop down box or the number of characters the program field will accept, or the accompanying letter to the holder.

The problem is, and has already been discussed, is that the OP gets pulled over on a traffic violation on Rte 95 and the trooper becomes aware of the sidearm and inspects the license. He's either cool with it, or he takes it to the next level.

Now the OP gets dragged into an investigation and may find himself facing a judge and an expensive fine. For me, it's not worth operating in this gray area.

Really, I was told by my PD the exact same thing that the OP was, as was Smitty1.

The law is f*cked. Absolutely insane. If the OP wants to carry concealed to the range, I would urge him to get a letter from his chief authorizing him to do this, and having it available to present to any PO who's ready to drag him into the darkness of the criminal justice system.


Or, he could become a murderer or rapist and be assured of sympathy and positive consideration by any number of judicial nut jobs in this so called "commonwealth"

 

[isr2kba]

Here's what's worse. Lets say you are "traveling to the range" and you are in need of having to use your weapon. What then?

What then is that it no longer matters what type of license you have or indeed if you have a license at all. What then is that your life as you know is over. What then is that you get a new mortgage to defend yourself and a civil suit hanging over your head that threatens to try to take all.

My life is worth it. Your life is worth it, but it gets really expensive. In MA, it's a lot cheaper to take a bullet than shoot one into someone else.

 

[Scrivener]

We all pretty much agree that a restriction is anything the issuing authority wants it to be. No where are any of the restrictions defined.

I disagree. While a chief is free to fabricate and impose whatever restrictions s/he feels like, words have meanings. What part of "RESTRICTED" do these cops or the posters not comprehend?

If the chief intended to permit concealed carry, the license would say "Restrictions" None" or, perhaps "Protection." "Target & Hunting," "Sport" and the like are clearly intended to restrict the licensee to certain activities. General concealed carry is, with equal clarity, NOT permitted.

The clarity of the restriction is limited by the computer program drop down box or the number of characters the program field will accept, or the accompanying letter to the holder.

Or a dictionary.....

Really, I was told by my PD the exact same thing that the OP was, as was Smitty1 [i.e., that each can carry concealed on a restricted LTC/A].

A cop who tells a licensee that they can carry concealed, regardless of restriction, simply because the LTC is an "A" is a fool or a liar - perhaps both.

A licensee who believes such drivel when law, logic and language all say otherwise is equally foolish and deserves the consequences of such self-delusion.

 

[kevin9]

Even if you had the LEO put this in writing and notarized(he will never do this) and kept on you at all times you will be in trouble if stopped and found to be carrying on a neutered license. Regardless of what the LEO who issued it says. The law is the law and the LEO is misinterpreting it. The LEO is not a lawyer and clearly shouldn't be interpreting the law. He doesn't care anyway because its not his A$$ that will be in the slammer.

IANAL but here's what the law actually says:

Chapter 140: Section 131. Licenses to carry firearms; Class A and B; conditions and restrictions. Section 131. All licenses to carry firearms shall be designated Class A or Class B, and the issuance and possession of any such license shall be subject to the following conditions and restrictions:
(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper; and (ii) rifles and shotguns, including large capacity weapons, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes; provided, however, that the licensing authority may impose such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of large capacity rifles and shotguns as it deems proper. A violation of a restriction imposed by the licensing authority under the provisions of this paragraph shall be cause for suspension or revocation and shall, unless otherwise provided, be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000; provided, however, that the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269 shall not apply to such violation.

Note the underlined section. That means the restrictions mean whatever the licensing authority says they mean. AFAIK nowhere do the laws or regulations define specific restrictions. The closest are the definitions in Chief Glidden's guidelines, but those are just guidelines. If the OP's chief says that his restriction allows him to carry back and forth to the range then that is the definition of the restriction on the OP's license. It might be good for him to get it in writing in the event of being hassled by someone who does not understand the law, but what his issuing authority has told him does appear to be IAW the law.

Here's what's worse. Lets say you are "traveling to the range" and you are in need of having to use your weapon. What then? In any event, be sure to contact Scrivener ahead of time and put all his contact information in your cellphone as you will be needing it someday.

That's good advice regardless, to have the name and number of a competent firearms attorney on your person, although in this case it sounds like his chief ascribes to the Gliddden definition in which case he probably is OK. Even if not, better to be judged by 12 than buried by 6.

 

[kevin9]

General concealed carry is, with equal clarity, NOT permitted.

Agreed. However, what I read is that the OP's issuing authority told him he could carry to and from range, not that he could concealed carry anywhere he wanted to. If the OP wanders off to the store or the ballpark or anywhere else not on the way between his house and the range he is going to/from then he has broken the restriction and is subject to prosecution if caught.

 

[pdm]

Note the underlined section. That means the restrictions mean whatever the licensing authority says they mean.

That's great, but useless since it can change depending on the phase of the moon. One more reason why 351 variations on one law is a bad idea.

 

[Jaxon]

Wow, the things I miss on the weekends...

 

[WayneWong]

I disagree. While a chief is free to fabricate and impose whatever restrictions s/he feels like, words have meanings....

The chief is the one who will ultimately pull the "offender's" license at great expense to the poor bastard who made the mistake.

Words have meanings, but they are ultimately taken in some context. We are fighting over the meaning of the second amendment even though the words to most of us on both sides are quite clear. People tend to see only what they believe

"Target and Hunting" is admittedly a bit more cut and dried. My LTC says "sporting." I asked for "sporting and recreation" specifically "rather than" T&H because I knew ALP wasn't going to happen. I wanted to take it out hiking and camping so I wouldn't get bitten or robbed out in the middle of Asscrack Forest. Now it seems like I am screwed - but only in Mass - What activities do you consider "sporting"?

My solution is to use my LTC to buy my sidearms here, practice, and train, and take the hour or so trip up to NH or Maine and use my non-resident permits to recreate outside in their nature. There's not a lot of pristine beauty in eastern Mass anyway, except maybe Chelsea and Revere Beach.


I also wrote my chief for his interpretation because I really have nothing to lose by asking, but I am not holding my breath waiting for a response. So whatever.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

so, has 38SpecialD been arrested yet?

 

[clinotus]

I just thought of another one what if you dont DRIVE at all?Say I live 2 Blocks away from the range and I cant drive what then?

Gold Jerry, Gold.

I just called the LEO who issued me the license and he stated yes you can carry it to and from the range.

I understand your confusion, but as others have pointed out the interpretation and advice you have gotten from the lawyer and the LEO seem a bit out of touch with the nuances of the laws.

You do have a valid point for carrying to and from the range though and I think at this point you would be better served calling and asking the Chief himself, and further to that getting it in writing so that if you are walking down the street with a rifle case the worst doesnt happen to you.

 

[Scrivener]

You do have a valid point for carrying to and from the range though and I think at this point you would be better served calling and asking the Chief himself, and further to that getting it in writing so that if you are walking down the street with a rifle case the worst doesnt happen to you.

Why would one need an LTC just to go "walking down the street with a rifle case?" Unless that case contains a "high capacity" long arm, one would not need an LTC at all.

And carrying a gun in case is not "carrying" in the sense addressed by s. 131.

 

[38specialD]

Most all of you said that I cant carry it on me..So therefore I would have to lock it in a trunk or some sort of container.But the law says that it is supposed to be out of my reach.Right?Therefore I would have to tie some sort of string or rope and drag it behind me.I'm six feet tall and when I raise my hands up it comes to about 92 inches.So when I go down to my local hardware stoe I will buy a pice of string 108 inches long just to be on the safe side and I will attach the string to the case I will buy for 40 dollars that one of the members turned me on to.I will also buy 4 little wheels so I can attach them to my new case.I dont want to scrape and dent the new case I just bought by dragging it down the street on the sidewalk.Some of the sidewalks where I live are kind of bumpy.One thing I cant figure out is what about the ammo?Well let me work on my carrying case and get that all taken care of before I tackle the issue.I will take pics so I can post them for the other members that have CLASS A LICENSE TO CARRY/WITH RESTRICIONS/TARGET AND HUNTING,SPORTING.

 

[rhk118]

Stoopid Question: Will an FID card be enough to take your gun to a shooting range (locked up in the trunk unloaded...yadda yadda...)? Or does one need Class A or B LTC? (planning on going for Class A, but as I see it worst case scenario is FID card)

 

[38specialD]

Sorry about the spelling errors I dropped one of my wheels on the keyboard and I think I broke a couple of letters..

 

[jhblaze1]

Stoopid Question: Will an FID card be enough to take your gun to a shooting range (locked up in the trunk unloaded...yadda yadda...)? Or does one need Class A or B LTC? (planning on going for Class A, but as I see it worst case scenario is FID card)

if it's a handgun, you need an LTC. FID is only for non Hi Cap long guns.

All you have to do is go to mass.gov and search for firearms laws or gun laws, and read a little.

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopssub...rms+Registration+&+Laws&L2=Gun+Laws&sid=Eeops

It really is that easy.