LTC application with supposedly expunged record

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I have a friend who is interested in applying for his LTC. At age 18, he was arrested for possession of alcohol and possession of marijuana. He was found 1 year probation continued without finding. After 1 year he returned to the courthouse to file the paperwork and then went to both the DA and the arresting PD to have his record expunged. This occurred in Rhode Island. He's currently 29 with nothing more than a speeding ticket since and a homeowner in Taunton, MA.

His question is does he need to put this incident on the application and if so would that automatically disqualify him. Or is he to go under the assumption that he has no record and does not need to put it on the application? Thanks for any help.
 
I think when anybody has a question reguarding LTC application, it is already past time to lawyer up. Just my two cents. Good luck to your friend.
 
...arrested for possession of alcohol and possession of marijuana. He was found 1 year probation continued without finding. His question is does he need to put this incident on the application...Or is he to go under the assumption that he has no record and does not need to put it on the application?

LTC Application said:
10. Have you ever appeared in any court as a defendant for any criminal offense (excluding non-criminal traffic offenses)?

The answer seems clear. That said, I would advise him to speak with an attorney.
 
Getting something expunged is next to impossible. With a CWOF the disposition was probably dismissed but not expunged. I woud definately mention it as CWOF's are still a court appearence. The good news is that a CWOF is not a conviction (as long as he lived up to his terms of probation). There are plenty of people who get their licesne with this type of record. Of course the caveat is the whole suitability issue
 
Once again, my mantra is for him to GO to the court he was arraigned in and get a copy of his Docket Sheet and the case. Then he should consult a Firearms Atty familiar with these type issues. Two names come up: Keith Langer (admitted to the MA & RI Bar) and Jesse Cohen (admitted to the MA Bar) for advice on how to answer this and put his best foot forward. It'll cost probably $1-200 for the consultation, but can avoid appealing a denial which would be more costly.

I also doubt that it was expunged. Most likely it was "sealed", so it won't be visible to the average query, BUT LE queries turn up EVERYTHING, no matter what he was told. He must be honest or he'll DQ himself for lying on the application.
 
Hi Jimbo- Honesty is the best policy. I would have him list everything, as the application asks for.

Sadly, with a minor drug posession charge, I do not forsee a favorable outcome in Massachusetts.
 
The answer seems clear. That said, I would advise him to speak with an attorney.

Actually, the answer is unclear.

Expungements in many states bear with them the concept of a "legal fiction" - which means one is allowed to answer "no" to any question about arrest, charge or conviction without it it being legally considered lie. That being said, there are few police departments that accept this legal concept when it comes to LTC applicants so, while it may provide a viable defense to a charge about lying on the application, it is not likely to play out well if the applicant relies on this concept and is discovered.

Sadly, with a minor drug posession charge, I do not forsee a favorable outcome in Massachusetts.
It all depends on the issuing authority, as long as it's not a conviction.

Getting something expunged is next to impossible. With a CWOF the disposition was probably dismissed but not expunged.
This varies by state, although you comment is quite valid for MA. I don't know how it works in the state where this happened (RI).
 
I wonder though.... when I went for my LTC me and the Lt. were talking during the process. I had a stupid mis-hap with Progressive Insurance they never notified the DOT that I had insurance.... no notice from the DOT either... driving home from work a Stoneham PD cruiser riding behind me runs my plate and it comes up UN-Registered... So I went to court for it I didnt get a ticket I got a summons to court and a tow of my vehicle... So I was asking the cop if I should put that down he said NO its a "criminal" offense LIKE IT DID SAY on the summons, but it was traffic related and it got appealed and I suffered no ramifications for it... and they considered that nothing anyway

He told me a story about when he first took over doing the interview process and licensing, there was a license issued to a individual who had a arrest when he was younger in another state for marijuana he failed to list that on his application amd he also had his last name mis-spelled (i.e. smith, smyth) on the app. HE GOT HIS LTC A. Since the arrest happened in another state under a different name it never came up. Then when going to purchase a firearm from a dealer they call the Fed and they tell him he is Fed Prohibited due to prior drug charge. Then the feds called issuing PD and wanted to know how he got the LTC. They reviewed the app and found he with held the arrest OUT OF STATE info. And the Mis-spelled name. His LTC was revoked obviously...
 
Then he should consult a Firearms Atty familiar with these type issues. Two names come up: Keith Langer (admitted to the MA & RI Bar) and Jesse Cohen (admitted to the MA Bar) for advice on how to answer this and put his best foot forward. It'll cost probably $1-200 for the consultation, but can avoid appealing a denial which would be more costly.

Take these words to heart. A gun lawyer will know the ins and outs of the process a lot better than most others.

Sadly, with a minor drug posession charge, I do not forsee a favorable outcome in Massachusetts.

Depends on the town.

I wonder though.... when I went for my LTC me and the Lt. were talking during the process. I had a stupid mis-hap with Progressive Insurance they never notified the DOT that I had insurance.... no notice from the DOT either... driving home from work a Stoneham PD cruiser riding behind me runs my plate and it comes up UN-Registered... So I went to court for it I didnt get a ticket I got a summons to court and a tow of my vehicle... So I was asking the cop if I should put that down he said NO its a "criminal" offense LIKE IT DID SAY on the summons, but it was traffic related and it got appealed and I suffered no ramifications for it... and they considered that nothing anyway

The application specifically says non-criminal traffic offenses, and operating un-insured is criminal in Mass.

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Chapter90/Section34j

Section 34J. Whoever operates or permits to be operated or permits to remain on a public or private way a motor vehicle which is subject to the provisions of section one A during such time as the motor vehicle liability policy or bond or deposit required by the provisions of this chapter has not been provided and maintained in accordance therewith shall be punished by a fine of not less than five hundred nor more than five thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year in a house of correction, or both such fine and imprisonment; provided, however, that any municipality that enforces the provisions of this section shall retain such fine. This section shall not apply to a person who operates a motor vehicle leased under any system referred to in section thirty-two C without knowledge that the lessor thereof has not complied with the provisions of section thirty-two E relative to providing indemnity, protection or security for property damage.

In other words, it should have gone on your application, and you could be charged for submitting an LTC app with false/missing info. This is why I always tell people to talk to a lawyer before applying if you have any kind of criminal record, or if you think you might be DQ'ed for other reasons.

He told me a story about when he first took over doing the interview process and licensing, there was a license issued to a individual who had a arrest when he was younger in another state for marijuana he failed to list that on his application amd he also had his last name mis-spelled (i.e. smith, smyth) on the app. HE GOT HIS LTC A. Since the arrest happened in another state under a different name it never came up. Then when going to purchase a firearm from a dealer they call the Fed and they tell him he is Fed Prohibited due to prior drug charge. Then the feds called issuing PD and wanted to know how he got the LTC. They reviewed the app and found he with held the arrest OUT OF STATE info. And the Mis-spelled name. His LTC was revoked obviously...

A prior drug charge does not make one federally prohibited, unless it's a felony or a misdemeanor with a max sentence of greater than 2 years in jail. If convicted for lying on an LTC app though you'll be statutorily DQ'ed from getting a Mass. LTC for life.
 
Right I get what your saying and thats why I straight out asked him this is a green town though.... and I have my LTC no res
 
Once again, my mantra is for him to GO to the court he was arraigned in and get a copy of his Docket Sheet and the case. Then he should consult a Firearms Atty familiar with these type issues. Two names come up: Keith Langer (admitted to the MA & RI Bar) and Jesse Cohen (admitted to the MA Bar) for advice on how to answer this and put his best foot forward. It'll cost probably $1-200 for the consultation, but can avoid appealing a denial which would be more costly.

I also doubt that it was expunged. Most likely it was "sealed", so it won't be visible to the average query, BUT LE queries turn up EVERYTHING, no matter what he was told. He must be honest or he'll DQ himself for lying on the application.

Len,

I understand what you're saying regarding a situation in which the record wasn't really expunged, but it IS possible.

Since it is, doesn't the individual have a right to enjoy the effect of that? Why should they voluntarily bring an issue back onto the record that truly has been expunged? (I'm assuiming, of course, that they've lawyered up and verified that the record really was expunged)
 
Nothing ever disappears, depending on who is looking. As anyone who had to fill out an SF-86.

I did but MEPS Dq'd me.

Honesty is the best policy!
 
It's really not about honesty. It's about interpretation.

Again, if someone has evidence that they've succeeded in getting a record expunged (legally), then why would they intentionally bring it back onto the record?
 
The application specifically says non-criminal traffic offenses, and operating un-insured is criminal in Mass.

It is, but if the Magistrate dismisses the criminal complaint, are you still legally considered a "defendant" or whatever it is depicted as on the LTC app, despite the fact that you probably never made it into the courtroom as such?

-Mike
 
It's really not about honesty. It's about interpretation.

Again, if someone has evidence that they've succeeded in getting a record expunged (legally), then why would they intentionally bring it back onto the record?

You bring up a really good point here. There's some caselaw that touches on this issue.

http://masscases.com/cases/app/16/16massappct543.html

The decision entered following the hearing in the District Court decided only that since the record of the defendant's conviction had been sealed, it could not be the basis for denying the defendant's application. The decision concluded with the following order: "On the basis of the statute and the facts in this case, the Petition for Review, I find that the petitioner is not disqualified by reason of law and the licensing authority is ordered to issue a license to carry a firearm to the petitioner."

General Laws c. 94C, Section 34, second par., provides for the dismissal of proceedings and the sealing of the record of a person convicted of possession of certain controlled substances. The defendant appears to have qualified in all respects for dismissal of the charge for possession of marijuana and sealing of official records pertaining to the proceedings. That paragraph further provides: "Any conviction, the record of which has been sealed under this section, shall not be deemed a conviction for purposes of disqualification or for any other purpose." General Laws c. 140, Section 131, disqualifies a person who has been convicted of the possession of a narcotic drug from the class of persons to whom a chief of police may issue a license to carry a firearm. The chief of police does not question the correctness of the judge's ruling that the provisions of G. L. c. 94C, Section 34, second par., removed the defendant's conviction as a disqualification to receive the license applied for.

In this case the court is winking at part of the issue we're discussing, do sealed records apply to LTC's? The next case is where it gets really interesting IMO.

http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/374/374mass475.html

The plaintiff contends that because the sealed records statute, G. L. c. 276, Section 100A, is rehabilitative in nature, it should be read to prohibit the use of sealed criminal offender information for any purposes other than those specifically enumerated in the statute. The plaintiff argues that, since G. L. c. 276, Section 100A, does not specifically allow gun licensing authorities access to sealed criminal records, the use of this information by the chief of police in revoking the plaintiff's gun licenses was impermissible.

We agree with the plaintiff that the sealed records statute serves a useful rehabilitative purpose in providing a mechanism whereby the fact of a prior conviction is, in most instances, shielded from public view. [Note 2] On the basis of the statutory language and the legislative history of G. L. c. 276,

Page 480

Section 100A, however, we are unable to agree that the sealed records statute must operate to preclude the use of criminal offender information by gun licensing authorities.

General Laws c. 276, Section 100A, provides that the Commissioner of Probation, "in response to inquiries by authorized persons other than any law enforcement agency, any court, or any appointing authority, shall in the case of a sealed record . . . report that no record exists." [Note 3] This provision must be read to imply that law enforcement agencies, courts, and appointing authorities do have access to criminal records which have been sealed.

Such a reading is consistent with legislative history, which reveals that even the broadest versions of the proposed sealed records statute did not, as the plaintiff suggests, purport completely to erase the fact of a prior criminal conviction; rather, each version contained provisions requiring the Commissioner to report the fact of a sealed felony conviction to any inquiring police or court agency. See 1971 House Doc. No. 588; 1917 House Doc. No. 5362. See also 1971 House Doc. No. 5719; 1971 House Journal 2227-2228. Thus, the legislative history of Section 100A supports our conclusion that under the statute the defendant is clearly allowed access to and, by implication, use of information regarding a sealed criminal record.

Although the plaintiff urges us to hold otherwise, we further conclude that our reading of the sealed records statute is consistent with G. L. c. 6, Sections 167-178, the statutory scheme regulating the maintenance and dissemination of criminal offender information. General Laws c. 6, Section 172, inserted by St. 1972, c. 805, Section 1, provided [Note 4] that "[c]riminal

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offender record information shall be disseminated . . . only to (a) criminal justice agencies and (b) such other individuals and agencies as are authorized access to such records by statute."

The defendant falls into both of these categories. First, the defendant is part of a "criminal justice agency" as defined in the statute. G. L. c. 6, Section 167. Second, as was shown above, the defendant chief of police, as a member of a law enforcement agency, is "authorized access to such records by" G. L. c. 276, Section 100A. [Note 5] The Criminal History Systems Board itself recognized this authority when it advised in its January, 1975, memorandum that "the criminal justice agency would be entitled to the information in [a] sealed record pursuant to . . . an application [for a gun license]." Thus, we conclude that, even under the broad regulatory provisions of the Criminal Offender Record Information System, the defendant would have been able to receive information regarding the plaintiff's prior criminal record and to use this information in determining the plaintiff's eligibility for a gun license. [Note 6]

Page 482

2. In characterizing as slanderous the defendant's publication of the fact of the prior felony convictions, the plaintiff concedes that truth is an absolute defense. Bander v. Metropolitan Life Ins. Co., 313 Mass. 337 , 342 (1943). Comerford v. Meier, 302 Mass. 398 , 402 (1939). Foss v. Hildreth, 10 Allen 76 , 79 (1865). He argues, however, that where the record of a conviction has been sealed under G. L. c. 276, Section 100A, the fact of the conviction essentially is erased, so that the conviction is no longer a fact for any purposes other than those enumerated in the statute. Additionally, the plaintiff argues that, even if the statements were true, the defendant could not prove truth as an affirmative defense, because G. L. c. 276, Section 100A, provides: "[N]or shall such sealed records be admissible in evidence or used in any way in any court proceedings . . . except in imposing sentence . . . ."

We do not agree with the plaintiff's reasoning. First, the sealed records statute does not operate to erase the fact of a prior conviction (compare G. L. c. 6, Sections 167, 171, providing for the "purging" or expungement of criminal offender information so that "there is no trace of information removed and no indication that said information was removed." G. L. c. 6, Section 167); it seeks simply to ensure confidentiality. The information is in fact maintained (see G. L. c. 6, Sections 167-178) and is accessible to law enforcement agencies, courts, and appointing authorities under G. L. c. 276, Section 100A. There is nothing in the statute or the legislative history to suggest that, once the fact of a conviction is sealed, it becomes nonexistent, and hence untrue for the purposes of the common law of defamation.

Second, the plaintiff himself stipulated to the fact of his two prior felony convictions in a statement of agreed facts which was filed with the trial court on January 21, 1977. He confirmed his agreement to these facts during the trial. Therefore, we do not reach the question whether the above quoted passage from G. L. c. 276, Section 100A, applies to exclude evidence of sealed convictions, nor do we address any constitutional problems inherent in a claim that the sealed

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records statute purports to deprive an individual of an otherwise valid defense to a charge of defamation. The plaintiff waived any objections to admitting evidence of prior convictions by agreeing to those facts. Cf. Wheelock v. Henshaw, 19 Pick. 341 (1837).

This case deals with the Mass. statute on expunged records and gun licenses, and it only deals with actual convictions, so it's not a perfect match to this issue but it definitely gives us some food for thought. In short, the courts said that LE can have access to sealed records, and since he admitted to it in court it's not really sealed anymore. The courts haven't ruled decisively on whether or not a sealed record that isn't a DQing conviction can be accessed by LE. They have ruled that convictions from out of state can be used against you if you don't tell them on an LTC app, but in the OP's friend's case, there's no conviction here, just the appearance.

If I had to guess I'd say that the courts would rule that it had to be disclosed, but it opens up some interesting new avenues if you do admit to it anywhere in the legal realm, such as an LTC application.

It is, but if the Magistrate dismisses the criminal complaint, are you still legally considered a "defendant" or whatever it is depicted as on the LTC app, despite the fact that you probably never made it into the courtroom as such?

-Mike

Yes. The question asks if you've ever appeared in court for criminal charges, and it's worded broadly enough to include any kind of appearance, even if the charges were thrown out and the cops were scolded for trumping up charges.
 
GSG, I guess it would all depend on the licensing authority in your respective town... as all the towns separately have different regulations for application. Some require written out references, recent safety course cert. It all varies. I told him (licensing officer) about the no-insurance issue and how I appealed to the magistrate and he said that isn't what there talking about there in that question, esp since there where no fines charges and never saw a actual judge... either way I have it
 
GSG, I guess it would all depend on the licensing authority in your respective town... as all the towns separately have different regulations for application.

While that's true for "suitability" issues, but what we're talking about here is a little different. Sealed records for legal problems in Mass. are available to LE and have to be listed on the LTC application, but the law and caselaw isn't clear on sealed records from out of state, and pardons for that matter.

The issue here is a legal catch-22 because of the court's silence on this matter. If you have a sealed record and don't list it, you can be charged criminally (keep in mind that a conviction for that will DQ you from getting a Mass. LTC for life). If you have a sealed record and do list it, the Mass. courts feel that you're un-sealing it, which may result in being DQ'ed from the LTC, and could have other legal repercussions later on down the road.

This is a situation where you definitely need a lawyer. The odds are too high to take a blind leap here IMO.
 
I had a friend with a similar issue in RI, case "expunged". 6 years later applied for MA LTC, put offense on app and it was never even brought up. Obviously ymmv.
Edit : I would like to add the friend was not convicted and did not pay any fines or have probation. Lawyer at the time said not paying a fine was important, otherwise the offense will never"go away."
 
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Lots of people with a smudge or two on their records get LTC's, but I can think of circumstances where this could become a real issue. If you have someone who had charges expunged after it was discovered that they were railroaded by dirty/lazy cops or prosecutors and brought up on ugly charges, like rape or something offensive, even if they didn't do anything wrong, having those charges made public again somehow could make things very ugly. Look at the Duke "rape" case with Nifong, those kids would be a great example of someone who'd want the fact that charges were pursued sealed forever, even though they didn't do anything wrong. Mass. may or may not allow that, the law isn't clear, unfortunately.
 
Lots of people with a smudge or two on their records get LTC's, but I can think of circumstances where this could become a real issue. If you have someone who had charges expunged after it was discovered that they were railroaded by dirty/lazy cops or prosecutors and brought up on ugly charges, like rape or something offensive, even if they didn't do anything wrong, having those charges made public again somehow could make things very ugly. Look at the Duke "rape" case with Nifong, those kids would be a great example of someone who'd want the fact that charges were pursued sealed forever, even though they didn't do anything wrong. Mass. may or may not allow that, the law isn't clear, unfortunately.

I agree, but if you do not disclose and it comes up during the check I would expect to get denied. When you say public...you don't mean the general public right?
 
I agree, but if you do not disclose and it comes up during the check I would expect to get denied.

That's what makes it a catch-22, and is one of the reasons why I think anyone in this situation should get help from a lawyer.

When you say public...you don't mean the general public right?

Kind of. Under MGL 66-10 gun owner info isn't publicly available for record requests and such. But there's case law where the courts include info from the application if it comes up for whatever reason, and at that point, it's public info. There's also a handful of news stories here on NES where someone goes to court to fight for their LTC and all of that stuff is printed in the paper since it's being disputed in court.

Also anything you put on an LTC application never goes away. So even if John Smith had things sealed in California (random example), if he lists it on the LTC application one time, even if he was legally allowed to keep quiet about it, the police won't un-learn what he told them, and he can't have that application sealed from further police access or anything.
 
Nothing in MA goes away. I have a BS traffic charge from 2000 still haunting me (uninsured MV) even though it was dismissed because I was able to prove that the vehicle was in fact insured. Imagine a rape or other sex crime haunting you after it was dismissed? This state sucks.
 
Found some interesting case law from SCOTUS.

Dickerson v. New Banner Institute, Inc., 460 U.S. 103 (1983)

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=460&invol=103

(b) Iowa's expunction provisions, as carried out in Kennison's case prior to respondent's license applications, did not nullify his conviction for purposes of the federal statute. Expunction under state law does not alter the legality of the previous conviction, does not open the way to a license despite the conviction, and does not signify that the defendant was innocent of the crime to which he pleaded guilty. Expunction in Iowa means no more than that the State has provided a means for the trial court not to accord a conviction certain continuing effects under state law. Pp. 114-115.

It brings up some interesting points about expunged DQ-ing records.
 
The simple fact people are "OK" with asking/begging corrupt politicians for their God-given right quite is appalling ~SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED~
 
Real life example. A buddy got arrested in NJ and the fine was $275 or 6 months in county which DQ'd him in MA. He applied and was denied. He then hired an attorney in NJ to get his record expunged. 6 months later he reapplied in the same town that denied him and with minimal explanation was granted his LTC-A No Restrictions. NJ recognizes legal fiction and if the judge approves your expungement it does go away. When he reapplied his record showed nothing, the LO looked up his previous application and asked what he did to remove the record, he explained and was granted his ltc. granted it was in a green town and he's renewed at least once at this point with no further questions.
 
Getting something expunged is next to impossible. With a CWOF the disposition was probably dismissed but not expunged. I woud definately mention it as CWOF's are still a court appearence. The good news is that a CWOF is not a conviction (as long as he lived up to his terms of probation). There are plenty of people who get their licesne with this type of record. Of course the caveat is the whole suitability issue
Did you read the "This occurred in Rhode Island" in the original post?
A buddy got arrested in NJ and the fine was $275 or 6 months in county which DQ'd him in MA.
None of what you listed makes on a MA D unless there are other issues (crime is drug related and not MJ under 1oz with no intent to sell; gun/ammo crime with prison/jail possible; or domestic violence).
 
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