Looking to start reloading for an AR15 platform need advice

MAshooter1 said:
Not really. Most dies can do either a roll or taper crimp. By example, the RCBS die set I bought for .223 Rem (5.56) can do either crimp. I would buy a 2-die set when you're just getting started and then depending on where you want to take your adventures, buy a micrometer seating die from Redding (which is what I did). The 2-die set does a good job of educating you on how to set the press up and get making ammo; save the micrometer die for later when you get comfortable.
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Ahh to crimp or not to crimp? Here is a decent article. See guys we are fortunate enough to have so much of the mystery of reloading for a AR worked out 30 years ago. I'm sure there has been some omprovment on bullet quality and powders but not much.... www.loaddata.com/articles/PDF/Reloading Semiauto Rifles.pdf
 
mac1911 said:
Ahh to crimp or not to crimp? Here is a decent article. See guys we are fortunate enough to have so much of the mystery of reloading for a AR worked out 30 years ago. I'm sure there has been some omprovment on bullet quality and powders but not much.... www.loaddata.com/articles/PDF/Reloading Semiauto Rifles.pdf
Click to expand...

Fair enough- my rationale (I prefer taper over roll) is that it fatigues the case neck excessively and could lead to premature splitting. Think about what you are doing to the mouth by roll crimping over and over again...
 
mac1911 said:
Ahh to crimp or not to crimp? Here is a decent article. See guys we are fortunate enough to have so much of the mystery of reloading for a AR worked out 30 years ago. I'm sure there has been some omprovment on bullet quality and powders but not much.... www.loaddata.com/articles/PDF/Reloading%20Semiauto%20Rifles.pdf
Click to expand...

Interesting and some good info I thought one being that semi auto rifles should use a cannelured bullet and some type of a crimp. Did I miss something here or am I on the right track?
 
Keven said:
Interesting and some good info I thought one being that semi auto rifles should use a cannelured bullet and some type of a crimp. Did I miss something here or am I on the right track?
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...Yes, if you go by the book (cannelured projectile with roll crimp). Cannelures help to prevent "pushback" when a new round is being chambered by the bolt in a semi-auto. However I would counterargue that a taper crimp done correctly achieves enough neck tension to prevent pushback from happening.

Speaking of which- have you picked up a reloading manual or two yet?
 
Keven said:
Interesting and some good info I thought one being that semi auto rifles should use a cannelured bullet and some type of a crimp. Did I miss something here or am I on the right track?
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Not necessarily. Match bullets typically don't have a cannelure and are usually not crimped. (I sometimes use a very light crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp die if it's old brass, but that's more to keep neck tension consistent.)
 
jasons said:
Not necessarily. Match bullets typically don't have a cannelure and are usually not crimped. (I sometimes use a very light crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp die if it's old brass, but that's more to keep neck tension consistent.)
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Interesting, I wonder if most AR match shooter do not crimp or use Cannelure type bullets? I have seen one of my factory round's bullet get pushed back halfway into its case though granted not too often.
 
Keven said:
Interesting, I wonder if most AR match shooter do not crimp or use Cannelure type bullets? I have seen one of my factory round's bullet get pushed back halfway into its case though granted not too often.
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I'm unaware of any match grade bullets in general use that have a cannelure. The only exception that I can think of is the cannelured version of the Sierra 77 grain SMK that the .mil uses for the mk262 round, but that's not really used as a match bullet.
 
For reloading the AR or Garand crimping is not needed if your dies are sizing correctly.
There are always exceptions: 1. personally I found no measurable difference in accuracy between my 55gn hornady with cannalure crimped vs not......2. I taper crimp one particular load because I need to flare the case mouth for use with some flat base bullets I use for plinking 3. As mentioned I too will use the lee factory crimp die to just kiss a little squeeze om my older brass........you need to decide what is good for your needs.....
You asked what is wrong with lee.....nothing it does everything lee claims it will do for the price you pay. Lee has no equal at their price point. Mr lee was like henery ford. Created a mass market with cost saving manufacturing and making parts as cheap as possible.....doesn't mean bad parts. My advice is if your going to by a lee single stage nothing less than the classic cast....hunt for one used 1st
 
Keven said:
I thrive on details .........so you got me wondering what was wrong with the Lee??
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If you saw the cheap Lee and the Rockchucker side-by-side, you'd laugh.

Here are a few things off the top of my head:

  • The Rockchucker has a larger diameter ram
  • The Rockchucker's ram is dead-center with respect to the die hole (my Lee wasn't)
  • The Rockchucker's ram has zero side play (you could wiggle the Lee's ram)
  • The Rockchucker frame is thick cast iron. I won't deflect under load
  • It will be several lifetimes before the cast iron frame of the Rockchucker wears enough to cause side play in the ram. The ram on Lee press had a noticeable increase in side play after only a few thousand rounds
  • The Rockchucker's base allows you to mount it with 3/8" diameter bolts and it has a wide footprint that spreads the load out on your bench during heavy sizing operations. The Lee's footprint is tiny, and you attach it to the bench with 1/4" bolts. I literally broke it off my workbench while forming cases.
  • The linkages on the RCBS are heavy cast iron. Lee uses sheetmetal.
  • The stop (in other words, the part of the machine that determines when the ram is all the way up) on the RCBS is a pair of large surface area lugs (one on each side of the press) that stop against the thick cast iron linkages. Top is top - you can jump up and down on the handle and the ram won't go up any higher. The cheap Lee has a small cast aluminum button that hits the sheetmetal linkage. If you push a little harder, the ram goes up higher. This will cause you to set back the shoulders on your cases by varying amounts. If you push too hard, you'll break the button right off.
  • The Lee will send spent primers all over your shop.

The reason why people buy the Rockchucker at 4 times the price is that it's about 100 times better.

Just buy a good press. When you think about it, the cost of the press is not that much when you consider all of the other equipment you need to get. Why skimp on the piece of equipment that is used more than any other, and that will be a major contributing factor in the quality of your ammo?

Also, the only rifle rounds I crimp are ones that will be used in a rifle with a tube magazine, or very heavy recoiling rounds that will be fired in a repeater.

I don't crimp any of my .223 (cannelure or not) - even the stuff that I fire in my machine gun.
 
I bought the Lee Lock and Load classic on Ebay for short money. It comes with alot, including the reloading manual which is absolutely necessary.
It has a scale, 50rd shell tray, primer attachement ect.
I bought a case trimmer after I found that my .308 cases had flowed out of spec after multiple reloads, and digital calipers from Harbor Freight for $10 or so.
I load my .308, 45acp,.223 and 300 win mag on it. I found after researching that alot of guys buy a progressive and then want to get rid of it.
Alot is going on at each station, and I like to do them one at a time to make sure.
Oh, one more thing. Youtube has GREAT videos on virtually every caliber and every reloader you are going to use.
It is where I got started.
Whatever equipment you get, reloading is a great idea!
 
If I knew i was only going to load 223 @ 1200 rnd per year I would buy.
1. Any of the single stage kits besides lee with quick die change(or buy the adapters)
2. Case gauge
3. Trimmer
4. small tumbler, Im actually buying a smaller tumbler as my lyman 2500 needs far to many cases to work well.
5. Caliper
Looking around I have noticed the hornady clasic kit has not gone up much in price. 259$ ish with free shipping....I bought mine ib 2008 paid 175$ shipped just before xmas and just prior to that it was listed for 229.00

Im not sure if this kit is still out there but if you just want open the box and go(minus a case guage,trimmer and tumbler) this seems ok? hornady 085010 press deluxe kit http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/6-0819484
I was looking around over the summer and found a few for 400.00 with free shipping
 
EddieCoyle said:
If you saw the cheap Lee and the Rockchucker side-by-side, you'd laugh.

Here are a few things off the top of my head:

  • The Rockchucker has a larger diameter ram
  • The Rockchucker's ram is dead-center with respect to the die hole (my Lee wasn't)
  • The Rockchucker's ram has zero side play (you could wiggle the Lee's ram)
  • The Rockchucker frame is thick cast iron. I won't deflect under load
  • It will be several lifetimes before the cast iron frame of the Rockchucker wears enough to cause side play in the ram. The ram on Lee press had a noticeable increase in side play after only a few thousand rounds
  • The Rockchucker's base allows you to mount it with 3/8" diameter bolts and it has a wide footprint that spreads the load out on your bench during heavy sizing operations. The Lee's footprint is tiny, and you attach it to the bench with 1/4" bolts. I literally broke it off my workbench while forming cases.
  • The linkages on the RCBS are heavy cast iron. Lee uses sheetmetal.
  • The stop (in other words, the part of the machine that determines when the ram is all the way up) on the RCBS is a pair of large surface area lugs (one on each side of the press) that stop against the thick cast iron linkages. Top is top - you can jump up and down on the handle and the ram won't go up any higher. The cheap Lee has a small cast aluminum button that hits the sheetmetal linkage. If you push a little harder, the ram goes up higher. This will cause you to set back the shoulders on your cases by varying amounts. If you push too hard, you'll break the button right off.
  • The Lee will send spent primers all over your shop.

The reason why people buy the Rockchucker at 4 times the price is that it's about 100 times better.

Just buy a good press. When you think about it, the cost of the press is not that much when you consider all of the other equipment you need to get. Why skimp on the piece of equipment that is used more than any other, and that will be a major contributing factor in the quality of your ammo?

Also, the only rifle rounds I crimp are ones that will be used in a rifle with a tube magazine, or very heavy recoiling rounds that will be fired in a repeater.

I don't crimp any of my .223 (cannelure or not) - even the stuff that I fire in my machine gun.
Click to expand...

I see, I guess its is true when they say more decimal places used in manufacturing drives up the cost.

Thanks for the data!!
 
Keven said:
OK Breaking news:

I ordered my own little starter KIT please note that this was done just so I can test the waters first.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/807734/lee-reloader-single-stage-press

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/434975/lee-pacesetter-3-die-set-223-remington

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/728999/lee-ram-prime-priming-unit-for-single-stage-press
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What did you get for a case trimmer, manual, tumbler? Case prep tools? Scale?
If you where going to buy lee for not much more you could get a lee challenger kit for 120$ shipped. Comes with almost everything?
 
Well I calculated it all out and just decided that some items in the kits I just don't like. Now granted I never did and reloading aside from shot gun, but I just felt that I rather spend a little more on the individual items I really want. My buddy is going to let be borrow his trimmer and gauges for my first batch. I will then make another purchase based on some actual experience.

Oh and for case prep I am soaking my brass as I write this in water, vinegar, salt, and soap.
 
Keven said:
Well I calculated it all out and just decided that some items in the kits I just don't like. Now granted I never did and reloading aside from shot gun, but I just felt that I rather spend a little more on the individual items I really want. My buddy is going to let be borrow his trimmer and gauges for my first batch. I will then make another purchase based on some actual experience.

Oh and for case prep I am soaking my brass as I write this in water, vinegar, salt, and soap.
Click to expand...
I agree there with the kits not having the best or "wants" with them....I don't really like the digit scale from my hornady kit. Its a blue back lit screen and hard to read for me. Lees powder scale although hasxbeen proven to be accurate is not the easiest to adjust. I'm not a fan of lee shell holders and have replaced them in my lee die sets with rcbs.
I hope lee works for you and you. I have come close to buying the turret press a few times for my low volume 9mm loads. But I'm at the point if I think about spending more money it goes to powder/primers/ bullets! That said

What are you going to load for bullets and powder?
 
Planing a little hunting? As far as cold weather powder goes? I don't know much about magnum primers other than useing them when data calls for it.
Varget has done me well out of my AR. Groups are consistant both summer and winter.
 
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mac1911 said:
Planing a little hunting? As far as cold weather powder goes? I don't know much about magnum primers other than useing them when data calls for it.
Varget has done me well out of my AR. Groups are consistant both summer and winter.
Click to expand...

What primers and dies do you use for the AR?

I am really just a target shooter not a hunter by any means.
 
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I use wolf standard small rifle primers at the moment because they where the least expensive. I also use cci 41 primers.
I did not see a large difference in results over the crony between the two. Also yet to have a primer issue with wolf in 3k+ rounds. I use a simular bullet for me plinking needs but paid much less...also these are the flat base bullets I needed to flare the case mouth a little to have them start in nice into the case neck.
I have dies from many manufactures. I like my hornady new demension die set for my AR best compared to my lee.
I like varget powder. To date its the most accurate powder I have used in my AR of the rest.
 
EddieCoyle said:
Good luck. If your ammo sucks, don't give up on reloading.
Click to expand...

LOL OK.......heck my buddy's rounds jam in his AR so I kinda know I have to set the dies carefully and that perhaps I may need Small Base dies BUT hey here goes nothing!
 
Keven said:
Well I calculated it all out and just decided that some items in the kits I just don't like. Now granted I never did and reloading aside from shot gun, but I just felt that I rather spend a little more on the individual items I really want. My buddy is going to let be borrow his trimmer and gauges for my first batch. I will then make another purchase based on some actual experience.

Oh and for case prep I am soaking my brass as I write this in water, vinegar, salt, and soap.
Click to expand...

Keven said:
Well I been reading up on that and I want a powder for COLD weather use so perhaps that Hodgdon extreme powder not too sure about the best cold weather powder also thinking magnum primers, and these bullets:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/11...-diameter-55-grain-spire-point-with-cannelure
Click to expand...

Keven said:
What primers and dies do you use for the AR?

I am really just a target shooter not a hunter by any means.
Click to expand...

Just use whatever you can find. At this point it's not really going to matter.
 
mac1911 said:
I use wolf standard small rifle primers at the moment because they where the least expensive. I also use cci 41 primers.
I did not see a large difference in results over the crony between the two. Also yet to have a primer issue with wolf in 3k+ rounds. I use a simular bullet for me plinking needs but paid much less...also these are the flat base bullets I needed to flare the case mouth a little to have them start in nice into the case neck.
I have dies from many manufactures. I like my hornady new demension die set for my AR best compared to my lee.
I like varget powder. To date its the most accurate powder I have used in my AR of the rest.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info.....I will consider those dies if my Lee ones fail me!
 
Ger the Frankfort Arsenal tumbler kit. Great starter setup.

-Proud to be dad every day, a licensed plumber most days, and wish I was a shoemaker on others.
 

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