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Looking for data: maximum shots fired in self-defense

kalash

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Very simple request for information: what are some of the highest figures for rounds fired in a civilian self-defense situation?


We've all seen all sorts of statistics and arguments about round counts. However, I've been trying to remember what the highest shot count is that I've seen in news stories. I've seen some relatively high numbers for law enforcement and of course for mass shootings but I'm curious what the high-end outliers are for civilian self-defense (including misses). This is just simple curiously, I am NOT trying to start yet another capacity debate.
 
One case happened in Washington state back in the 1980s. An army reservist and his young wife purchased a fixer-upper home near a high crime area. He and his friends almost immediately ran into problems with a local gang. After the house was completed, the couple hosted a cookout for friends to celebrate. Gang members arrived and started shooting. The reservist and his off-duty army buddies returned fire. Dozens of rounds. The gang members, clearly outgunned, fled the scene. Several homes and cars were hit but no one was hurt.
 
Think I found the article:

About the Archive
This is a digitized version of an article from The Times’s print archive, before the start of online publication in 1996. To preserve these articles as they originally appeared, The Times does not alter, edit or update them.
Occasionally the digitization process introduces transcription errors or other problems; we are continuing to work to improve these archived versions.
A dozen off-duty soldiers from Fort Lewis engaged in a 30-minute gun battle last weekend against a group of alleged drug dealers.

Hundreds of rounds from handguns, shotguns and semiautomatic weapons were fired, witnesses said, but no one was hurt. When the police arrived in the drug-ridden neighborhood, they arrested two young men suspected of being crack dealers and took the soldiers' weapons, which were privately owned.

The gunfight involved members of the Army Rangers, an elite force of light infantry, and it happened Saturday night outside the home of one of them, Sgt. Bill Foulk. The next day, scuffles broke out among several Ranger supporters and opponents, who said they were being falsely accused of selling drugs. Again no serious injuries were reported. Filming Leads to Threats

Aligned against the Rangers in the shooting were 15 to 20 people described by the police as members of a gang, the Hilltop Crips, which has been implicated in drug dealing.

Continue reading the main story
Sergeant Foulk, 32 years old, said the gang members had become upset earlier Saturday that he was filming, from his second-floor window, the comings and goings at a yellow bungalow that has a reputation of being a crack house. He said they had threatened him and he had called fellow Rangers for help. The shooting began soon after the soldiers arrived.

Police Chief Ray Fjetland said the incident could have been avoided if residents had called the police. But Sergeant Foulk said the police were routinely too slow to react.

Army officials said they would wait for completion of the investigation by the police before deciding if disciplinary action was warranted.

But Maj. Clyde Newman, second-in-command of the soldiers' unit, the Second Ranger Battalion, said: ''From everything I am told by the city police, the Rangers were right. They were having a party, and they were attacked.''

Continue reading the main story
Residents of the bungalow said they had not fired any shots at the sergeant's house. They also denied participating in drug deals, although they said drug activity often occurred in front of the house.

Sergeant Foulk said he and his neighbors saw drug deals at the house day and night. ''I bought this place two years ago for $10,000 after it was abandoned,'' he said. ''We're fixing it up, and as far as I'm concerned, the neighborhood is going to be restored to a decent place to live.''

The police identified the two men arrested after the shooting as Frankie Lee Strickland, 20, held for investigation of assault, and Daniel Lynn Vaughn, 21, held for investigation of unlawful use of a weapon. The police also said they had confiscated from the Rangers two semiautomatic rifles, one 12-gauge shotgun, eight semiautomatic handguns and one revolver.
 
I've read a couple accounts of 10+, seem to remember a woman defending herself and her kid vs a home invasion. If I remember right that one was 5+. Maybe the googlefu black belts can find it. I just remember people saying if she was limited to 'x' rounds, she'd be dead.

There should be news stories, shooting more than 3 or 4 rounds is outside the statistical norm. Took me longer than I care to admit to get that word right. Autocorrect kept going to versions of satire.
 
I've read a couple accounts of 10+, seem to remember a woman defending herself and her kid vs a home invasion. If I remember right that one was 5+. Maybe the googlefu black belts can find it. I just remember people saying if she was limited to 'x' rounds, she'd be dead.
It's gotta be this:


There should be news stories, shooting more than 3 or 4 rounds is outside the statistical norm. Took me longer than I care to admit to get that word right. Autocorrect kept going to versions of satire.
That's just your computer being mean.
They're frequently like that.
Hence the term "sadistical mean".
 
It's gotta be this:



That's just your computer being mean.
They're frequently like that.
Hence the term "sadistical mean".
Probably it.
Yes, computers hate me, I don't even know that one trick :(

Here's a video out of Brazil, it's a cop, but it's an armed robbery:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMADRu9CE9w


Mas Ayoob interview with a jewlery store operator who was involved in a robbery that got loud:
I didn't listen to it, but it's in a discussion similar to this one on another forum.
edit: I'd link the thread, but it rapidly dissolved into a 'I don't care about numbers, I carry 5 reloads anyway' discussion.
 
Found one where 105 rounds were fired. The shooter was defending his gun shop and fired with an AR at a vehicle that was trying to run him over, and then with a licensed machine gun at the second vehicle in order to disable it.

 
Very simple request for information: what are some of the highest figures for rounds fired in a civilian self-defense situation?


We've all seen all sorts of statistics and arguments about round counts. However, I've been trying to remember what the highest shot count is that I've seen in news stories. I've seen some relatively high numbers for law enforcement and of course for mass shootings but I'm curious what the high-end outliers are for civilian self-defense (including misses). This is just simple curiously, I am NOT trying to start yet another capacity debate.
I remember a police officer that got into a running gun fight with a guy, who had to shoot a man over 20 times with a 40.... that's the first one I can think of off the top of my head.. those are hits too by the way not counting the misses! Somewhere the article is posted on NES ..... I'll have to try digging it up.
 
Found one where 105 rounds were fired. The shooter was defending his gun shop and fired with an AR at a vehicle that was trying to run him over, and then with a licensed machine gun at the second vehicle in order to disable it.

Surviving perps should have been charged under the felony murder rule.
 
I have not seen this particular statistic reported anywhere before. I imagine the number is quite high, and probably of little value in any meaningful analysis. Last year, a gangbanger parked at the end of my street and fired 40+ rounds straight down the road into the air and pavement. There are likely numerous firearm discharges like that in any given year, especially between groups in the form of drive by shootings, etc.
 
I have not seen this particular statistic reported anywhere before. I imagine the number is quite high, and probably of little value in any meaningful analysis. Last year, a gangbanger parked at the end of my street and fired 40+ rounds straight down the road into the air and pavement. There are likely numerous firearm discharges like that in any given year, especially between groups in the form of drive by shootings, etc.
That's not a defensive shooting though. Gang warfare can hardly be considered self-defense in the traditional sense either.
 
That's not a defensive shooting though. Gang warfare can hardly be considered self-defense in the traditional sense either.
Returning fire from a drive by shooting could easily be considered as “defensive” shooting, depending on how you choose to define it. That was kind of my point, that you’re unlikely to find a breakdown like this that differentiates the types of exchanges since this seems to be a very subjective measure. You may find total round counts, but it’s going to include situations like what occurred near me, and it may be difficult to filter through that data set effectively.
 
I remember a police officer that got into a running gun fight with a guy, who had to shoot a man over 20 times with a 40.... that's the first one I can think of off the top of my head.. those are hits too by the way not counting the misses! Somewhere the article is posted on NES ..... I'll have to try digging it up.
The story: Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job
 
Returning fire from a drive by shooting could easily be considered as “defensive” shooting, depending on how you choose to define it. That was kind of my point, that you’re unlikely to find a breakdown like this that differentiates the types of exchanges since this seems to be a very subjective measure. You may find total round counts, but it’s going to include situations like what occurred near me, and it may be difficult to filter through that data set effectively.
Yeah I figured I wouldn't find any actual statistical data. Just looking for anecdotal data at least, something like "here's an article I read where X shots were fired at the burglars".
 
Then there’s the “bang", "click", “WTF". Combat reload, "bang". With a G17 that’s 35rd deployed with only 2 shots fired (17rd dropped in-between).
 
One case happened in Washington state back in the 1980s. An army reservist and his young wife purchased a fixer-upper home near a high crime area. He and his friends almost immediately ran into problems with a local gang. After the house was completed, the couple hosted a cookout for friends to celebrate. Gang members arrived and started shooting. The reservist and his off-duty army buddies returned fire. Dozens of rounds. The gang members, clearly outgunned, fled the scene. Several homes and cars were hit but no one was hurt.

This. Memo to Jose Xiden.
 
How many shootings end because one party runs out if ammo and the one with more bullets then wins?
Great question. I would guess very few but I have no data to back that up. I do remember seeing some stat that a reload is virtually never necessary, so presumably the job tends to get done in one mag or less.
 
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