loading frangible Sinterfire amm

[reloader41]

Unable to find much info out there for these frangible rounds. Working with their 100 gr 9mm bullets.

Loaded up a small lot using the following: Sinterfire 100 gr bullets, new Star-Line brass, 4.0 grains of W231, Winchester small pistol primers, OAL 1.155.

At the range using a Glock Gen 1 M17 no issues whatsoever - 2-handed, single hand, weak sided, loading from a magazine by manually cycling the slide and also by depressing the slide release for the first round.

Using the same ammo in a new Glock Gen 4 M34 - no problems at all with two-handed, but switching to single hand or weak sided, the first round chambered fine, ejected fine, but the following rounds would not seat fully into the chamber, and the slide would not go fully into battery.

Thoughts:

1. The M17 is a gun that I had had since new and have slightly over 35,000 documented rounds through it - so I think it qualities as broken in. Also, all springs are original. It has a history with me of digesting EVERYTHING that I have ever put in it.

2. The M34 is new with maybe 100 rounds through it. Maybe firing a couple of hundred rounds of factory ammo will smooth it up. Additionally, the fellow that I bought it from had upgraded the trigger assembly with lighter stings - may have to look into this. Finally, the slide has a slightly greater mass due to its length even though it has a large amount of metal removed from the top of the slide.

Sinterfire and Winchester list powder ranges as 3.9 to 4.4 max with a pressure of 31,000.

SAAMI lists max pressure of 35,000.

So, loaded up a small lot with an increase in powder to 4.3 gr. Will see what happens.

 

[dcmdon]

If a fresh round will not chamber then the case is bulged. The reason the case typically bulges is that your bullet is oversized.

If I'm making maxumum reliability ammo for my glock, I run the 9mm through a Lee Factory Crimp die. It is like a full length post sizing die. It literally swages the finished round down to size.

I don't know if it would crush the sinterfire bullet, but it might be worth a shot. The die is only about $20.

One other thing to do is purchase a chamber checker, like one of these.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...amber-tools/cartridge-checkers-prod27424.aspx

Actually, I'd buy this first. Every reloader should have one. If the rounds fit the chamber checker, and don't work in the gun, then there is a problem with the gun.

If they fail the chamber checker, then you have two choices. Use different bullets, or try the Lee Factory crimp.

Why are you reloading Sinterfires? I ask because I'm considering a class at Sig Academy and they require something like this at about $35/box. I'd prefer to reload.

Don

 

[reloader41]

Hi and thanks for the info.

I use a Dillon chamber gauge and run every round that I load through it and make sure they slip in easily and that they don't protrude front or back of the gauge and then that they drop free.

I increased the load up to 4.3 with the other specs unchanged. I also - just to be sure - chamber checked each of these rounds on the M34 barrel itself and all were fine. Right up to when I took them to the range.

Same problem this time. First round from a partially loaded mag would chamber no problem - either by hand cycling the slide or bu dropping the slide using the slide release. Fired rounds ejected smartly and consistently. But the next round just wont chamber. Each time the slide appeared to ride over the base of the round - sort of dragging it partially into the chamber until it just got wedged. The slide WAS NOT behind the round pushing it in.

As far as powder goes I am just about at the max listed. Fired cases ejected well, on the other hand the primers are beginning to look just like high pressure loads so I don't think the powder is the issue.

Interestingly, I then took my "Gen 1" slide assembly, put it on the Gen 4 frame and all the problems went away.......

To me it looks like either the mag springs are not pushing the next round up fast enough to get the round in position for the slide to pick up, or the slide is cycling to fast. Since the mags worked with the "Gen 1" slide I don't think they are the issue.

So......the recoil springs........?

I did order a set of replacement springs at 17, 15 and 13 pounds and a steel guide rod from GlockWorx to try - should be here Monday.

Any other thoughts?

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, forgot. Using the Sinterfire cause I am going out to Thunder Ranch/Clint Smith's place in Oregon for a course and they require it.

 

[lafataa]

If the reloads cycle fine in gun A with no issues but won't cycle in gun B, then you can rule out your reloads as the culprit. The springs could be the culprit since you said someone replaced them. However, the gun cycles fine when shooting two-handed.

My theory: You're limp-wristing the gun. You may not have a tight enough grip shooting one handed or off handed. Sure you can do it with your M17 because you know that gun like the back of your hand. You probably have a good, solid stance when shooting two handed with the M34, so the gun is able to fully complete the cycle. Give it a solid grip one handed and keep the frame where it should be and the recoil is directed on that slide.

When you changed the slide to the M17 on the M34 frame, your fired fine because you're used to the slide. You said someone screwed with the springs so it probably has different recoil.

Try it again one-handed and squeeze the shit out of it. Hopefully this is it and it's not an internal part of the gun.

If the gun fires every shot two-handed, there's nothig wrong with your reloads.

Let me know how it works out.

 

[dcmdon]

Will the rounds cycle if you work the slide by hand?

It doesn't sound like an ammo problem. It sounds lime a magazine problem. Tell us more about the gun and mags specifically.

There is a known issue using some pre-ban mags in Gen4 guns.

The solution for me (I use pre-ban mags in my G19 carry gun) was to use the latest (version 6) follower in the old mags along with a new enhanced power wolf mag spring.

Do you have a pic of the malfunction? With the old mags in my Gen4 gun prior to the follower preplacement, the round would "nose dive" into the ramp and just stay there.

Don

 

[reloader41]

Hey thanks for the replies. I am heading out to the range again tomorrow so will try for pics.

In the M17, the reloads work fine in old, old pre-ban mags, and in "newer" pre-ban mags and also in the brand new Gen 4 10 rounds - and this is true whether I start off with fully loaded mags or if I start with half full mags.

Also, the M17 slide assembly on the M34 frame also functions perfectly with the above combination of mags - no failures.

On the other hand, the failures occur absolutely consistently (when using reloads) using the M34 with any combination of the above mags.

The "after market" changes to the gun as I bought it are a replacement 3.5 pound trigger kit and a "Complete Spring Kit" - both by Ghost, Inc. The spring kit DOES NOT replace or modify the recoil assembly.

And again, the M34 works just fine with factory ammo - about 5 different types so far.

I am really thinking that the combination of the current factory recoil spring and my reloads is the problem. I am just concerned about increasing the powder charge - I am almost at max per Sinterfire, and the primers are beginning to look a little flat.

 

[lafataa]

Don't increase the load. How does it shoot factory loads?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dcmdon]

What generation is the G17? The G34?

If the G17 is not a gen 4 and the G34 is a Gen 4, this is all consistent with the follower issue.

To test the fix is simple and cheap. You can buy a follower on Amazon Prime.

 

[TY43215]

First chamber check the round using the barrel of the gun rather than the Dillon case gause.

For Sinterfire you should have almost no crimp which can be a problem in some chambers. I had a problem adjusting dies for these bullets in 45 and in 357SIG. I have not done a lot with 9MM but the rounds I did load had no problems in my Sig 226.

 

[jasons]

I had a hard time getting those sinter fire rounds to work reliably. I haven't messed with them in a while though, I only use them at Sig classes and I haven't taken one in a while.

 

[dcmdon]

First chamber check the round using the barrel of the gun rather than the Dillon case gause.

For Sinterfire you should have almost no crimp which can be a problem in some chambers. I had a problem adjusting dies for these bullets in 45 and in 357SIG. I have not done a lot with 9MM but the rounds I did load had no problems in my Sig 226.

Chamber gauges are cut with Clymer minimum spec finish reamers. So they should be smaller than a glock chamber.

I've had situations where a round fit in the Glock chamber, but failed in the chamber checker and also in my tightly chambered Dan Wesson Pointman 9. In fact, before I started using the Lee factory crimp, I'd run rounds that failed the chamber checker in my Glock.

With that said, I agree that the ultimate proof of the pudding is in the eating.

 

[reloader41]

Again thanks for all the ideas.

To answer some of the questioned posted:

1. The M17 is an early, early "Gen 1".
2. The M34 is a new Gen4.
3. There was a recall on early Gen 4 recoil systems, I checked with Glock and my serial number is not affected.
4. The magazine are a combination of very early hi-cap mags, several newer, but still pre-pan hi-caps, several with factory +2 extensions.
5. The Gen 4 mags are 10 rounders.
6. When I put the M17 slide assembly on the Gen 4 frame, it works perfectly - regardless of factory ammo, my reloads, pre-ban mags, pre-ban with +2 extensions, double handed, single handed, weak handed, starting the first round by dropping the slide, starting the first round by manually cycling the slide, starting with full mags and compressed springs or starting with half full mags.
7. The Gen 4 M34 works flawlessly with factory ammo - any mag, any combination, double handed, single handed etc.
8. Every reload round has been measured to an OAL of 1.155, weight of the charge was checked, each one feed into a Dillon case guage without difficulty AND EACH WAS FITTED TO THE M17 BARREL AND THE M34 BARREL.
9. By rotating mags and frame assemblies I think I have eliminated the mags, the mag springs, the followers.
10. I have ordered reduced weight recoil springs from Glockworx - a 17 pound, a 15 pound and a 13 pound - I believe the factory is an 18 pounder. They should arrive Monday, so will change noting else until then and then report back.

 

[TY43215]

Chamber gauges are cut with Clymer minimum spec finish reamers. So they should be smaller than a glock chamber.

I've had situations where a round fit in the Glock chamber, but failed in the chamber checker and also in my tightly chambered Dan Wesson Pointman 9. In fact, before I started using the Lee factory crimp, I'd run rounds that failed the chamber checker in my Glock.

With that said, I agree that the ultimate proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Totally understand the concept, BUT I have had rounds work well in my case gauge and NOT in a particular pistol. It is amazing the various problems one sees over 30yrs. Sinterfire bullets added a whole new batch when I started using them.

Good luck to the OP. It will take time but I am sure you will get it

 

[dcmdon]

Reloader and TY - what is the profile of these frangible bullets?

Are they flat point?

Reloader, 9t still stounds like a mag problem. A photo of the malfunction would be great.

Have you had any opportunity to try the gun with the trouble ammo and a standard capacity (17 round) Gen 4 mag? Maybe a trip up to NH might be useful if there are any ranges/gun shops.

If you want to cover shipping, I'll send you a version 6 follower and a Wolf spring to fty in your pre ban mags.

But seriously, get out and reproduce the problem, then take a photo of it.

I'm looking for stuff like this. These are of a problem I had with one of my 1911s. I posted these and got a fix within a day.

Don

 

[reloader41]

Well I am back!

Gave up on the G34 and Sinterfire - went to Thunder Ranch with my trusted G17 G1 and shot the crap out of everything. No failures. I really think that I could shoot a .45 ACP in the G17 and make it work!

Having said that, went back to loading Rainer bullets and ALL of the issues associated with the G34 went away.................

At a certain point you just have to give up and move on.

I really never solved the problem though and I still think about it. Oh well.

 

[NavelOfficer]

FWIW, Hodgdon's data lists a COL of 1.14" with the 100g SF9 bullet.

 

[swampy]

This didn't happen with sinterfire bullets but I had a similar problem with an S&W M&P9c. I switched to a slower burning powder and everything was solved. I was using 700X which has a similar burn rate to 231. I started using slower burning power pistol and the M&P now runs like greased lightning. It was as if the pressure from the powder was gone too fast to get the slide past that last millimeter of needed travel.

There could be some powder gasses leaking by the sinterfire bullet in your barrel too. I don't know if they can expand to make a good seal like copper jacketed or lead bullets...and I have to add this to start arguments...that dang Glock rifling!!!!!

 

[reloader41]

I don't think I will ever get to the bottom of the issue, but I will say those Rainers work like a champ!

 

[NavelOfficer]

Recovered SF bullets seem to have adequate rifling grooves in my experience. They really have to hit something solid to fully splatter.
In the revolver, they often separate and make two holes in the paper; one crisp hole and on sloppy hole (from the round nose tip).