Living Off The Land: Delusions and Misconceptions About Hunting and Gathering

[Realtor MA]

Not when you're hauling water, chopping wood and walking because there's no gas at the pump.

I understand about the extra physical motion but we're talking about survival not about living like a king.
Plus, if a person is carrying 20 extra pounds of body fat that gives him another 70,000 calories to use.

 

[Matt_SERE]

Great article.

I saw this a few weeks ago ( Matt Bracken linked it on his Facebook page ) it got me thinking. Mostly it got me thinking I need to store more food.

Anyone ever try to avoid carbs for a few days ? It makes you crazy. When the end of the world comes the potato farmer will be king.

I was done at 25 squirrels

Two thoughts;

1) The gun is coming with me in any scenario so the 'opportunity cost' for hunting is less than he describes
2) he cites caloric content for lean meat. The hunted animals have calorie rich fat that would certainly help in a survival situation.

Eta. Planning for 3000+ calories per person per day is a bit of an exageration.

"Animals" that are lean meat only can eventually end up starving the body of proper nutrition. This has been documented in many survival scenarios.

I do not have access to my lesson plans at this time but one of the more famous is cited in this article on the expedition that was led by Adolphus Greely.

Lady Franklin Bay Expedition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which led to this school of thought:

Rabbit starvation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Adolphus Washington Greely (March 27, 1844 – October 20, 1935), was an American Polar explorer, a United States Army officer and a recipient of the Medal of Honor.

Medal of Honor citation[edit]

He received the Medal of Honor in 1935. Rank and organization: Major General, U.S. Army, retired. Place and date: ----. Entered service at: Louisiana. Born: March 27, 1844, Newburyport, Mass. G.O. No.: 3, W.D., 1935. Act of Congress, March 21, 1935.

Citation:


For his life of splendid public service, begun on March 27, 1844, having enlisted as a private in the U.S. Army on July 26, 1861, and by successive promotions was commissioned as major general February 10, 1906, and retired by operation of law on his 64th birthday.

Greely's medal was awarded in contradiction to the revised 1916 Army warrant requiring combat action and risk of life "above and beyond the call of duty."[9] However, his Medal was the second Army presentation contrary to the combat requirement, as Charles Lindbergh (an Army reservist not on active duty) received the award for his solo transatlantic flight eight years before, in 1927. Until after WW II the Navy Medal of Honor could be awarded for noncombat actions, reflecting different criteria within the United States armed forces.

 

[atmay]

So, the moral of the story is.......instant mashed potatoes?

IN!

 

[economist]

So, the moral of the story is.......instant mashed potatoes?

IN!

No kidding. Plan to run into the woods with a 50 pound pack of weapons and survival gear? Better would be 10lbs of minimal gear and 40 pounds of food. Better yet might just be to stay where your food is and defend it.

 

[Scarab440]

if a person is carrying 20 extra pounds of body fat that gives him another 70,000 calories to use.

Yes! I'm just prepping!

 

[Archilochus]

Not when you're hauling water, chopping wood and walking because there's no gas at the pump.

Not that I'd disagree with much of the article - but I do chop wood, haul water, ride a bicycle to work, run a small sawmill on a regular basis. I would explode like the 'thin mint' guy from Monty Python if I ate anything near 3,000 cals per day.

 

[Another_David]

Anyone ever try to avoid carbs for a few days ? It makes you crazy. When the end of the world comes the potato farmer will be king.

oh hell yeah. I've done this and yes, it messes with you. Food, sleep and shelter are human's "pressure points." Watch these "reality" shows like survivor and that's what the contestants are deprived of and they go bonkers--makes for great TV.

And it's not just carbs but the carbs you're used to. I went to China with a coworker and I warned him he'd go nuty with the lack of bread and he scoffed at me, "no I'll be fine, I don't eat the American diet," he was born in South America but lived here since he was 5. They serve rice with every meal in China but no bread. Five days later at 8 pm he was disturbed like a mad dog. He went to the mini mart and the only "bread" they had was mini toasts and he ate the whole box and just sat in bewilderment of what just happened.

And also there is a greatly mistaken nostalgia that goes along with "natural" things like living off the land. Things were HARD back then before the modern age and not like "oh I don't have wifi here" hard but "oh I had 12 kids and 10 died" hard. Check out the population boom once people started getting fed and such:

 

[Archilochus]

Check out the population boom once people started getting fed and such:

And well oiled...

 

[Admin]

Not that I'd disagree with much of the article - but I do chop wood, haul water, ride a bicycle to work, run a small sawmill on a regular basis. I would explode like the 'thin mint' guy from Monty Python if I ate anything near 3,000 cals per day.

But it's wafer thin.

 

[atmay]

No kidding. Plan to run into the woods with a 50 pound pack of weapons and survival gear? Better would be 10lbs of minimal gear and 40 pounds of food. Better yet might just be to stay where your food is and defend it.

I was just excited that my favorite food is so nutritionally dense.

But it's wafer thin.

 

[June4th]

And it's not just carbs but the carbs you're used to. I went to China with a coworker and I warned him he'd go nuty with the lack of bread and he scoffed at me, "no I'll be fine, I don't eat the American diet," he was born in South America but lived here since he was 5. They serve rice with every meal in China but no bread. Five days later at 8 pm he was disturbed like a mad dog. He went to the mini mart and the only "bread" they had was mini toasts and he ate the whole box and just sat in bewilderment of what just happened.

So true. It explains why I start to be really gassy on 4th day of a vacation not eating home-cooked Chinese food.

 

[Rider]

So true. It explains why I start to be really gassy on 4th day of a vacation not eating home-cooked Chinese food.

Well, at least if we end up bugging out with you, we have been forewarned.

 

[Another_David]

So true. It explains why I start to be really gassy on 4th day of a vacation not eating home-cooked Chinese food.

LOL, yes it cuts both ways. Whenever my company has visitors from Asia the managers will take them to some expensive local restaurants for dinner but I offer to take them to the various Asian restaurants for lunch and they're so thankful.

 

[jefftk]

Anyone ever try to avoid carbs for a few days ? It makes you crazy. When the end of the world comes the potato farmer will be king.

I'm pretty sure plenty of people do this... people with gluten sensitivities, celiacs disease.... I've seen at least one thread on NES about the "paleo" diet.

 

[xtry51]

3,000+ calories a day average is quite a big exaggeration. Even when riding in college on a team for road racing I rarely ate that much. We're talking minimum 10miles per day of riding. Everyday.

I get his point about opportunity costs, but there's a lot of BS in there. Certainly there would be days exerting that much or more, but fact is most days between hunts are spent just like other carnivorous wild animals: sleeping.

He makes it sound as if people didn't live this way since the dawn of man.

 

[speedy]

Very informative article

 

[boatman]

. We're talking minimum 10miles per day of riding. Everyday.
.

You meant more than 10, right? That is about half an hour , which is 300 extra calories

Very strenuous aerobic exercise, running, swimming, x country skiing, burns 600 Cal per hour.

Summer training for football for 200 lb kid is min 3000 Cal per day to maintain wt.

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[fubar]

Looking back in memory , my thoughts while reading this were that I dont eat that much in my normal life , and I have hard physical days , for 20 years I worked labor ( mover & construction ) all day , and then martial training at night - 6 days a week.

But its pretty hard to compare the volume of bread, eggs, powerbars & haggis I eat every day to
an equivalent amount of dandelions , mice and birch bark tea.

Either way , I get it. The Northeast doesnt have pizza trees and flocks of wandering roast beef sandwiches roaming around. I'm storing food , and avoiding wandering off into the trees if at all possible.

 

[xtry51]

You meant more than 10, right? That is about half an hour , which is 300 extra calories

Very strenuous aerobic exercise, running, swimming, x country skiing, burns 600 Cal per hour.

Summer training for football for 200 lb kid is min 3000 Cal per day to maintain wt.

sent using tapatalk

I said minimum didn't I? When you're in the prime of your life, have been racing for 10 years and still racing twice a week, 10mi on off days is more than enough. That's not my main point.

You're not training for a sport when living off the land. You're not going to be backpacking hours on end. You're not going to be running around. You're going to walk, on the flattest ground possible. You're not summiting mountains everyday. You're going to be as conservative with your energy expansion as possible, or you're going to die of stupidity.

If you're using an average of 3k calories a day as a hunter/gatherer you're going to die. It's that simple. This article has great information bit lacks common sense.

 

[coastie]

I think that depending on your build and size you would easily consume 3K cals a day in a long term survival situation. When I swam in high school and rowed in college I consumed 4-5K cals a day just to maintain and more during doubles. Even now if I want to lose weight I drop down to a 2K cal a day diet and that is sitting at a desk 9 hours a day.

I think one of the issues that isnt addressed in this that will magnify the situation even more is food spoilage. Shoot that deer in August and unless you can quickly preserve that meat you will only get a couple days out of it.

 

[stacarter]

I understand about the extra physical motion but we're talking about survival not about living like a king.
Plus, if a person is carrying 20 extra pounds of body fat that gives him another 70,000 calories to use.

Sweet! I have a spare 500k calories over everyone else! Assuming I can outrun the zombies to get a chance to burn them that is.

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[ixia]

Looking back in memory , my thoughts while reading this were that I dont eat that much in my normal life , and I have hard physical days , for 20 years I worked labor ( mover & construction ) all day , and then martial training at night - 6 days a week.

But its pretty hard to compare the volume of bread, eggs, powerbars & haggis I eat every day to
an equivalent amount of dandelions , mice and birch bark tea.

Either way , I get it. The Northeast doesnt have pizza trees and flocks of wandering roast beef sandwiches roaming around. I'm storing food , and avoiding wandering off into the trees if at all possible.

came for the article, stayed for the pizza trees

 

[Scarecrow]

Not that I'd disagree with much of the article - but I do chop wood, haul water, ride a bicycle to work, run a small sawmill on a regular basis. I would explode like the 'thin mint' guy from Monty Python if I ate anything near 3,000 cals per day.

But it's wafer thin.

Mr. Creosote - YouTube

Not Safe For Work due to language.

 

[xtry51]

I think that depending on your build and size you would easily consume 3K cals a day in a long term survival situation. When I swam in high school and rowed in college I consumed 4-5K cals a day just to maintain and more during doubles. Even now if I want to lose weight I drop down to a 2K cal a day diet and that is sitting at a desk 9 hours a day.

I think one of the issues that isnt addressed in this that will magnify the situation even more is food spoilage. Shoot that deer in August and unless you can quickly preserve that meat you will only get a couple days out of it.

I think this is the most important thing you need to take away from this article and learn how to do. Worrying about calculating calories in that situation is a waste of your time.

 

[Admin]

I think one of the issues that isnt addressed in this that will magnify the situation even more is food spoilage. Shoot that deer in August and unless you can quickly preserve that meat you will only get a couple days out of it.

+1

 

[coastie]

I figure if I had to I can can about 50-60 lbs of meat every 2.5-3 hours running all my canners and with another person helping. That sounds like a lot but if I had to can the moose I got a couple years ago it would take me about 18 hours to can the 300 lbs of meat. And that was a small moose. Thats running 5 canners. If you only had one canner you would still lose probably half that meat if it was summer.

 

[xtry51]

I figure if I had to I can can about 50-60 lbs of meat every 2.5-3 hours running all my canners and with another person helping. That sounds like a lot but if I had to can the moose I got a couple years ago it would take me about 18 hours to can the 300 lbs of meat. And that was a small moose. Thats running 5 canners. If you only had one canner you would still lose probably half that meat if it was summer.

Canning is not the only way to cure meat.

 

[Scarecrow]

Canning is not the only way to cure meat.

Adding to this: if you dry it without seasoning, it can be re-hydrated and used in stews, or seasoned and eaten as jerky. Lots of uses, and it doesn't spoil easily if you protect it from moisture.

 

[xtry51]

You need to be storing salt. Lots of it.

Unless you live near the ocean.

 

[coastie]

I have a lot of salt but it is a very labor intensive way to cure/store meat. We did it a couple of times with beef and pork. It came out fine but you are salting it , checking it, wiping it and then when you want to use it you have to soak the salt out. I dont know how much faith I would put in the long term storage of it in the humid Northeast either. I have tried preserving meat in a number of different ways for a grid down scenario and for me the easiest is canning. Jerky is a hobby unless you have a smokehouse that can dry a large amount at one time. In reality there isnt going to be much meat around after about a month. And it would probably take a while for it to come back. THis includes domestic cattle, horses, sheep etc. Any meat is going to be what small animals you can raise and protect. chickens, goats rabbits etc.