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Live rounds being used in Ukraine
- Thread starter irishfan
- Start date
Palladin
NES Member
CNN has 100 dead from sniper fire by the police/military
http://us.cnn.com/2014/02/20/world/europe/ukraine-protests/index.html?c=world
http://us.cnn.com/2014/02/20/world/europe/ukraine-protests/index.html?c=world
Oh boy.
![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
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I won't share this stupid comment with my family living in the capital.
The footage shows that Ukrainian police was not trained for this. I feel sorry for them also. Watch some of those videos posted here closely and you will see police trying to help. In one video 2 policemen are tending to a fallen policeman on the ground and "freedom fighter" throws Molotov cocktail right on the fallen policeman on the ground.
Ukraine is a very complicated problem. Western Ukraine is poor and would like to join EU. Eastern Ukraine, where all industries are, is pro-Russian because Russians live there and Russians built most of the factories there. In addition you have Crimea (Krym) which was always Tatar's and they would like to join "Arab Spring" as Obama calls Taliban sponsored chaos.
What you see on the streets of Kiev is a chaos composed of people without any direction. European Union does not want them. Russia would like to have "closer ties" with Eastern portion only and the United States is arresting Beaver. This is a very difficult problem and police is stuck in the middle. Police without training and direction becomes quickly a victim.
Why give quarter to those that would give you none. They woke up and put on the badge and riot gear, they made their choice and have to live with the consequences of their decision.
Sure, I guess they are forced in the same way the protesters are forced to comply with all of the new laws coming from the dictator/parliament.
Yes, one could say that because, as some reports have indicated, several police and military have flipped the bird to the government and joined the protesters.
mav
NES Member
This is about containing Russia's political resurgence and mitigating Russia's power over the EU via Natural Gas delivered through the Ukraine. There are connections between the protest movement in the Ukraine and US interests.
Or has everyone forgotten the tapped phone conversation of a US diplomat cursing out the EU over it's handling of the Ukraine? This after the Ukraine balked at the EU aid package offered it and instead embraced an aid package from Russia.
Or has everyone forgotten the tapped phone conversation of a US diplomat cursing out the EU over it's handling of the Ukraine? This after the Ukraine balked at the EU aid package offered it and instead embraced an aid package from Russia.
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100 MAY have died? Say that to the guy in the OP video with his brain oozing on the sidewalk clearly from a shot from a precision rifle. This is worse than I thought over there
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Of the capital. Their dictator in chief fled to the eastern part of country.
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GM-GUY
NES Member
Same thing will happen here, you've got to decide (and it's a tough decision) what do you do?
You are a lawful citizen, who one day finds themselves on the wrong side of the law through no fault of their own - lets say the Dictator in Chief just starts changing laws without due process, lets just say. You go and protest, as is your right, and the police/militia/Fed protective services and the rest come and start beating the hell out you. You decide this is it and gather any and all weapons you can and start fighting.
You are a LEO, and get called out on 'a riot'; you go thinking "Well we can't have rioting", and before you know it everyone is swinging clubs and beating protesters. The protesters start swings back, and before you know it you're in a fight and start swinging your club.
This goes on and both sides now have bad feelings about the other; so they continue to injure/maim/kill each other.
Notice, the guys who win in this: The ones who started it in the first place; the politicians. They started violating the constitution gave false info to the police and caused this.
If something like this happens, don't fight the cops, cops don't fight the citizens: go after the root cause.
Of course, the above is trying to inject sanity into an insane situation.
You are a lawful citizen, who one day finds themselves on the wrong side of the law through no fault of their own - lets say the Dictator in Chief just starts changing laws without due process, lets just say. You go and protest, as is your right, and the police/militia/Fed protective services and the rest come and start beating the hell out you. You decide this is it and gather any and all weapons you can and start fighting.
You are a LEO, and get called out on 'a riot'; you go thinking "Well we can't have rioting", and before you know it everyone is swinging clubs and beating protesters. The protesters start swings back, and before you know it you're in a fight and start swinging your club.
This goes on and both sides now have bad feelings about the other; so they continue to injure/maim/kill each other.
Notice, the guys who win in this: The ones who started it in the first place; the politicians. They started violating the constitution gave false info to the police and caused this.
If something like this happens, don't fight the cops, cops don't fight the citizens: go after the root cause.
Of course, the above is trying to inject sanity into an insane situation.
From some of the articals comments, it seems some people dont get it, one comment about some of the armed sivilians killed 10 police officers, and now the police are giving pay back, its stupid
Ya i dont care who shot who first, the police are shooting at unarmed civilians who there suposed to be protecting, the police are standing in the way of the people that want the government officials out of office, and the police should not be fighting its people, only keeping The peace as best it can
Not working against them and all out fighting them, it would be there duty to try and keep the masses from being violent as best it can, but not try and stop there protest,
Ya i dont care who shot who first, the police are shooting at unarmed civilians who there suposed to be protecting, the police are standing in the way of the people that want the government officials out of office, and the police should not be fighting its people, only keeping The peace as best it can
Not working against them and all out fighting them, it would be there duty to try and keep the masses from being violent as best it can, but not try and stop there protest,
falcon123
NES Member
Watts. Rodney King. Miami. You can choose more -- Chicago, etc.
No situation is "absolutely identical" to another.
Your posting seems to imply that you want such a civil war here. Take a good look at pictures from Aleppo or Beirut in the '80s. Death. Destruction. Starvation. Misery.
No situation is "absolutely identical" to another.
Your posting seems to imply that you want such a civil war here. Take a good look at pictures from Aleppo or Beirut in the '80s. Death. Destruction. Starvation. Misery.
What, Not at all was I implying wanting a civil war here?? Just seems like there's always serious BS happening else where more often.
People in this forum are always looking to pick a fight, i'm just asking a question and want to here other peoples opinions. WTF, relax people.
Rockrivr1
NES Member
Unfortunately I don't think the the mass of Americans have the emotional courage to make a stand like this anymore. Everyone's to tied to their TVs, Computers, Video Games, Vehicles and Bank Accounts. What soccer Mom or Dad is going to use a bakery tray as defense for sniper fire? Who in this country has the fortitude to stand up and lose everything to support their beliefs? What? Maybe 5-10% at best and even that might be high.
Maybe you never experienced what happens when stand like this is taken. Or even better, what was left after "stand like this" took place. You do need to look around: Sarajevo, Pristina, Budapest, Bucuresti,....Ukraine. What was accomplished?
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