"Live ammunition going off" causes BFD to pull firefighters

[MRE]

I think many here are forgetting that when firefighters respond to a structure fire, they have absolutely no idea what is inside the structure. Holes in floors, gas cylinders, gasoline containers, illegal fireworks, live grenades, tear gas cylinders, and anything else you can think of are not uncommon to find. I've seen the youtube video, but if there are no lives in danger and a large amount of ammunition is burning and detonating, I'm not going near it because of the risk of chambered rounds, plus the chance there is something more dangerous in the same area as well.

 

[Asaltweapon]

I think many here are forgetting that when firefighters respond to a structure fire, they have absolutely no idea what is inside the structure. Holes in floors, gas cylinders, gasoline containers, illegal fireworks, live grenades, tear gas cylinders, and anything else you can think of are not uncommon to find. I've seen the youtube video, but if there are no lives in danger and a large amount of ammunition is burning and detonating, I'm not going near it because of the risk of chambered rounds, plus the chance there is something more dangerous in the same area as well.

That's what you sign up to do. My barn has an Oxy/Acl torch, shielded gas cylinder for welding, gas cans, fertilizers, cleaners, various chemicals, oils, plastics, tractor, ect. Going down the stairs into a basement fire has more risk.
If you want to be a pussy then stay on the porch.

 

[MRE]

That's what you sign up to do.

If you want to be a pussy then stay on the porch.

A great example of the reason we kill so many firefighters in preventable incidents in this country.


I didn't sign up to make stupid decisions and die when there are no lives in danger.

I am not against aggressive interior attack and I am not advocating automatically going to defensive (outside) attack without reason. But I'm not going to go sit in someone's ammo closet while it is burning just because its not supposed to be able to penetrate turnout gear. I'm going to keep my distance. That may or may not be outside the structure. It all depends on the situation.

 

[EC1]

A great example of the reason we kill so many firefighters in preventable incidents in this country.


I didn't sign up to make stupid decisions and die when there are no lives in danger.

I am not against aggressive interior attack and I am not advocating automatically going to defensive (outside) attack without reason. But I'm not going to go sit in someone's ammo closet while it is burning just because its not supposed to be able to penetrate turnout gear. I'm going to keep my distance. That may or may not be outside the structure. It all depends on the situation.

What exactly are the job/expectations for a fire fighter to perform?

 

[DrBurnsides]

#1.. Save lives
#2.. Contain fire
#3.. put fire out/save structure

Insurance covers replacement stuff. You can't easily fix burns or death.

If you want to protect your ammo dump, put an in house sprinkler on it. I think you need a screw or two lose to run into a burning building, but firefighters will walk through actual hell to save a life.

 

[DrBurnsides]

Just an FYI..
http://www.bobvila.com/articles/465-residential-sprinkler-systems/#.Vz8cFvkrLuo

I'd do a retrofit in my kitchen, and in my basement(over the dryer). Those tend to be the main causes of house fires after candles and cigarettes.

 

[KBCraig]

I'll go out on a limb and guess that there have probably been hundreds of fires over the years in dwellings where ammo was stored....just none that ever went "snap,crackle & pop" or "BOOM", therefore nobody even knew about it other than the residents....

Fires are noisy. House fires are full of things that go "BOOM!", mostly aerosol cans. They're also full of accelerants such as alcohol and petroleum distillates, many of which are in aerosol cans. They have cans of gasoline, and propane tanks which really ARE bombs in waiting.

I don't think most people, firefighters or not, understand the actual risks associated with ammunition and fire. But, if it were me, I might wonder if there were some containers of powder just waiting to go off.

"Containers of powder" are plastic jugs, and powder just burns brightly. It doesn't "go off".

I pity those whose childhood didn't include pulling the bullets out of rimfire ammo, pouring out the powder, and lighting it on fire.

 

[Len-2A Training]

"Containers of powder" are plastic jugs, and powder just burns brightly. It doesn't "go off".

I pity those whose childhood didn't include pulling the bullets out of rimfire ammo, pouring out the powder, and lighting it on fire.

At my first club we would sweep the floor of the range into a small pile and light it on fire to burn off the powder. No danger (floor is concrete).

 

[economist]

Fires are noisy. House fires are full of things that go "BOOM!", mostly aerosol cans. They're also full of accelerants such as alcohol and petroleum distillates, many of which are in aerosol cans. They have cans of gasoline, and propane tanks which really ARE bombs in waiting.



"Containers of powder" are plastic jugs, and powder just burns brightly. It doesn't "go off".

I pity those whose childhood didn't include pulling the bullets out of rimfire ammo, pouring out the powder, and lighting it on fire.

And what's the jug in? More importantly, how does a FF know? I can't see why it's so unreasonable to back off if the popcorn starts popping.

 

[MRE]

What exactly are the job/expectations for a fire fighter to perform?

That would depend on the department and locale. Most job descriptions will list things like:


1. Responds to fire incidents and conducts tasks including interior attack, ventilation, salvage, overhaul,or fire-ground support operations.

2. Responds to emergency medical incidents and serves as a member of a medical team.

3. Responds to emergency rescue incidents and supports specialized teams including various types ofrescue incidents such as fast water, dive, high angle, trench, auto extrication, and building collapse.


In general, firefighters are supposed protect life to the extent possible, protect property to the extent possible and stabilize an incident. But the incidents and circumstances they deal with are far too complex and varying to put more specifics into a job description.

Firefighters will take far more risk than normal to attempt to rescue a viable victim in a fire. Don't expect them to do the same thing when there is no victim.

 

[MRE]

I pity those whose childhood didn't include pulling the bullets out of rimfire ammo, pouring out the powder, and lighting it on fire.

I used to do that with .22s at summer camp and use it to light the "end of the week" campifire.

"Containers of powder" are plastic jugs, and powder just burns brightly. It doesn't "go off".

Right. Powder and liquid fuel won't explode when stored in their plastic jugs, however they do create potential hazards for the firefighter.

Modern homes are like ovens, well insulated and quite airtight. As a fire burns it heats up the space, and can easily reach the point of flashover, where everything in a space reaches its ignition temperature and starts burning. If a firefighter is in a room where flashover occurs, they die. Even with full turnout gear and breathing apparatus, it is not survivable. We train firefighters to recognize when an area is approaching the point of flashover so they can either prevent it by cooling the area, or evacuate before it happens. When you add energetic fuels like jugs of powder and fuel, it can greatly accelerate a flashover leaving less or no time to for the firefighter to recognize it.

Also consider what happens when 5 gallons of burning gas is released onto the floor in a small space when the plastic can melts. If you are a firefighter and are crawling on the floor near said gas can, your gear is now soaked with gas and you are on fire, in a puddle of burning gas. There is a good chance you will not survive.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

Well, you can not like it all you want but there are a shitload of fires where they will just let the house burn for whatever reason they want. If they discover a building is unoccupied and fighting the fire is too dangerous, for any reason, they can say "**** it, just let it burn" and honestly I don't blame them. If the fire is big enough that its torching your ammo the house or whatever it is is probably fully involved, too and they probably can't do much at that point anyways.

A twitter post about ammo going off really isn't enough information. The whole place could have been lit up and the ammo was just the frosting on the cake.

You also are promulgating the myth that the firefighters job is to save your house. Not really. If they do, consider yourself lucky for all the things that went in your favor. (I'm not bashing firefighters here, either, just stating reality) Their job is mostly to prevent everyone else's house from burning up. Not any different than the police mopping shit up. It's unreasonable to expect either to be able to act directly all the time. Anyone who thinks that " a firefighter or a cop will be able to protect me and my shit" is delusional. It's the reason why we have things like fire extinguishers and guns in our houses.

-Mike

Nothing more needs to be said