Keeping FA-10s

[CFFuts]

I lived in MA for a few years and sold a number of guns via private sales. I've scoured the web trying to find information on how long I should keep the FA-10s to prove that I am no longer the owner of said firearm. As far as I can tell, there is no law so I'm asking how long should am I obligated to keep them?

Is this purely a personal choice? Thoughts?

 

[FPrice]

Thoughts?

It probably depends mainly upon how long you want to be able to prove that you no longer own said firearm. It seems that (and others have stated here) that selling/transferring a firearm in Massachusetts does not remove it from your "permanent record". The FA-10 only seems to register said firearm to the buyer, not remove it from the seller.

A prudent man would probably keep their copy of the FA-10 (or a receipt from an FFL if disposed of that way) showing that you did in fact sell/transfer this firearm and no longer possess it. There is no requirement right now, but the way things seem to be going, that might not be the way of the future.

 

[CFFuts]

I've had some of these forms for almost 10 years...

Is there anyway to request my 'permanent record' stating how many guns they have on file? That way I can toss my paperwork after I confirm they have documented everything.

 

[News Shooter]

I've had some of these forms for almost 10 years...

Is there anyway to request my 'permanent record' stating how many guns they have on file? That way I can toss my paperwork after I confirm they have documented everything.

It seems to me that the real purpose of keeping them forever is in case the government screwed up (oh no..just kidding) and claimed I did something nefarious during a sale at some point and I couldn't prove otherwise. I'm keeping mine until I escape

 

[OnTheRoad]

I keep mine forever, (a) in case I sell one and it winds up becoming evidence further down the line, I can prove that it ain't mine anymore and (b) to cover my ass in case CHSB screws up and fails to enter my firearm in their database I can still show I kept up my end of the deal.

 

[cigarlover]

A few years ago at the beginning of my divorce I had to get a restraining order on my wife. Because it was a domestic dispute we both had to have restraining orders. I had to turn in my guns and a Beretta 9mm that I had purchased in 1992 or 3 came up. They asked where it was and were going to arrest me if I didnt produce it. I told them I didnt own it anymore but didnt have any proof. Because it was before they passed a law I was ok as no paperwork was needed. Nowadays I would hold onto it forever. I dont know if the registration transfers to you if you move out of state but I would guess it would.

As for finding out what they know you can probably do a freedom of info request.

 

[Chris]

Because so many of the old records are gone, I have every form ever submitted. In fact, I even have those forms for guns I got from family as well. If there is ever a question, I can produce them.

That said, if the government ever asked for them because THEY needed 'em, I'd tell them to go jump. Not my responsibility to keep THEIR records in order.

 

[vellnueve]

I've had some of these forms for almost 10 years...

Is there anyway to request my 'permanent record' stating how many guns they have on file? That way I can toss my paperwork after I confirm they have documented everything.

I think there at least used to be a way.

 

[icyclefar]

FOREVER

 

[vellnueve]

Agreed. Keep them in your safe, maybe under the carpet or something in an envelope if you don't have a safer place, but never trash them.

 

[Len-2A Training]

+1 on FOREVER!

When I bought guns in the 1970s-1980s, I never dreamed that neither my Wife or I could ever sell them thru a MA Dealer unless I could produce those old tissue-paper FA-10s from back in the dark (light?) ages.

Since the state destroyed so many records, what they have on file for me is irrelevant and totally inaccurate. I don't care what they THINK I own. I need to know what I do own, what I did own and where it went after me.

Since there is NO WAY to "remove" a gun from your name in the state database, they can (and sometimes) will come pounding on your door (Restraining Orders are a good example and demand something that you can no longer produce (as you don't own it). Only way to remove yourself from the accusations is to be able to prove that you disposed of it (so much for "innocent until proven guilty" and "burden of proof is on the prosecution" theories . . . reality is often very ugly and eye-opening).

Who knows what future legislation may further restrict transfers unless you were diligent in keeping all old paperwork??

Even if I escape MA at some future time, what if I want to sell a gun back into MA thru a MA Dealer? Need those old FA-10s to prove provenance.

You make the choice. I've made mine . . . they don't take up that much space.

 

[drgrant]

I think there at least used to be a way.

I think you can send a Notarized letter to CHSB and they'll send you
a printout of everything they have listed with your name attached
to it. I've heard from a few people, though, that it will show guns
that you don't own anymore, etc.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

. They asked where it was and were going to arrest me if I didnt produce it.

I wonder what the charge would be- failure to produce a gun that
you don't own or physically possess? Sounds just like strongarm
tactics, to me. I have no doubt they could "arrest" someone, but
it would seem to me it would be false, unless they can prove you're
lying to them, or something.

-Mike

 

[JonJ]

I can see where a department could bring a charge of a violation of a 209A protective order or possession without a license based on the fatally flawed CJIS database. I haven't heard of it happening...Yet...
The sad truth is, most people do not know how bad the database actually is. That includes most if not all LEOs and probably a good portion of CJIS employees. No one in CJIS management is going to go public and state that the system has failed.

 

[KMaurer]

I think you can send a Notarized letter to CHSB and they'll send you
a printout of everything they have listed with your name attached
to it. I've heard from a few people, though, that it will show guns
that you don't own anymore, etc.

-Mike

It started out that way, but enough people took advantage of it that they started charging ($20?) for the searches. There's a form on the CHSB web site. I'm not sure if notarization is required or not.

Ken

 

[kevin9]

It started out that way, but enough people took advantage of it that they started charging ($20?) for the searches...

Sound like fund raising to me. Yet another word for "tax". They gots to pay for that immensely effective registration system somehow.

 

[MFP4073]

Got an FA 10 for every gun I have ever bought or sold in a 3 ring binder. Also have a few bills of sales, sales receipts and gunsmith work orders. I keep any and all paper work that pertains to any firearms I have or have had. It is the only way do prove where the guns are, were or have gone with dates. It is a simple timline that gives you insurance.

I had a faulty S&W revolver a few years back that Smith replaced free of charge (after about 5 months of arguing with them they finally agreed there was something wrong with it). I actually asked for a letter stating that they were replacing a firearm with serial number xxxxx with another firearm with serial number xxxx due to a defect. Just wanted to cover my ass. They gave me the letter with no problem.

Remember we live in MA. You can never be to vigiliant with your personal record keeping. You'll thank yourself later if you ever need it.

 

[GSG]

edited

 

[Executive]

3-ring binder in a corner of the gun safe. Use those plastic sheet protectors and keep a copy of sales reciepts, FA-10s, and anything else with a date and serial number on it. It takes up little room and is easy to keep track of.

 

[Jay G]

3-ring binder in a corner of the gun safe. Use those plastic sheet protectors and keep a copy of sales reciepts, FA-10s, and anything else with a date and serial number on it. It takes up little room and is easy to keep track of.

I'm a firm believer in belt-and-suspenders.

Originals go in the fire- and waterproof safe. Copies go in a three-ring binder in the office.

All FA-10 forms, receipts, etc. are scanned and kept as a PDF file. Every year a new CD is burned with all firearm records.

One of these years I'm gonna haul everything out of the safe and take pictures to add to the record keeping...

 

[n1zfg]

3-ring binder in a corner of the gun safe. Use those plastic sheet protectors and keep a copy of sales reciepts, FA-10s, and anything else with a date and serial number on it. It takes up little room and is easy to keep track of.

+1
This is my method as well. I also tend to add things like manuals, brochures, or other things that might enhance its value as a collectible later. Never throw the records away. Even in the most pro-gun environments, feeding them that info is still the best way on the planet to get a bunch of ill tempered enforcers, looking for a suspect, off your case.

 

[FPrice]

3-ring binder in a corner of the gun safe. Use those plastic sheet protectors and keep a copy of sales reciepts, FA-10s, and anything else with a date and serial number on it. It takes up little room and is easy to keep track of.

It may only take a little room for you, but for some guys those three-ring binders add up fast!

 

[Len-2A Training]

I use hanging files (Pendaflex) in a safe that has paper records only in it (no guns, no valuables).

I also created an Access database with the pertinent info (including cost, what I sold it for, notes, etc. I own NMCollector's software and have put some guns in that, but it's time consuming to "play catchup" so I don't use it regularly.

 

[Executive]

It may only take a little room for you, but for some guys those three-ring binders add up fast!

Jeeze, Frosty. A 3" binder with lightweight plastic sheet protectors can hold about 300 pages. If you need more than that for FA-10 and related paperwork, damn... That is an impressive collection.

 

[Chris]

I use hanging files (Pendaflex) in a safe that has paper records only in it (no guns, no valuables).

This is my method as well. I have a Sentry hanging folder fire safe with all the firearm records. Its getting kind of full too. (^_^) I also have a folder with all my C&R licenses, course certificates, Instructor certifications, etc.

I also keep the receipts of any major components like scopes, cases, and I just stuck an inventory of high cap mags in as well.

I have another one of these safes that contains records for the house, cars, and personal papers.

Keeps the clutter out of the gun safe. (^_^)