It's time to get vendors to ship to Mass!

[kayak1]

This thread by "EddieCoyle" just shows how our polititions are repressing us and our rights:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/reloading/134925-dont-post-names-vendors-will-ship-components-mass.html

It also gives the back story with what's going on with the AG and why vendors like Midway won't ship to us.

As the thread points out this should be fixable but it will require a test case.

I don't know where GOAL is with this, but their page doesn't at all match reality:
GOAL's Ammunition Sales Information Page

I don't know if we could do a group buy with About us - Commonwealth Second Amendment, Inc. (comm2a.org) to have them take up this cause to get this injustice corrected.

I will be willing to kick in $250.

Do we have enough people willing to kick in, to get a president set in court?

 

[Rick1987]

I would pitch in some money.

It would be nice to be able to order from anywhere.

As long as online sellers don't already have a bad taste in their mouth. And they probably do.

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

What part of GOALS page is inaccurate?

 

[Twigg]

out of

You will NEVER get Massachusetts to change.

unless you nuke it from orbit.

Just to be sure.

 

[Acme.Armament]

What part of GOALS page is inaccurate?

Agreed.

out of

You will NEVER get Massachusetts to change.

unless you nuke it from orbit.

Just to be sure.

More like,
out of

 

[roccoracer]

I would be willing to donate, I like the idea of trying to initiate change instead of just accepting that it cant be changed.

 

[WallHack]

I would be willing to donate, I like the idea of trying to initiate change instead of just accepting that it cant be changed.

Let's start by getting a new Attorney General.

 

[drgrant]

I'd rather see GOAL/Comm2a/etc work on killing discretionary issue, a far bigger problem. This crap from the AG can be wallhacked easily enough... on the other hand wall hacking a shitty issuing authority is often expensive or nearly impossible.

 

[JayMcB]

Let's start by getting a new Attorney General.

We almost did, by making it a senator. We got Lie-a-watha Warren instead.

 

[BostonBullit]

I've said this before in other threads: what we need is an out of state FFL with deep pockets, a genuine hate for crap like is going on here, an in-state attorney who knows firearm law inside and out, and a buyer who is willing to participate.

The FFL takes out ads and OPENLY states that they ship ammo and components to licensed MA residents. Requires purchasers to send copies of their LTC, and ships all orders personal sig required (YOU have to sign for it). When the AG causes a stink everyone has to actually show up in court for the fight. when the fight is lost in the state court, which it will be, everyone has to see it through at the federal level as far as it goes.

It doesn't matter if we all pitch in to some common fund if you don't have the FFL willing to play along for the duration.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You will NEVER get Massachusetts to change.

That's basically what Jim Wallace told me a few years ago when I asked if GOAL would do anything about the prohibition on handgun ownership by resident legal aliens.

When the fight is lost in the state court, which it will be, everyone has to see it through at the federal level as far as it goes.

Read up on the concept of abstention by the federal courts. Once it's in state court, the feds will generally stay out of it and tell you to appeal to a higher level court within the state system.

The proper way to get such a case to federal court is to raise a federal issue, and find a way it ca be brought directly to federal court. Also, initiating action gives you control. If you try to rely on an appeal of an AG persecution, you cannot control when the AG will take action. The AG could, out of inertia, or strategy, wait until there were 100 $5000 per sale incidents to take action with $500K on the table rather than take the dealer to court for a single sale where the risk is a manageable $5000.

 

[noxin]

Isn't interfering with interstate commerce q federal issue?

 

[atilla]

Isn't interfering with interstate commerce q federal issue?

yeah but in the case of guns? go right ahead, mrs. coakley. have a nice oppression.

 

[seanc]

This thread by "EddieCoyle" just shows how our polititions are repressing us and our rights:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/reloading/134925-dont-post-names-vendors-will-ship-components-mass.html

It also gives the back story with what's going on with the AG and why vendors like Midway won't ship to us.

As the thread points out this should be fixable but it will require a test case.

I don't know where GOAL is with this, but their page doesn't at all match reality:
GOAL's Ammunition Sales Information Page

I don't know if we could do a group buy with About us - Commonwealth Second Amendment, Inc. (comm2a.org) to have them take up this cause to get this injustice corrected.

I will be willing to kick in $250.

Do we have enough people willing to kick in, to get a president set in court?

Why don't YOU move to another state, start up a business and then ship to Mass as the test case?

Asking a business owner from another state to deal with the unlimited resources of a state and an AG with an agenda is a real lot to ask for a very small profit.

You have to look at this from a business owner's perspective. It is just NOT WORTH IT! To risk (hundreds of) thousands of dollars and potentially years in litigation expenses potentially bankrupting you, or just not bother with the Ma BS and ship stuff profitably and without issue to other states is really a no brainer.

 

[Terminator03]

I'd rather see GOAL/Comma/etc work on killing discretionary issue, a far bigger problem. This crap from the AG can be wallhacked easily enough... on the other hand wall hacking a shitty issuing authority is often expensive or nearly impossible.

I'm with Mike on this one. The online ordering is a very minor, and sometimes able to circumvent issue, whereas the discretionary licensing is something that really affects everyone in this state, especially those who happen by sheer luck to be in a red town. If there was going to be a group buy type of campaign that would be the one to get behind.

 

[jasons]

This thread by "EddieCoyle" just shows how our polititions are repressing us and our rights:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/reloading/134925-dont-post-names-vendors-will-ship-components-mass.html

It also gives the back story with what's going on with the AG and why vendors like Midway won't ship to us.

As the thread points out this should be fixable but it will require a test case.

I don't know where GOAL is with this, but their page doesn't at all match reality:
GOAL's Ammunition Sales Information Page

I don't know if we could do a group buy with About us - Commonwealth Second Amendment, Inc. (comm2a.org) to have them take up this cause to get this injustice corrected.

I will be willing to kick in $250.

Do we have enough people willing to kick in, to get a president set in court?

So you're willing to kick in $250 bucks if some out of state vendor who has nothing to do with our election of serial DB AGs will set them self up for a legal test case that will cost many thousands of dollars and will likely not win? Is that accurate?

 

[Terminator03]

Why don't YOU move to another state, start up a business and then ship to Mass as the test case?

Asking a business owner from another state to deal with the unlimited resources of a state and an AG with an agenda is a real lot to ask for a very small profit.

You have to look at this from a business owner's perspective. It is just NOT WORTH IT! To risk (hundreds of) thousands of dollars and potentially years in litigation expenses potentially bankrupting you, or just not bother with the Ma BS and ship stuff profitably and without issue to other states is really a no brainer.

^This about sums it all up right here. There are way too many other states where these companies can just do normal business with and not have any of the risks and bs associated with dealing with MA. From a sheer business perspective it would be suicidal to take on a state that wouldn't even come close to netting business revenue close to matching the litigation costs alone. Now, this could change eventually if more, and more states jump on the bandwagon with MA, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[mclina]

My fear would be that the final outcome of this is a new law that clarifies the AG position.

There is nothing that I have wanted but been unable to buy without a little bit of leg work. If they re-write the law to formally prohibit what we are trying to do, then we will get nothing.

 

[Palladin]

This thread by "EddieCoyle" just shows how our polititions are repressing us and our rights:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/reloading/134925-dont-post-names-vendors-will-ship-components-mass.html

It also gives the back story with what's going on with the AG and why vendors like Midway won't ship to us.

As the thread points out this should be fixable but it will require a test case.

I don't know where GOAL is with this, but their page doesn't at all match reality:
GOAL's Ammunition Sales Information Page

I don't know if we could do a group buy with About us - Commonwealth Second Amendment, Inc. (comm2a.org) to have them take up this cause to get this injustice corrected.

I will be willing to kick in $250.

Do we have enough people willing to kick in, to get a president set in court?

interesting challenge from someone with 12 posts.

As for Goal's page, it reflects reality

 

[Eloquent_fist]

According to my legal dream team over at E-How :-D
The easiest, and I use that term loosely, manner in which to overturn any law is by proving unconstitutionality, discrimination or both.
In that light, would not the non-ambulatory [i.e. handicapped] be such a discriminated group by the current non-laws that are being imposed.
You can't go to the store! So interstate commerce is or would be your only path as I can't think of a single in-state store that has a shopping cart like website.

Get the Wounded Warriors Coalition here in Massachusetts as a group plaintiff and run from there.
I'd certainly contribute financially to that battle.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

So you're willing to kick in $250 bucks if some out of state vendor who has nothing to do with our election of serial DB AGs will set them self up for a legal test case that will cost many thousands of dollars and will likely not win? Is that accurate?

This issue is not likely to be remedied by having a dealer set himself up as a defendant, and then trying to beat the state in a highly marsupial court.

Also, no matter how much $$ you raise you will not be able to indemnify an out of state dealer, without limitation, for any civil assessments and legal fees incurred. Given that, it will be next to impossible to find one willing to play ball on this one.

Once an individual or a business is a defendant, the attorney's task shifts from tilting at the state windmill to minimizing the damage to the client. In order to stand a chance, a case should:

a. Be brought in federal, rather than state, court. We already know how the state court will rule - an appeal within the state system serves no purpose other than to keep some lawyers employed.

b. Be brought on behalf of one or more damaged plaintiffs, not used as the basis of a defense. As a plaintiff, the risks is legal fees - not fines from the AG's office.

 

[ToddDubya]

Get the Wounded Warriors Coalition here in Massachusetts as a group plaintiff and run from there.
I'd certainly contribute financially to that battle.

IIRC they don't like to be affiliated with gun-related things.

 

[Len-2A Training]

What part of GOALS page is inaccurate?

Well, it does not mention the "cease & desist" orders that many vendors felt forced to sign and the intimidation factor on others. What GOAL has stated there is true, but certainly does not tell the whole story.

 

[seanc]

This issue is not likely to be remedied by having a dealer set himself up as a defendant, and then trying to beat the state in a highly marsupial court.

Once an individual or a business is a defendant, the attorney's task shifts from tilting at the state windmill to minimizing the damage to the client. In order to stand a chance, a case should:

a. Be brought in federal, rather than state, court. We already know how the state court will rule - an appeal within the state system serves no purpose other than to keep some lawyers employed.

b. Be brought on behalf of one or more damaged plaintiffs, not used as the basis of a defense.

What is most likely to happen is that the business owner would be tied up in years of interrogatories, discovery, motions, etc. racking up thousands/ millions in having their legal team respond to them. All for a trial that may never actually happen. The general idea for most large companies is to bury the defendant in legals bills so they just give up or go out of business without ever having to (or getting to) go to trial (and potentially having the case NOT go the state/ big Co's way).

This is the way the big boys do it.

Unless that defending company has a staff of full time lawyers on their payroll, it's a killer.

 

[jasons]

IIRC they don't like to be affiliated with gun-related things.

I have no idea what the "Wounded Warriors Coalition" is, but the over-paid executives at the Wounded Warrior Project have made anti-gun statements on the record in the past.

 

[kayak1]

interesting challenge from someone with 12 posts.

As for Goal's page, it reflects reality

It's true that I am new. I haven't had my LTC for very long and thus I am frustrated with the lack of ammunition. I started reloading as I can't find any ammunition, now I can't find any small primers. I am willing to pay the $27 hazmat fee, even with that I can't get anything shipped to me.


Quoting from the Goal's page it states that vendors can't understand our laws:

Several companies specializing in internet and catalog sales have made a business decision not to sell to duly licensed Massachusetts residents because they find it nearly impossible to understand our convoluted state laws.

When you have received a shakedown letter from the MA AG's office or know of other vendors that have received such letters it's not about being confused.

If GOAL thinks that it's just confusion it would be great if they can list the steps a vendor needs to do for shipping components to MA. I had read that we need to fax a copy of our LTC to a vendor and have them keep it on file for 3 years. Even that I don't know if that's correct.

Having a good FAQ for purchasers and vendors for what to be done to keep things MA compliant to remove any leverage that the AG might have would be great.

 

[nightpoison]

First, I'm just curious. Second, i am not sure if it's possible or how it works. But Wouldn't a class action suit against the AG covering not just the ammo, but the hand gun issues as well, based on interstate commerce and constitutional impact be a better direction. It can be addressed at the federal level, it takes the fight to them, and I'm sure there's enough people to sign on.

The real issue is how to pay for it as a suit requires winning an award to pay for the laser. ?????????? Not sure.....

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

 

[WallHack]

This crap from the AG can be wallhacked easily enough... on the other hand wall hacking a shitty issuing authority is often expensive or nearly impossible.

Woah woah, leave me outta this. I don't need my (imaginary) dog shot!

 

[Nick Fury]

It's true that I am new. I haven't had my LTC for very long and thus I am frustrated with the lack of ammunition. I started reloading as I can't find any ammunition, now I can't find any small primers. I am willing to pay the $27 hazmat fee, even with that I can't get anything shipped to me.

Congrats on the license to carry. Do you have a license to drive? If so take a drive up north along Interstate 93 to the Peshawar Valley of New England. Any one of a dozen or more vendors with stands set up alongside the road will be more than happy to accommodate your needs. I believe it is even legal to return to your Libtard country with most if not all of your purchases...

 

[NewGuyRay]

Hasn't this battle already been fought and "won" over a different "mail order" product -- Wine? There is some similarity in the issue so some of the ground work has already been done?

Of course, how easy is it to buy wine online if you live in Mass? Despite the victory in federal court, Mass just ignores the court's ruling and the legislature has done nothing to bring the state into compliance.