Is a FAL or HK91 necessary for my collection???

[PatMcD]

I'd like an HK-91, just because I had a chance to shoot an HK-91 with a registered sear. Full-auto .308 battle rifle is pointless, but still a giggle. With the current cost of .308, a .308 rifle that mangles its brass the way an HK-91 does isn't terribly practical, though.

I've got an AR-10, M1A loaded, and a FAL. Out of those, I'd put the FAL last.

A lot of fan boys say the FAL is great because of the adjustable gas system. They claim that the adjustable gas system makes it better because you can adjust it. What they don't tell you is that if you adjust it wrong, you can turn your FAL into an awkward club. I know, because I've done it.

I'm the dolt who didn't follow the directions and adjusted it wrong. Without enough gas going to the piston, the bolt carrier will short cycle and the cartridge case won't be fully extracted. In my case, the cartridge case got jammed between the bolt carrier and the dust cover. It was jammed in hard enough that I couldn't cycle the charging handle. And without the bolt carrier able to go forward, I couldn't unlock the upper from the lower. And without being able to unlock the upper from the lower, I couldn't remove the dust cover.

If you adjust the gas system the other way -- put too much gas to the bolt carrier -- that can be just as bad. With too much gas pressure the gun will cycle too fast and call pull the head off the cartridge case, leaving the rest of the cartridge case in the chamber. If you don't have a cartridge case extractor tool, you're screwed.

Now, is adjusting the FAL gas system "hard"? No. Here it is:



On the other hand, here is the M1A's procedure for adjusting the gas system:

Yup, you don't have to adjust the M1A's gas system -- it just works. Sometimes simple is better than more complicated.

As for how the gun shoots, I find that the FAL trigger is pretty horrendous and the sights are primitive. The FAL receiver is quite long, putting my support hand way out there. It just isn't comfortable to shoot offhand.

In contrast, the M1A has a great trigger, fabulous sights, and balances nicely. It just feels right in my hand.

If you want to scope your .308, the AR-10 variants are better for that.

- - - Updated - - -





I own both an AR-10 and a FAL. If forced to choose between the two, I'd take the AR-10 every day and twice on Sunday.

Very good synopsis.

 

[Lip]

PTR-91

Save some, no alot of $$$$.

Ditto plus the mags are wicked cheap.

 

[7.62x39]

I didn't adjust my M1A gas system and I haven't had to touch it since.



Mine is a DSA trigger.

Why do I see more and more companies offering adjustable gas blocks for ARs? Somebody should inform them that they are on a fools errand. lol
Not that it will ever be an issue with with any of us, but I think we all know that the real reason the FALs use an adjustable gas system is to keep them in the fight. No timeouts to clean a dirty rifle.

I think that DSA will be the first to tell you that their FAL FCGs require some fitting. Check FALfiles I think there are some threads over there on the subject. Look into it because after you tune it up, it's actually a pretty nice trigger.

 

[ggboy]

Paxton Keil used an H&k 91.
Need I say more?
ggboy

 

[M1911]

Why do I see more and more companies offering adjustable gas blocks for ARs? Somebody should inform them that they are on a fools errand.

Because more and more people are buying suppressors, that's why.

Not that it will ever be an issue with with any of us, but I think we all know that the real reason the FALs use an adjustable gas system is to keep them in the fight. No timeouts to clean a dirty rifle.

How many times do you really think a soldier adjusted the gas system in the middle of a battle? I'd wager none.

How many times have you read criticisms of the M1 Garand or M14 for being unreliable in difficult conditions? Everything I've read said that they were very reliable in very difficult conditions, and they achieved that reliability without an adjustable gas system.

In my opinion, the adjustable gas system on the FAL is a solution in search of a problem. It is an unnecessary and, instead of being something that increases reliability, it is something that decreases reliability precisely because it can be misadjusted by dolts like me.

 

[Wrench75]

FAL is on my list for some dumb reason too, so I feel you

This is where I'm at. I can't really find a reason. But it's still on the list.

 

[the_shootist]

This is where I'm at. I can't really find a reason. But it's still on the list.

It's a lot cheaper if it stays there

 

[M1911]

This is where I'm at. I can't really find a reason. But it's still on the list.

Just because you want it is a good enough reason.

 

[the_shootist]

Just because you want it is a good enough reason.

Well, that sounds great but, do you think his wife will buy that?

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Most likely because there is no such thing as a pre / post may supressor but in order to purchase a mg it has to be transferable..

As time goes forward less and less mg's will be available. Once the tranferable mg's wear out thats all there is...no more...

Make sence ?

Because more and more people are buying suppressors,

 

[7.62x39]

In my opinion, the adjustable gas system on the FAL is a solution in search of a problem. It is an unnecessary and, instead of being something that increases reliability, it is something that decreases reliability precisely because it can be misadjusted by dolts like me.

That's twice now that you've admitted that the only real problem was not with the system itself, but the operator. lol
All I know is that I can fire anything from a lightly loaded 110 grain bullet all the way out to a max loaded 208 grain projectile without hammering my FAL or sending brass into the next zip code, all with simple click one way or the other.

 

[M1911]

Most likely because there is no such thing as a pre / post may supressor but in order to purchase a mg it has to be transferable..

As time goes forward less and less mg's will be available. Once the tranferable mg's wear out thats all there is...no more...

Make sence ?

No, not a bit.

The reason people are putting adjustable gas blocks on ARs is not because ARs per se need adjustable gas blocks (which was what 7.62x39 was implying). It is because an AR will need an adjustable gas block if you want to put a suppressor on it. Which has nothing to do with full auto.

 

[seanc]

Why is the FAL gas adjustment like putting a huge "do not press this button" button in front of people?

If you shoot the gun and it fires and cycles, leave it alone.. Don't touch it. That's all.

If you are riding around and see an electric fence, do you HAVE to pull over immediately and pee on it? No? There you go then.

I really like my FAL. But I would get rid of my fal first if it came to a choice between the M1a and the FAL.

 

[turbo38gn]

I'd love to get a SCAR. Only problem is the low $2k price tag with proprietary 20rnd mags that are costly. I also don't get why FNH builds the civilian version in Belgium, deliberately neuters them to meet 911 then has the USA factory un-neuter them so 911 doesn't come into affect. Just build them in the US and bypass all that hassle.

As to real FAL or HKs, I'd love to get a real one but like the SCAR they are not cheap. I know I'll not take a chance with a CETME, but maybe another clone will work. The PTR even starts at $1K.

How bout it.. FNH building this new one in the US...

http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/autoloading-rifles/fnar-heavy/

Oh ya.... and I just picked up a PTR-91.. from my research... it was the way to go..

 

[drgrant]

I'd love to get a SCAR. Only problem is the low $2k price tag with proprietary 20rnd mags that are costly. I also don't get why FNH builds the civilian version in Belgium, deliberately neuters them to meet 911 then has the USA factory un-neuter them so 911 doesn't come into affect. Just build them in the US and bypass all that hassle.

As to real FAL or HKs, I'd love to get a real one but like the SCAR they are not cheap. I know I'll not take a chance with a CETME, but maybe another clone will work. The PTR even starts at $1K.

Instead of writing all that all you had to say waa " you have cash burning a hole in the pocket but still trying to skinflint this one", lmao. This is why i think taking that limited amount of money and using it on ammo is a better idea. This whole idea is frought with peril and you already have plenty of .308s.

-Mike

 

[Rockrivr1]

Instead of writing all that all you had to say waa " you have cash burning a hole in the pocket but still trying to skinflint this one", lmao. This is why i think taking that limited amount of money and using it on ammo is a better idea. This whole idea is frought with peril and you already have plenty of .308s.

-Mike

"Waa"??? lol Oh I fully agree with you, but it's this stupid itch to actually own one. I'm trying to ignore it, but if history is any guideline, I'm going to fail miserably trying to do that........

 

[calsdad]

"Waa"??? lol Oh I fully agree with you, but it's this stupid itch to actually own one. I'm trying to ignore it, but if history is any guideline, I'm going to fail miserably trying to do that........

Give in - you know you want to.

 

[45collector]

Troy if you come to the Spring Trigger Breakout at Monadnock May 2nd you can try a mag through my FAL.

 

[mursenary4]

PTR 91 with a claw mount and a ton of cheap g3 mags for the win

 

[calsdad]

Because more and more people are buying suppressors, that's why.



How many times do you really think a soldier adjusted the gas system in the middle of a battle? I'd wager none.

How many times have you read criticisms of the M1 Garand or M14 for being unreliable in difficult conditions? Everything I've read said that they were very reliable in very difficult conditions, and they achieved that reliability without an adjustable gas system.

In my opinion, the adjustable gas system on the FAL is a solution in search of a problem. It is an unnecessary and, instead of being something that increases reliability, it is something that decreases reliability precisely because it can be misadjusted by dolts like me.

Just set it and forget about it.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270183

There's a fella over on falfiles that has run a FAL through 13,500 rounds so far without a cleaning. I don't believe he has adjusted the gas either. Heres a copy paste of the first post and a link...

Current round count without cleaning:13,500

This is a tale of a legendary rifle from Texas known as Ol' Dirty. The rifle is owned by FAL Files and TX-FNFAL member, James. This is not a story for the faint of heart or for AR-15 owners so read at your own risk.

A year or so ago, James decided that he would conduct a duration experiment just to see how long a standard post ban FAL rifle could go without a cleaning of any kind. The rifle started life as a nice StG 58 kit built on an Imbel receiver with a DSA fake long Belgian flash hider and a spray can camo finish. Since I have known James, the rifle has always been very reliable and accurate and really one of his favorite firearms.

The experiment started as a challange to see if a FAL could withstand continued abuse and filthiness that a less robust rifle could only dream of. Ol' Dirty has had almost 4000 rounds of various surplus ammo fired through it without a cleaning. The chamber area has an incredibly nasty build-up of carbon (it actually now has an almost solid carbon feed ramp). The gas plug is pretty much frozen up from carbon fouling and I don't think the piston has been seen for some time now. The rifle still cycles perfectly and the accuracy is as good as ever. I have shot my rifles against this rifle many times and it is tough if not impossible to beat. Accurate shot placement out to 400 and 500 yards is common for James and Ol' Dirty.

It just goes to prove what the FAL can accomplish under the most extremely filthy conditions.

Update: I have been informed that this was never intended to be an experiment but that James just doesn't like to clean his rifles.

Look in HORROR

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...t=legend+dirty

I think the adjustable gas feature is all pro. It gives you the ability to set your rifle for maximum efficiency/minimum recoil or rifle wear and tear.

If you doubt you have the correct gas setting and you are in a situation where you cant "dial it in" all you have to do is set it at "1" and let her rip.

 

[turbo38gn]

Here's my new to me PTR91..... DOES it have an adjustable gas block. .. i haven't played with it yet..

 

[45collector]

That's amazing. I could never go that many rounds without cleaning my FAL. It has sentimental value for me though. And honestly I couldn't afford to shoot mine that often!

 

[Varmint]

So between M1A, FAL, HK91, AR-10, SCAR (what else, Sig 716?) what should one get if you can only get one .308?

 

[Rockrivr1]

So between M1A, FAL, HK91, AR-10, SCAR (what else, Sig 716?) what should one get if you can only get one .308?

With only $2K, you can take the SCAR off the list. That won't even get you the rifle. I love my LAR-8 (AR-10 Clone) but she is heavy. My Loaded M1A is one of my most accurate semi 308. I'm looking at HK and FAL so I can't say. You should add in a good 308 Bolt rifle into your list. Out of what I have, I'd most likely stay with my M1A. But, I'd want to get the scout if it was going to be my SHTF rifle.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

SIG AMT or SIG PE57 Swiss perfection..I owned one in the late 1970's. a Sig 510-4.

So between M1A, FAL, HK91, AR-10, SCAR (what else, Sig 716?) what should one get if you can only get one .308?

 

[Pinion]

Nope.

Here's my new to me PTR91..... DOES it have an adjustable gas block. .. i haven't played with it yet..

 

[Cur]

So between M1A, FAL, HK91, AR-10, SCAR (what else, Sig 716?) what should one get if you can only get one .308?

I'd say it's all about personal preference.

Old school flavor? M1A...
Love of things German... HK/PTR
Right Arm of the Free World kind of guy? FAL, of course.
Legos for grown men? AR10

I decided I didn't care about magazine size, and I went with the AR10, but I built mine and had a rather flexible budget at the time. Started with a Mega MaTen keymod matched upper/lower/rail and went from there. Bought a bunch of 10 round PMAGs and done. With off the shelf parts it shoots better than MOA to 310 yards with FGMM and on the odd day I can do my part (longest I've had access to).

That said, I'll still own a M1A, because I have a love for US battle rifles.

I'd like a SCAR, but it's way down on my list.

 

[Varmint]

I'd say it's all about personal preference.

Old school flavor? M1A...
Love of things German... HK/PTR
Right Arm of the Free World kind of guy? FAL, of course.
Legos for grown men? AR10

I decided I didn't care about magazine size, and I went with the AR10, but I built mine and had a rather flexible budget at the time. Started with a Mega MaTen keymod matched upper/lower/rail and went from there. Bought a bunch of 10 round PMAGs and done. With off the shelf parts it shoots better than MOA to 310 yards with FGMM and on the odd day I can do my part (longest I've had access to).

That said, I'll still own a M1A, because I have a love for US battle rifles.

I'd like a SCAR, but it's way down on my list.

Thanks - I kind of feel like I should own an M1A as well, even if it's not the best choice, I love those. Just have to pick the version of the Scout Squad (walnut etc).

Are there lightweight .308 semiautos?

 

[M1911]

Are there lightweight .308 semiautos?

No. And you might not want one. .308 has a lot more recoil than .223. The weight helps reduce the felt recoil.

All of these .308s are pretty big, heavy guns.

 

[Varmint]

No. And you might not want one. .308 has a lot more recoil than .223. The weight helps reduce the felt recoil.

All of these .308s are pretty big, heavy guns.

Cool, that's fine, I have a lightweight AR for SHTF when I need my arms free to carry stereos from the local Walmart.