Illegal Immigrants Don't Have the Constitutional Right to Own Firearms

[Boris]

illegals in US belong in jail (unless they are deported right away)

if 2a is a "natural, Gd given right" than may be inmates in prisons have rights to buy guns?

the whole discussion about which illegals are violent rapists and who are just peacefully siphon cash from taxpayers is mute. They are ****ing illegals, beyond the law, the only thing they should hope for is miranda.

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

illegals in US belong in jail (unless they are deported right away)

if 2a is a "natural, Gd given right" than may be inmates in prisons have rights to buy guns?

the whole discussion about which illegals are violent rapists and who are just peacefully siphon cash from taxpayers is mute. They are ****ing illegals, beyond the law, the only thing they should hope for is miranda.

Some inmates should be allowed the privilege of exercising their right to bear arms when they leave the prison system. Non-violent drug offenses, larceny (and tax violations), and false imprisonment to name a few.

I'm totally fine with putting all the illegals in jail. Wait a second that gives me an idea. Let's make them chain gang landscapers for D.C. and other capital complexes. It'll help lower state budgets and put an unused workforce to task. It takes a substantial amount of money to imprison people after all.

 

[Lip]

Oh I assure you, most illegals are much different from the thug breaking into your house. I understand your reaction, but most of them aren't thugs.

No the sneak across our borders stealing services, importing 3rd world diseases and strain our otherwise weak healthcare system. Kill our citizens on the road. Etal, no they are much worse.

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

No the sneak across our borders stealing services, importing 3rd world diseases and strain our otherwise weak healthcare system. Kill our citizens on the road. Etal, no they are much worse.

People steal our services and they are nationals too. There's both sides of the coin and there are illegals which don't 'leach' off the system.

There are accidents on the road every day between citizens that cause death. Focusing on illegals just makes them a scapegoat. The problems we are facing are far more systemic than boarder jumping.

 

[ochmude]

No the sneak across our borders stealing services, importing 3rd world diseases and strain our otherwise weak healthcare system. Kill our citizens on the road. Etal, no they are much worse.

I'm really trying to avoid steering this thread away from the original topic, but I have to say you're painting with a very broad brush. I interact with illegals on a daily basis and most of them are nothing at all like what you describe.

 

[economist]

The natural right to self defense has nothing to do with nationality.

 

[Lip]

I'm really trying to avoid steering this thread away from the original topic, but I have to say you're painting with a very broad brush. I interact with illegals on a daily basis and most of them are nothing at all like what you describe.

I'm in the trades, I see them all the time too. Stealing jobs from citizens. Undercutting all facets of our society. I have no issue with the immigrants we screen to come here. Just the crimigrants that invade us.

 

[Admin]

I'm really trying to avoid steering this thread away from the original topic, but I have to say you're painting with a very broad brush. I interact with illegals on a daily basis and most of them are nothing at all like what you describe.

I don't know the ones I saw in California were killing hospitals and destroying public schools.

 

[joeendris]

He's only entitled to American privileges if he becomes a citizen. He still has his natural rights, including the ability to keep and bear arms.

Tell that to the schmucks in Mass, DC, Chicago, etc. Those nazis don't believe their citizens have that right.

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

I'm in the trades, I see them all the time too. Stealing jobs from citizens. Undercutting all facets of our society. I have no issue with the immigrants we screen to come here. Just the crimigrants that invade us.

Is working harder for less a crime?

The way the laws are right now our food production industry would likely collapse if all alien workers were booted.

Tell that to the schmucks in Mass, DC, Chicago, etc. Those nazis don't believe their citizens have that right.

Oh, I have.

I think combating fascism is a far more effective goal than Mexican's with their papers out of order.

Illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem if the gov't got it's nose out of private affairs and markets.

 

[Lip]

People steal our services and they are nationals too. There's both sides of the coin and there are illegals which don't 'leach' off the system.

There are accidents on the road every day between citizens that cause death. Focusing on illegals just makes them a scapegoat. The problems we are facing are far more systemic than boarder jumping.

Scapegoat? They are INVADERS, criminals. Boot them then we can focus on our own.

 

[joeendris]

Is working harder for less a crime?

The way the laws are right now our food production industry would likely collapse if all alien workers were booted.

I have to disagree here. When I was 13/14 years old, my first job was a farm. I worked side-by-side to a family of Jamaicans who were here legally. Kick ass workers, and fun to work with. I learned a lot during that time.

Nowadays, how many of our early teenage kids are working the tough, blue collar jobs? Is it because they're lazy? Maybe, because we have pussies for parents. Is it because the jobs aren't there? Maybe, because the same parents look the other way as Juan picks vegetables that I picked 25 years ago...

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

Scapegoat? They are INVADERS, criminals. Boot them then we can focus on our own.

As I said above our food system would collapse. Our own would starve.

They are scapegoats because illegal immigration is a by-product of government planned economics.

This is analogous to booking users over dealers. It doesn't actually solve our problems.

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

I have to disagree here. When I was 13/14 years old, my first job was a farm. I worked side-by-side to a family of Jamaicans who were here legally. Kick ass workers, and fun to work with. I learned a lot during that time.

Nowadays, how many of our early teenage kids are working the tough, blue collar jobs? Is it because they're lazy? Maybe, because we have pussies for parents. Is it because the jobs aren't there? Maybe, because the same parents look the other way as Juan picks vegetables that I picked 25 years ago...

The gov't was just trying to move a bill last week that would have outlawed minors from working on family farms. The industrial aggro-complex (of today) can't survive without undocumented workers.

 

[GunGrey]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

I don't see where its mentioned as an inalienable right? These are our Bill of Rights as citizens of the United States of America.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I don't see firearms listed? I see Life Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

 

[Lip]

As I said above our food system would collapse. Our own would starve.

They are scapegoats because illegal immigration is a by-product of government planned economics.

This is analogous to booking users over dealers. It doesn't actually solve our problems.

Bovine Scatology. Our food system would most certainly not collapse. However you may end up paying more for the things you take for granted. But then that's already happening.

 

[30Mauser]

 

[ochmude]

As I said above our food system would collapse. Our own would starve.

They are scapegoats because illegal immigration is a by-product of government planned economics.

This is analogous to booking users over dealers. It doesn't actually solve our problems.

Bingo. Lip, you say to just "boot them then we can focus on our own." Have you ever booted an alien? More importantly, have you ever booted the same alien twice? They keep coming back for a reason. I've never seen a white person harvesting lettuce in fields in southern Arizona.

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

Bovine Scatology. Our food system would most certainly not collapse. However you may end up paying more for the things you take for granted. But then that's already happening.

What happens when the gov't can't pay for the grain anymore? Through both EBT cost and farmer subsidies?

Mexican's aren't at the heart of this issue and illegal immigration isn't either. As I said earlier in the thread....you're scapegoating. There's clearly larger systemic problems at work. By the fact alone that a person born on another side of an imaginary line or not, gives the authority to the state, to deny their right to self preservation shows us the experiment has ended.

 

[TomH]

Try to remember that many Constitutional rights are meant as an affirmation of existing natural rights. Bearing arms is one of them. Now of course, they should simply be arrested, weapons confiscated, then deported for not being here legally. But the possession of a weapon shouldn't be a crime for anyone.

 

[economist]

Try to remember that many Constitutional rights are meant as an affirmation of existing natural rights. Bearing arms is one of them. Now of course, they should simply be arrested, weapons confiscated, then deported for not being here legally. But the possession of a weapon shouldn't be a crime for anyone.

+1

 

[Phlach]

Is working harder for less a crime?

In this context, yes.

The way the laws are right now our food production industry would likely collapse if all alien workers were booted.

Wrong. Prices would go up a little, unemployment rates would go down a little, and we would all live happily ever after.

I think combating fascism is a far more effective goal than Mexican's with their papers out of order.

Paperwork? Really? Is that what this is about? So if I break into your house, I guess that's just a little paperwork mixup at the registry of deeds, eh?

Illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem if the gov't got it's nose out of private affairs and markets.

Oh, right, because then no one would want to come here...

 

[TomH]

Oh, right, because then no one would want to come here...

Only people who wanted to work an honest day's work would come at that point. If gov actually got out of the market and social areana (almost no taxes, no social programs, handouts, etc) then the only incentive to come here would be to actually work. I don't see anything wrong with that generally. It's the handouts/benefits from the gov that are the issue with illegals imo. If you look at it that way, it has nothing to do with these people at all... the problem lies 100% on our gov!

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

In this context, yes.

Who are you to set another mans worth? Is it our minimum wage laws?

Wrong. Prices would go up a little, unemployment rates would go down a little, and we would all live happily ever after.

Not that simple.

Paperwork? Really? Is that what this is about? So if I break into your house, I guess that's just a little paperwork mixup at the registry of deeds, eh?

Present to me a compelling argument that a man born south (or north) of a specific latitude can't protect himself? Especially someone who chooses the same creed.

Your house is private property. Who are you to say who others can hire and keep on their private property? Especially when they are presenting no imminent personal danger or violating natural rights?

It all boils down to paperwork. Do they have paperwork to be in the country? Is it valid? Do they have the proper paperwork to for taxation? Is it valid? Do you have a permit for that firearm? Is it valid? Do you have a permit to drive a car? Is it valid? Do you have a permit for your business? Is it valid? Do you have a death certificate? Is it valid?

The anger towards illegal immigration is more an example of mass stockholm syndrome than anything else.

Oh, right, because then no one would want to come here...

We just didn't call it illegal immigration back then....

 

[terraformer]

From his boss:

A. He never mentioned anything like that at work. Like I said, he was a just a hard worker. He’s a quiet boy. He did what he was told, asked a lot of questions to learn. Started out at the bottom, worked his way up to being a rig operator. And the hours we worked, I would find it difficult to believe from my perspective. I mean, we worked 13 to 15 hours a day. And getting filthy nasty doing the work we did, getting oil all over him, I just can’t - - you know, I can’t see that, you know, being possible.
Q. Okay. Had - - had you - - tell about his drinking habits
A. Well, you know, they’re - - they’re all users of all kinds of substances, and I never saw him smoke, chew tobacco, drink or curse which was very unusual for rig hands.

 

[josh2600]

I'm always very amused by the indignation of those who get their drawers in a snit over the whole bit about illegal aliens not having constitutional rights. On the surface it all sounds very reasonable. Then however, some of these self-same individuals get all bent out of shape when somebody tries to abridge their 2A rights, saying it isn't about the constitution, it is all about their God-given natural right . To me, it smacks of hypocrisy...then of course some fella (a learned scholar of Wikipedia and internet forums) will wade in and say "Well it's different...sorta like yelling fire in a crowded theater, abridges the right to free speech which is also considered by many to be God given natural right . But then some other fella will get his drawers in a snit when people suggest that convicted felons 2A rights be "restored"...now how the heck can any man created law or court, abridge a natural right? Now sure, I get the idea that if someone abuses their right, such as murdering someone with a firearm, they have violated that right (just like falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater) but if Joe Illegal is walking down the street, it seems to me philosophically, that he has just as much of a natural right to carry a firearm and be able to protect himself as the next fella.

I love it how we interchange natural rights with constitutional rights all the time on this forum, and hide behind one or the other when it suits our purposes. Some of you fellas are somethin' else

This I agree with. However, it shouldn't even be an issue because his ass shouldn't be here.

 

[ochmude]

This I agree with. However, it shouldn't even be an issue because his ass shouldn't be here.

I think this is the best summary of the whole argument. I think some people here feel that affirming an illegal's RKBA is tantamount to condoning that illegal's physical presence within the United States. The two are separate issues.

 

[Metalhead]

Oh I assure you, most illegals are much different from the thug breaking into your house. I understand your reaction, but most of them aren't thugs.

But they are all criminals

 

[bullseye]

We have long passed the point of making America illegal immigrant free. What we have now is a nation that talks out of both sides of their mouth, one side to please the speaker and one side to please the listener(s). What we probably need to do is start at the most local of levels and be able to accept and help those that are part of our society, being productive and gainfully employed, to become citizens. Then there are those that want a free ride and are causing problems that need to go. Us Americans are a funny breed, we bitch and moan when things we want go up in price or become legislated but when the very folks that have been part of the solution to keeping prices lower and the food items we take for granted on the store shelves are here illegally working for below minimum wage, we want to boot them because they may be taking away jobs from other citizens..
I'll tell you what, I may sound racist for this but I don't give a damn, I would rather have 10 million hard working, illegal Mexicans working here than 10 million blacks living on the government handout machine bitching how they had to get a 32 inch flat panel from the government and not a 50 inch or their free cell phone didn't come with internet.
If we boot them, then we better stop the handouts and go to forced labor to replace them because your not going to get 22 year old college grads who have no job to go pick lettuce.

 

[Fixxah]

F**k the lettuce. Deport them. Except for all of you who pay landscapers to manicure your lawn, clean the pool, and do the housekeeping, I suspect most would say GTFO and come back legally.