is it illegal to carry black talon ammo in your ccw? i know winchester stopped manufacturing it for a reason and if i got some i didnt wanna risk getting in trouble for carrying it or ever having to use it
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illegal carry ammo?
- Thread starter LORD of WAR
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Only illegal in NJ AFAIK!
There are no ammo restrictions (other than some armor piercing rds) in MA.
There are no ammo restrictions (other than some armor piercing rds) in MA.
They stopped manufacturing it under that name due to targeted publicity campains. While some prosecutor might attempt to make a deal over your choice of ammunition if you're ever required to shoot in self defense, there are no laws outlawing particular types, except for the AP, steel core and similar laws.
Ken
Ken
No, not at all -- that stuff is great!
If you believe what a police officer friend of mine once said, "The talons snap open as it leaves the muzzle, and they snap closed when it hits the bad guy!"
I didn't have the heart to inquire further.
If you believe what a police officer friend of mine once said, "The talons snap open as it leaves the muzzle, and they snap closed when it hits the bad guy!"
I didn't have the heart to inquire further.
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Cross-X said:
Ah ha!
It's really a "venus fly trap" loaded into a cartridge case!!
That explains it all!
![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
haha ok well thanx for the info guys...im gonna try and buy some more of it then and carry it without worry...would you carry it over hydrashocks???
blood hound said:
Personally I usually carry Hydra-Shoks. Mainly because they have demonstrated a 100% feed reliability in my firearms and they are the most uniformly accurate ammo I have used. To me these qualities are more important than any claimed expansion.
LenS said:Ah ha!
It's really a "venus fly trap" loaded into a cartridge case!!
That explains it all!
The saddest part is that he was totally serious.
Amazing!
Executive
NES Member
No, seriously. The Black Talon opens upon leaving the barrel and snaps closed when it hits the BG. Each round of Black Talon Ammo is treated with a special magic compound that was developed by the alchemy department at Winchester. The REAL reason why is was removed from the market is a little known section of the Federal AWB that prohibits the use of any occult or underworld mojo in the manufacturing of ammunition.
Regards,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
Executive
NES Member
Actually I know a guy who has a few rounds of "Mag-Safe" frangible ammunition. I was told it is Kevlar defeating. Should I advise my friend to remove it from his inventory?
Regards,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
Personally, I'd sell the Black Talons to someone who is all excited
by the hype and buy a whole bunch of readily available replacement
ammo to carry. What are you going to do when you run out of your
current stash of BT? You'll have to re-test a whole new load. Might
as well cash out, IMHO.
F
by the hype and buy a whole bunch of readily available replacement
ammo to carry. What are you going to do when you run out of your
current stash of BT? You'll have to re-test a whole new load. Might
as well cash out, IMHO.
F
blood hound said:
If these are going to be carried in a revolver then I would say this is acceptable. All you have to do is shoot a few of them, so you can see how accurate they are from your gun, and how they feel.
For a semi-auto however, I would recommend against this. Here is the problem. Before I will call a carry ammo reliable enough to trust my life with, I require AT LEAST, 250 rounds of that ammo to be fired through my gun. If in that 250 rounds, I have any feeding issues, or extraction issues, I will have to rethink my decision to carry that ammo. If you decide to carry Black Talon ammo, now you are looking at an extreme expense (not to mention finding it) just to get it throughly tested in your gun...
I think there are far better options out there, for much less money and headaches.
Adam
The currently produced Winchester Ranger SXT's are Black Talon bullets without the black coating on them. They function exactly the same. Here's some pics of the 165gr SXT's expanded after hitting some milk jugs filled with water. I also tried the 180gr SXT's, and everything I've read was right. They don't have adequate velocity to expand reliably (Winchester specs rate them 10fps slower than their advertised "Subsonic" ammo). The recovered 180gr bullets were not expanded at all. If it wasn't for the rifling marks, they looked as though they could have been reloaded again!
Again, you can tell your friend that it looks like this after impact ;-)
Again, you can tell your friend that it looks like this after impact ;-)
Executive
NES Member
The Ranger .40 I shoot seems to have less recoil and is a bit more accurate than the WWB I practice with. I invested in 200 rounds of the stuff at $17.95 a box to guarantee feeding reliability in my Sig 229. Now I only shoot a mag full once in a while to stay sharp. I feel more comfortable shooting the same ammunition the LEOs shoot rather than the evil sounding BTs. As long as the stuff works when I need it, and I hope I never need it, I'll be happy.
Regards,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
ChristosX said:
Defeating kevlar has no bearing on wether the ammo is legal or not.
Armor piercing pistol ammo is illegal. AP ammo either has a steel core or the jacket is more than 25%(?) the total wieght or the bullet. This means you can't use solid copper/brass bullets.
Could the MagSafe ammo be real AP ammo? Yes, but I think AP pistol ammo is illegal everywhere, so where did he get it?
I am not 100% sure on this so if someone knows better, please chime in.
blood hound said:
It's not illegal to carry it at all.... that being said, I wouldn't pay extra for
it.... as the newer win ranger offerings seem to be more availiable and less
expensive, when you can find them. And back when ammolab was open,
there was information saying the new "Ranger Talon" designs are better
than the old stuff, anyways. I have a box in my ammo storage just
for nostalgic purpouses......
I don't think I'll ever shoot it, though.-Mike
FunYun said:
This isn't true.... the Barnes Hex Bullet is just about all copper, and its definitely legal. Taurus was selling it for awhile, and now Corbon is doing it with +P, etc..... (as the "DPX"). Course, they may have recieved
variances from the ATF to make those bullets, etc..... if thats the way the
fed reg really reads. There are numerous exceptions (for whatever
reason) as it stands now anyways.... for instance, even though M855 ball
is widely considered AP, the ATF allows it to be sold.
-Mike
M855 Ball is not true Armor Piercing (but meets BATFE criteria for AP). It is also specifically exempted, along with SS109 (and .30 M2 AP, which is ROFLE ammo). The exemption itself should speak volumes.
Be very careful, since 7.62 NATO AP is NOT exempted. And, as I remember it, 308 Win IS a pistol caliber.
Also 7.62x39 ammo cannot have steel inserts. That cut out a LOT of Chinese ammo, and made a bunch of FFL's into criminals overnight.
I'd bet most folks don't know 308 Win, 223 Rem/5.56, 7.62x39 and 30-30 are all pistol cartridges per BATFE.
Be very careful, since 7.62 NATO AP is NOT exempted. And, as I remember it, 308 Win IS a pistol caliber.
Also 7.62x39 ammo cannot have steel inserts. That cut out a LOT of Chinese ammo, and made a bunch of FFL's into criminals overnight.
I'd bet most folks don't know 308 Win, 223 Rem/5.56, 7.62x39 and 30-30 are all pistol cartridges per BATFE.