Ike, Bradley, Churchill and Brooks

30Mauser

30Mauser

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This seemed the best venue for these pictures of my great-grandfather (Edward H. Brooks, I called him "Daddy-Pop"), with Ike and Bradley, reviewing battle plans and giving Churchill a tour of troop readiness during WW2. It is because of these pictures and this man (for whom I was named) that I favor the M1 Carbine and 1911. Hope this is an appropriate post for this forum!

In this album there are 5 collages we scanned in from family photos. Ted Brooks is the 2-star with the long-ish face and field cap on during most of the Churchill photos. He is bare-headed and wearing a helmet (6th Corps CG at the time) with netting in the war-room photos:
http://photobucket.com/ehbrooks

Churchill_Shoot02.jpg
 
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These are awesome, brings history to life!!! Here's to your great grandfather!!! [cheers]

Post more if you have them, they are some great pictures!! [thumbsup]
 
Fantastic pictures. Thank you for posting. Any chance someday you could post a scan of just the picture of Ike and Churchill with the M1 carbines? I would love to get a better look at that picture. That looks like a great shot.
 
NinerMaine said:
Fantastic pictures. Thank you for posting. Any chance someday you could post a scan of just the picture of Ike and Churchill with the M1 carbines? I would love to get a better look at that picture. That looks like a great shot.
Click to expand...
^Yeah, what he said; and maybe the picture where Ike is reloading too. Do you own the rights to to these photos?

Way off topic, but I always wondered what happened to the C96 Churchill owned and carried at Omdurman. If that thing still existed, it would be worth a fortune. But he probably had it confiscated by the Boers when they captured him. So, it's likely lost forever... And while I'm ranting, I wonder what Churchill would make of Britain's current sorry state and gun ban?
 
SSW1911 said:
Post more if you have them, they are some great pictures!! [thumbsup]
Click to expand...
Just posted this one to the same folder. My mom has our "original", but found out when having it vetted for auction that it was actually a COPY of the original with all the signatures... we don't know where the original ended up... auction house said it would probably have been worth quite a bit!! [frown]

Churchill_Signed.jpg


NinerMaine said:
Any chance someday you could post a scan of just the picture of Ike and Churchill with the M1 carbines? I would love to get a better look at that picture. That looks like a great shot.
Click to expand...
Do you mean the one where Ike is reloading or the one that hminsky posted of them all aiming/firing? Here's the one that hminsky posted... I've grabbed it from the CMP website and posted it in my Photobucket album. If you meant the one of Ike reloading, see below...

Churchill_Shoot02.jpg


BerkshireHunter said:
...and maybe the picture where Ike is reloading too. Do you own the rights to to these photos?
Click to expand...

The pictures were all taken by official US Army photographers and are therefore legally in the public domain. Here's the one with Ike reloading. Would make a cool t-shirt with the caption "Keep honking, Ike is reloading"??? [wink]

BTW, anyone else notice that Ike is only wearing 4 stars in these pictures??

Churchill_Shoot01.jpg
 
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More on trying to date this event... I believe that it took place shortly before Operation Overlord (AKA Normandy invasion), but it's possible it was earlier. I do note that Ike got his fifth star on December 20, 1944 (per Wikipedia: "As recognition of his senior position in the Allied command, on December 20, 1944, he was promoted to General of the Army, equivalent to the rank of Field Marshal in most European armies."), so the photos were taken some time before this.

I also know that Daddy-Pop was appointed VI Corps commander in October 1944, so the war room photos (unrelated to the Churchill photos) must have been taken some time after then, but (obviously) before the end of the war in May 1945.

Damn I love this stuff!!
 
I love that picture, thank you for posting it by itself. Besides the historical value of that shot, I love the fact that Churchill was a gun guy. How many pictures of him have we seen with guns during WWII. I bet the three of them just were shooting those carbines for fun...... just like we do.
 
New question about the second photo, the one where Ike is reloading. The person furthest to the right, behind the general shooting, is that who I think it is? His face is covered, but he is wearing a steel helmet and is also wearing riding pants and boots and has a riding crop. I can only think of one American general who would wear that in WWII. Any chance that is Patton?
 
NinerMaine said:
New question about the second photo, the one where Ike is reloading. The person furthest to the right, behind the general shooting, is that who I think it is? His face is covered, but he is wearing a steel helmet and is also wearing riding pants and boots and has a riding crop. I can only think of one American general who would wear that in WWII. Any chance that is Patton?
Click to expand...
I see who you mean, behind Bradley's left arm.

I'm pretty sure it's not Patton for two reasons. 1) If this was during the run-up to Operation Overlord as I suspect, Ike had assigned Patton to the 3rd Army to deceive the Germans with Operation Quicksilver.
http://www.generalpatton.org/D-Day/Patton_Dday.htm

2) Patton wasn't in any of the pictures mingling with the VIPs, which I would expect him to be given his rank, fame and arrogance (my grandmother told me some stories LOL) at the time.
 
30Mauser said:
I see who you mean, behind Bradley's left arm.

I'm pretty sure it's not Patton for two reasons. 1) If this was during the run-up to Operation Overlord as I suspect, Ike had assigned Patton to the 3rd Army to deceive the Germans with Operation Quicksilver.
http://www.generalpatton.org/D-Day/Patton_Dday.htm

2) Patton wasn't in any of the pictures mingling with the VIPs, which I would expect him to be given his rank, fame and arrogance (my grandmother told me some stories LOL) at the time.
Click to expand...

No way to know for sure with just the pictures we have on hand on this thread. But I want to think it is Patton. It would make sense to have him present at what looks to be a widely attended and semi-public event. Having him there would help with the cover story for Operation Quicksilver. As far as him not being in any pictures with Ike that could be because at this point Ike was still pissed at him and most likely still had him in Coventry (figuratively, not literally). Maybe Patton understood he needed to be there, but knew better than to show off and try and pal around with Ike. But who knows...

I do notice that there is one other person in the background wearing riding pants and boots. Perhaps this is more common than I think?
 
NinerMaine said:
Having him there would help with the cover story for Operation Quicksilver.
Click to expand...

Without further cross-referencing the date of this event with historical documentation about where Patton was then, what you say could be true, except (IMHO) the speculation above. Remember that everyone else in that photo (that we recognize: Brooks, Bradley, Hinds, Ike) were directly involved in the planning and execution of Overlord. Having "superstar" Patton there would have drawn unwanted attention to them, I expect. All I've read indicates that they kept Patton down with the 3rd Army trying to look busy readying the fake invasion.

NinerMaine said:
I do notice that there is one other person in the background wearing riding pants and boots. Perhaps this is more common than I think?
Click to expand...
From the many other pictures I've seen, they weren't all that unusual. Many of the senior officers carried "swagger sticks", so a riding crop isn't too far off the mark for that. My great-grandfather was CG of the 2nd Armored Division during the invasion and breakout into Belgium, and his gaitors and such are typical of Armor commanders... not so sure about the riding gear, but could have been typical of old Cavalry commanders??

I'll have access to the pictures again when we open the summer house up in NH. Many of those old Army pictures have a full narrative typed on the back, including the date and photographer's name. My cousin scanned a lot of these over last summer, and I had done a number some years ago... so we're not entirely sure whether there was writing on the backs, or if they were "copies of copies"... keep in mind there are huge baskets full of pictures we still have to go through... I already found some with Brooks and FM Montgomery, Charles Degaulle, Sec'y of War Stimpson, the Palmer brothers (Williston and Charlie), George Marshall, Cary Grant, etc etc... who knows what treasures there are!?
 
Good points. Since Patton was not the only dressing like that, it could be any body. Since this is a milsurp board, I have to ask:

Who ended up with your Grandfather's 1911?
 
NinerMaine said:
Good points. Since Patton was not the only dressing like that, it could be any body. Since this is a milsurp board, I have to ask:

Who ended up with your Grandfather's 1911?
Click to expand...
Don't know what happened to my great-grandfather's (who retired as a 3-star in 1953, after 36 years of service)... and I've asked everyone about my grandfather's that he taught me with, but NOBODY KNOWS!!! :-(

One uncle thinks it was stolen during a burglary in the 80's, my cousin thought that another uncle got it, but that uncle says that he only got the .32 auto.

I know that within 24 hours of his sudden death in 1997, I had flown back from Germany and was tasked with going around the house and tearfully making all the weapons "safe". I found an amazing variety of firearms (most of which were eventually sold off or passed down to others in the family at the time), but that old Colt was nowhere to be found... believe me, I looked.

It was only this past summer that I found the old holster with the magazine in it (and six rounds) in the attic. I don't know whose it originally was (given that the family had four officers who might have had it in any of four wars in the 20th century) but it's home with me now. Damn I wish I knew where that gun went.
 
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FYI, I've revamped the entire photobucket folder, breaking out all the collages into LARGE, individual pictures. Also renamed all the pictures and added brief descriptions. I went through this thread and re-did all the photo links so they should still work.

Here's the simplified link to it: http://photobucket.com/ehbrooks

Most interesting thing relevant to MILSURP I think is this photo... anyone know what the revolver is?
Churchill_Weapons_Display06.jpg
 
30Mauser said:
FYI, I've revamped the entire photobucket folder, breaking out all the collages into LARGE, individual pictures. Also renamed all the pictures and added brief descriptions. I went through this thread and re-did all the photo links so they should still work.

Here's the simplified link to it: http://photobucket.com/ehbrooks

Most interesting thing relevant to MILSURP I think is this photo... anyone know what the revolver is?
Churchill_Weapons_Display06.jpg
Click to expand...
Is that Churchill's bodyguard in the background?

Edit- Looks like it. Walter Thompson.
portal-graphics-20_1158807a.jpg

Sorry to hijack the pic. Revolver looks like a Smith, victory model perhaps?
 
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Cool on the body guard. I believe the victory only came in 38 special. The sign on the table says "Pistol Cal. 45". The rounds near the revolver are also standing up in a circle in what look like a moon clip. So, it looks like it could also be a M1917 in 45 ACP.

For sure it is not an Enfield No. 2 as it has a round barrel.

I have really enjoyed looking at this pictures. Thanks again for posting. If and when you get more scanned I hope you can post those as well.
 
Thanks again, Niner. Will see what I can find. There are lots of signed headshots of famous people, but for the purpose of this forum I'll try to keep it weapon-related.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure the "Pistol .45 cal" refers to the 1911 lying there... I think the revolver is unlabeled.
 
Great photos. I really wish I could get a copy of a photo a reseller of mine has. In the picture he is standing with a buddy and another man in Vietnam. On his helmet there are 6 stars painted across the front. Thing is, the a third man is standing talking to them
is General Westmoreland. He tells me it was an "interesting" chat.
 
30Mauser said:
Without further cross-referencing the date of this event with historical documentation about where Patton was then, what you say could be true, except (IMHO) the speculation above. Remember that everyone else in that photo (that we recognize: Brooks, Bradley, Hinds, Ike) were directly involved in the planning and execution of Overlord. Having "superstar" Patton there would have drawn unwanted attention to them, I expect. All I've read indicates that they kept Patton down with the 3rd Army trying to look busy readying the fake invasion.


From the many other pictures I've seen, they weren't all that unusual. Many of the senior officers carried "swagger sticks", so a riding crop isn't too far off the mark for that. My great-grandfather was CG of the 2nd Armored Division during the invasion and breakout into Belgium, and his gaitors and such are typical of Armor commanders... not so sure about the riding gear, but could have been typical of old Cavalry commanders??

I'll have access to the pictures again when we open the summer house up in NH. Many of those old Army pictures have a full narrative typed on the back, including the date and photographer's name. My cousin scanned a lot of these over last summer, and I had done a number some years ago... so we're not entirely sure whether there was writing on the backs, or if they were "copies of copies"... keep in mind there are huge baskets full of pictures we still have to go through... I already found some with Brooks and FM Montgomery, Charles Degaulle, Sec'y of War Stimpson, the Palmer brothers (Williston and Charlie), George Marshall, Cary Grant, etc etc... who knows what treasures there are!?
Click to expand...


30Mauser, your pictures brought back some memories. My wife's father served in WWII and served with Patton is some manner. Her father was a field Medic assigned to a frontline unit (Tech 3?? Does that make sense, I am not familiar with this title) during the war. Anyways one of her first memories of hearing a swear come from her father's mouth was recounting Patton's personality!!!

Thanks for the good laugh our family shared remembering her father while looking at your photos!!!
 

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