"If you see something, say something!"

[Jay6]

Everyone talks about it not being a good idea to point anything at a cop, ever. It seems every time I hear a story where a LEO shoots an unarmed person there's a LEO in a fancy uniform talking about how civilians need to act a certain way around police officers so they don't get shot. Sorry, kids, the burden of training is on the guy in the uniform. I respect their role and its risks and difficulties but anyone who thinks the drunk guy with the water nozzle was to blame is just wrong. Nothing in print suggests he was ordered to do anything (or even aware of the LEO's presence) which means there's nothing to suggest he denied an officer's commands. The LEOs panicked and that panic left an innocent man dead. Own the mistake and figure out how and never gets made again by finding the root cause and fixing it.

All very good points most of which I agree with. I want to be clear that I am not placing blame on the man who was shot. I am just not placing blame with the police either.

There is also a flip side to this coin where I beleive there are a number of instances where officers were not able to go home to their families due to inactivity or waiting TOO long act to a threat (reference Deputy Kyle Dinkeller's tragic incident).

 

[TWtommers]

All very good points most of which I agree with. I want to be clear that I am not placing blame on the man who was shot. I am just not placing blame with the police either.

There is also a flip side to this coin where I beleive there are a number of instances where officers were not able to go home to their families due to inactivity or waiting TOO long act to a threat (reference Deputy Kyle Dinkeller's tragic incident).

Somebody has to be to blame, chief, and in this case it seems like the guys doing the shooting since there's no evidence that the dead guy broke a single law.

I completely understand that in an incident like this an officer arrives in a body alarm state ready for action. They're amped up and on guard. Stuff can go down fast and perceptions can be very skewed. Trust me, I understand all of that. While I do hold those LEO's responsible (their actions, you have to), I don't necessarily think they are to blame in the sense that they likely responded as trained (or not trained). To me, the onus is on the police departments to better train their LEOs to respond to events like this in a way that keeps all innocent parties safe.

 

[vellnueve]

Everyone talks about it not being a good idea to point anything at a cop, ever. It seems every time I hear a story where a LEO shoots an unarmed person there's a LEO in a fancy uniform talking about how civilians need to act a certain way around police officers so they don't get shot. Sorry, kids, the burden of training is on the guy in the uniform. I respect their role and its risks and difficulties but anyone who thinks the drunk guy with the water nozzle was to blame is just wrong. Nothing in print suggests he was ordered to do anything (or even aware of the LEO's presence) which means there's nothing to suggest he denied an officer's commands. The LEOs panicked and that panic left an innocent man dead. Own the mistake and figure out how and never gets made again by finding the root cause and fixing it.

The fact is that even if the cop makes an egregious error in target ID, like in this case, it still remains a stupid idea to point anything in the first place.

Where do you draw the line? Hose? Flaregun? Airsoft?

 

[cekim]

The fact is that even if the cop makes an egregious error in target ID, like in this case, it still remains a stupid idea to point anything in the first place.

Where do you draw the line? Hose? Flaregun? Airsoft?

Obviously, we should draw the line at the mere occurrence of a violent thought or imagining the use of a weapon. As we see in public schools, the mere sketch of a gun can be a threat...

 

[Bfatz]

Obviously, we should draw the line at the mere occurrence of a violent thought or imagining the use of a weapon. As we see in public schools, the mere sketch of a gun can be a threat...

Yes, as one can clearly see this is deadly.

 

[cekim]

Yes, as one can clearly see this is deadly.

Bfatz, clearly that ruler is a threat - in the future all rulers will have to be digital and internet connected to ensure that factual measurements can be adjusted by the FED as needed to ensure they have adequate tools to stimulate the economy...

Anything that just tells you a length, width, depth, mass, cost, trend, etc... without government adjustment, interpretation or censorship is a clear and present danger...

Vellneueve, agreed, pointing things at cops is a good way to get shot, but I have some questions about the scenario/timeline here that make me go...

p.s. Don't take that to Austrailia, or you'll have to FA-10 it into the toy-gun registry...

 

[red87930]

The fact is that even if the cop makes an egregious error in target ID, like in this case, it still remains a stupid idea to point anything in the first place.

Where do you draw the line? Hose? Flaregun? Airsoft?

Not to continue to beat a dead horse but this guy did not know they were there. He was not pointing anything at them. THey were hiding in a position that placed them in front of what ever he was doing with the nozzle. I can't beleive I even keep coming back to this thread, my head is about to explode. This is my last post I promise. And no I am not anti LE just anti stupidity and these guys were idiots. You or I would be sitting in a small space for a long time if we acted as indiscriminately.

 

[xtry51]

Bottom line:

If one of us did this, we'd be in jail for manslaughter within a month. Since cops did it, they'll probably not even lose a paycheck. They should be in jail for what they did, period, but we all know that won't happen.

 

[n1oty]

Your point would be well taken, assuming this guy knew the police were in the area and concerned with him. I have yet to find any reports on this incident where this guy was even aware of the officers, though.

The fact is that even if the cop makes an egregious error in target ID, like in this case, it still remains a stupid idea to point anything in the first place.

Where do you draw the line? Hose? Flaregun? Airsoft?