IDPA vs USPSA. Have you tried both? Which do you enjoy more?

[AppleSeeds]

Title pretty much says it all, for those that have tried one or both what's your impression. Do you prefer one over the other or do you see them as 2 different things?

 

[wmccurdy53]

USPSA because each shooter may shoot the course of fire any way they see fit. I also enjoy high round count scenarios.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

Yes I have tried both. They are both enjoyable as are skeet, trap, sporting clays, Pins, plates, rifle etc.
They are a little different (one being an offshoot of the other) and people have their preferences. Try them both and as many other types of shooting as you can.

Michael. All shooting is good shooting.

 

[jar]

They're more alike than they are different. I shoot both. Here's the short summary:

IDPA
limited to relatively stock guns, no comps or optics
requires drawing from concealment
stages limited to 18 rounds
has more limitations on how you shoot the course of fire, requiring use of cover and sometimes mandating engagement order
you get classified by shooting one specific 90 round classification course
often has low / no light stages
uses easy to understand 'time plus' scoring system which has a bias toward accuracy

USPSA
has divisions limited to stock guns, but also has divisions for fancy race guns
shot from open carry, with fancy race holsters in open and limited divisions
stages up to 32 rounds
stages are more 'freestyle' - the most common stage description is 'engage targets as and when visible from the free fire zone'
each match contains a classifier stage taken from a book of about 70, your initial class is based on the best 4 of your first 6, after than best 6 of most recent 8.
uses more compex 'hit-factor' scoring, where speed vs accuracy depends on the stage

IDPA is a little easier for newbies because most stages tell you what to do and aren't as long. Also, you only need 3 mags and 2 carriers. For USPSA production you're going to want at least 6 mags with at least 4 on the belt. Ignore anyone who says their preferred sport is the only one that's good. Also ignore anyone who says IDPA is defensive training. If you keep score, it's a game, plain and simple.

 

[Supermoto]

They're more alike than they are different. I shoot both. Here's the short summary:

Ignore anyone who says their preferred sport is the only one that's good. .

USPSA is the only good one

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

That's a really "good compare and contrast" of the two sports. I'm admittedly biased and I'll layout why I like USPSA:

• I like to pull the trigger - a lot. 32 vs 18 rounds makes a big difference. I like short, fast stages as much as anyone, and they're great tests of a shooters technique and mental game. But the long, complex stages tell you a lot more about a shooter.
• I don't see how concealment and cover add to the competitive experience. Sure, they are supposed to approximate 'real world', but I don't see the competitive purpose.
• Freestyle - forcing the competitor to figure out HOW to shoot the course of fire is huge in the competitive calculus as you're giving each shooter the opportunity to think they can outsmart each other. There's nothing like watching someone carefully plan how they're going to shoot a stage and then change it when they step in the box because someone had a better plan. Usually their new plan goes to crap. It's fun to watch.
• If you're an engineer or enjoy tinkering, USPSA Limited and Open divisions can consume even more of your free time and disposable income. You'll never get tired of tinkering with guns, gun parts, ammo, optics, and compensators. (But Production Division is still bare knuckles, mano-a-mano shooting.

 

[jkelly]

I like them both but I shoot IDPA more. There are really good people in both (see all five people above, yes even Supermoto).

Respectfully,
jkelly

 

[Supermoto]

I like them both but I shoot IDPA more. There are really good people in both (see all five people above, yes even Supermoto).

Respectfully,
jkelly

Thanks John

Repectfully
Superego

 

[Lugnut]

They are both action shooting with handguns. They each emphasize certain skills. You really, really just need to try one or the other or both and make that call for yourself. Some of the best people I've met are from both these sports, that's something that can't be overlooked. Even Superego is a decent guy once you get used to him.

Wouldn't it be ashame if you never tried strawberry ice cream because someone told you vanilla bean was the best?

 

[Scrivener]

USPSA is The Source.

IDPA and CASS are spin-offs created by the disaffected.

Which is NOT to say that each is not fun, requires skill and provides the always-good Trigger Time.

 

[Dan S]

I shoot USPSA, and have no major interest in IDPA. I like the different divisions in USPSA, with the allowed tinkering on the firearms. I shoot Limited, Single Stack, and now Production. I shot Open, when there was no Open, it was just "Run What You Brung" I like Freestyle shooting, don't care for some of the rules in IDPA, and some of the subjective rulings, such as use of cover. Give me a fault line, not an R.O. at a bad angle that gives a penalty.
Scoring is scoring.....I don't do the scores, so, it's not a problem. And USPSA's scoring isn't that difficult to figure out, it's just basic math.
As has been said, try them both....you'll choose USPSA.

 

[BrianWilson]

Its all good.USPSA- might be more fun to shoot in my opinion,especially if you like hot rod stuff,and the figuring out your strategy is a big part of the challenge,but I have good fun shooting an IDPA match and it can be a heck of alot easier to set up and tear down. Tell you the truth? Im starting to like Steel Challenge more and more...

 

[IPSC_DRL]

If you are interested in learning how to get involved, several clubs host "practice" sessions where you can become familiar with the basic rules and safety procedures. (which are VERY similar) Harvard and Hopkinton both have weekly practices on Wednesday evenings.
The USPSA Northeast area director Rob Boudrie hosts an "introduction to USPSA shooting" class each spring. We will have a table at the Marlboro gun show advertising it and taking sign-ups. This class takes place at the Hopkinton club over a weekend and will give you all of the skills needed to go to your first local match with confidence.

Check it out.

 

[MFP4073]

I have also shot both and prefer USPSA. I really just like the higher round count, variety of equipment options, freestyle (most of the time) shoot em' as you see em' approach, and all around "runnin an' gunnin." As Dan mentioned previously, I never liked the subjective penality aspect that I experienced in IDPA. Fault lines and simple stage procedures of USPSA make a very level playing field for competitors in each division. Also, I never really dug the hokey "your laying in your bedroom, with your daughter in her room down the hall, when you hear a bump in the night..." scenarios that sometimes are in the stage descriptions of IDPA. Just tell me what I need to shoot and let me at it!

Shoot both and decide which you like better. Hell, you may even decide you like both equally. If that is the case your options for shooting matches each week increases greatly! Just ask Lugnut...

 

[AppleSeeds]

Thanks very much for all the opinions. I went and watched some IDPA the other day, I hope to get out and watch some USPSA as well so I can see how it works.

 

[Pyano]

I shoot both using the same equipment. I started with USPSA and tried IDPA when MWT came to Harvard. My preference is USPSA Production but l've never been to an IDPA match where I didn't have a good time. Low light stages are fun and only done in IDPA. On the other hand, it's a challenge to shoot freestyle.

In terms of numbers of people shooting, USPSA draws larger numbers so it is, in my opinion, much more competitive.

With a little pre-planning you can equip yourself to shoot both and Steel Challenge. No matter what you decide, you're going to have a good time.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

We have not yet set the date for the USPSA class at Hopkinton, but it will probably be March 20-21 (I have to confirm the date with the club). The price will be around $80 and include lunch on both days.

 

[Lugnut]

Shoot both and decide which you like better. Hell, you may even decide you like both equally. If that is the case your options for shooting matches each week increases greatly! Just ask Lugnut...

Yep- if you have a family or work obligations and you can only fit a match in when your schedule permits- it's great to have so many options! Also- some local USPSA matches are 4 stages, some are up to 6, some IDPA matches are 4-6 as well.... so consider total round count as well when comparing the two.

We are VERY fortunate to have so many clubs in this area that are very active. The camaraderie is a bonus to the matches.

 

[Mike-Mike]

The camaraderie is a bonus to the matches.

Group hug?

 

[Lugnut]

Group hug?

Maybe.. depends if you are wearing your speedo next match!

 

[IPSC_DRL]

The folks who participate in these matches tend to be overwhelmingly helpful to new participants.

You can also use your "carry" gear in USPSA and run the courses in a "tactical" order if you wish.

 

[Chris]

If you haven't, take the USPSA class with Rob and Mike. It's a lot of fun and you will learn a new sport.

Personally, I like both. I also dislike some aspects of both. If you are a fairly new shooter, IDPA will be easier to jump in and have fun I think. However, I've shot with Rob's group early on and never had any issues getting into the game cold. The real key will be walking in with an open mind and not expect anything - just try your best.

IDPA CAN get you more familiar with your carry gear. But then again, you can use it in USPSA too. I wouldn't call either game 'training', more like handling practice at most. You can use the game to find gear positions that work, techniques to use, etc.

In traveling for various IDPA shoots, I've seen a lot of very staged scenarios where almost no thought is required on the shooter's part. I don't have as much experience with USPSA to make any such observations. But it was one of the elements of the 'game' that I've always felt was missing. You can see it in the staging area as shooters mentally shoot the stage over and over in preparation for their run. I've always found it much more challenging if the shooting is fairly easy, but the mental game is harder. Watching a high ranked shooter plug a no-shoot because they didn't think or react to a situation correctly is very telling. Generally, it isn't the fastest gun that wins these kind of stages, but the better skilled shooter.

When I was running my program, I tried very hard to develop stages where shooters faced a problem and had to come up with their own solutions on the clock. It's not easy. You have to hide things and keep secrets which is exceptionally hard to do. Or develop some method of randomness without altering the overall progress. I've always thanked clubs and Match Directors who manage to create such stages because they are rare and very tough to do.

One recommendation:

If you ever travel to the Orlando area of Florida, bring your guns. You can have IDPA and USPSA fun at top notch clubs every Saturday and Sunday. There are 4 or 5 in an hours drive that rotate matches and it just seems that each is always trying to outdo the others. You'll find whole towns built in the pits, random doors that can open, etc. Their regular club matches would be on par with some of the state matches elsewhere. I remember shooting one Easter Sunday and the Match Director apologized to me that it was going to be a 'small' match because of the holiday. I just laughed at that because I knew the club. Sure enough it was an incredible outing.

Such great matches can happen here too. All it takes is to get involved. Those clubs have 20+ man teams that set up regular club matches. Around here it is usually just a few people who set up and some volunteers to help run it.

 

[Scrivener]

I have also shot both and prefer USPSA.Shoot both and decide which you like better. Hell, you may even decide you like both equally. If that is the case your options for shooting matches each week increases greatly! Just ask Lugnut...

When you come to a USPSA match, you can leave your shoot-me-first "tactical" vest home. We don't have a dress code.

 

[Lugnut]

When you come to a USPSA match, you can leave your shoot-me-first "tactical" vest home. We don't have a dress code.

A jacket will do you good in this weather!! Don't knock it.

 

[eisenhow]

When you come to a USPSA match, you can leave your shoot-me-first "tactical" vest home. We don't have a dress code.

I thought you had to wear a logo covered cycling style jersey to shoot USPSA?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I tried very hard to develop stages where shooters faced a problem and had to come up with their own solutions on the clock. It's not easy. You have to hide things and keep secrets which is exceptionally hard to do.

There are techniques that allow people to come up with their own solution that do not involve randomness or secrets. Some examples:

- A freestyle course in which the shooter is told to "solve the problem" but not where to shoot from. You can set up a stage where, for example, a shooter may engage all targets from 2 positions or 3 positions - but engagement from only 2 positions involves a longer shot; shots at a target partially obscured by hard cover or a no-shoot when shot from 2 positions but fully visible if the shooter uses a third position, or perhaps allow the shooter to save some movement if he is confident enough to engage that mini-popper positioned right in front of a no-shoot unless the shooter goes to an extra position which allows engagement without the noshoot directly behind the popper.

- Use movers creatively. Consider a popper that causes a target to be temporarily exposed and them mostly covered by a noshoot, and which has several exposed targets nearby. The shooter has a couple of choices:

a. Do I attempt to engage the pop up target while it is fully exposed before the no-shoot exposes all but a small part of the target, or make the tight shot after the movement has ceased?

b. When I shoot the steel, do I use the time while the moving target pops up to go engage other targets or do I have the gun pointed and waiting for the popup?

Done properly, such choices will not be "obvious" and you'll see all sorts of different choices. A stage at the recent BUAS match in Boston provided 5 shooting positions (3 ports, around the left wall and around the right wall). I saw people engage in using anywhere from 1 to 4 of the shooting positions - and even the top shooters did not all use the same strategy.

 

[Underwhere]

When I was running my program, I tried very hard to develop stages where shooters faced a problem and had to come up with their own solutions on the clock. It's not easy. You have to hide things and keep secrets which is exceptionally hard to do. Or develop some method of randomness without altering the overall progress. I've always thanked clubs and Match Directors who manage to create such stages because they are rare and very tough to do.

The IDPA guys up in Pelham, NH do some cool things.

In one pit they led you in blindfolded and set up barrels 2 high so that you could not see the stage. The SO was behind you and you had to engage targets as they presented to you, and they were very vocal about calling you for cover. It was a slow but very meaningful stage.

They also had a stage where shooting a popper revealed a certain color paper (red or green) and from then on, the shooter had to engage only the exposed colors. A hit on the opposite cover was considered a no-shoot.

I think I might have video of this somewhere.

*Edit* here's the video. It's probably one of the worst IDPA showings I've had so please refrain from constructive criticism. I'm going to write that day off as a complete loss.
The stage with the colors is stage 3 (About 2:25 seconds into the video). In the box...I believe it was the color you were to shoot at (also to determine whether you were colorblind)
The popper pulled off cardboard which exposed the proper target.

 

[Supermoto]

I thought you had to wear a logo covered cycling style jersey to shoot USPSA?

Those shirts win you prizes.

 

[GTOShootr]

I've done both. I've had fun at both. However, I found IDPA to have more subjectivity in the SOing. IDPA scoring is simpler and quicker to grasp yet I feel like I can read more out of a USPSA hit factor score sheet. There's more data there. Time plus vs Hit factor shooting is just plain different for the average shooter.

Something I've observed, you walk away from a USPSA match and you talk about the shooting. You walk away from an IDPA match and you talk about the rules.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

We don't have a dress code.

Acutally, we do, in rule 5.3. It's intended to give the match director the ability to deal with people who show up with offensive garb like stuff with racist slogans; the urban commando look and the grossly overweight wearing spandex. (Well, maybe not the last part). I've never seen a situation where this rule needed to be invoked.

5.3 Appropriate Dress
5.3.1 The use of offensive or objectionable garments is not allowed. The Match Director will have final authority in respect of what garments competitors are allowed to wear.

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If you're an engineer or enjoy tinkering, USPSA Limited and Open divisions can consume even more of your free time and disposable income.

If you really enjoy tinkering, you can have loads of fun inventing new match props.