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Identifying military crimp

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Hi;

I have some brass that I de-primed. I see a ring-like thing around the primer pocket hole but could not be sure it is a recess or a crimp. I even used my magnifying glass. Most of my brass are like these. The inner diameter of the primer pocket hole is around 0.16" with the ring-like thing. The headed stamp is "FC 223 REM"

Is there such a thing called recess or it is military crimp?

Thanks
 
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I measured the inner diameter of the primer pocket hole of some brass without the ring and the diameter is the same as ones with rings (0.16"). So if the ring is removed, then the hole may be bigger than the primers.
 
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They're Federal Cartridge cases, and yes, it's crimped (they also use a primer sealant).

You'll need a swager to resize the primer pocket...

Dillon Precision: Reloaders, Reloading Equipment, Bullet Reloading, Bullet Reloaders

There are reloading die type swaggers (installs on your reloading press), but, I haven't had any experience with one.

The Dillion unit works great, but at $100.00, it only pays off if you have an ass load of brass.
 

Fixxah

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Maybe so but when the primer catches the crimp it slows things down in a hurry. Ream it out with a Weldon bit on a drill press if you have one. Takes only a second to do. I have a couple thousand crimped military cases in 45auto to ream but still have a few thousand that don't need anything in that regard. Will take a while to shoot out what I have loaded anyway.

I believe the primer expands slightly when seated fully. FC isn't great brass as the primer pockets will loosen after a few loadings.

-Proud to be dad every day, a licensed plumber most days, and wish I was a shoemaker on others.
 
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FC .223 brass is known to be thin in the web and doesn't lend itself to reloading well....YMMV

FC 5.56 (which is Lake City) is VERY good brass for reloading. I wouldn't bother swaging or reaming FC .223 brass, but that's just me.
 
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Does the crimp ring go all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket? When you take out a crimp, does the crimp come off as a ring (one piece) or the crimp needs to be shaved off (by a swagger tool)?
 
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I just got an RCBS primer pocket swager combo 2 for these. I've only done around 60 or so mixed LC and FC brass, swaging the primer pockets then repriming but it worked very well for me. It mounts on a press and was $35 well spent.

ETA - the swager pushes the primer pocket back into the right size.
 
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xtry51

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I've switched from the RCBS swager to a drill and chamfer bit to remove crimp. Way faster especially when doing mixed brass runs of plinking ammo.
 

marvelshooter

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Does the crimp ring go all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket? When you take out a crimp, does the crimp come off as a ring (one piece) or the crimp needs to be shaved off (by a swagger tool)?
The crimp is not all the way to the bottom. Once you have deprimed you are left with a primer pocket that has a sharp corner. The primer also has a sharp corner and unless it is exactly lined up it will not go in. As a couple others have said I use a countersink (60 degree) to lightly chamfer the primer pocket. The crimp comes off as a few fine shavings.
 
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Thanks for all the help so far. But I still need some help in understanding how the crimp come off the brass. Today I went to a hardware store and bought a 1/2" countersink bit as suggested by some people. I installed it on the drill and started working on about 2 dozens of brass. It appears to me that it is shaving off the brass of the ring. There is no single case where a ring is removed (popped) off the brass. Based on the comments that I got so far, I though the ring will come off the brass as a piece. Is this not the case? I didn't finish all my 200 brass because I am afraid something I was doing it incorrectly. I am almost there, but....

I appreciated any help from the forum, thanks...
 

marvelshooter

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The crimp is not something that is added to the case and will "pop" off. It is metal that is already part of the existing case that is displaced with a special tool to hold the primer tighter in place. It is mostly found on military brass. The Army doesn't give two shits that it makes reloading harder, they only care that it holds the original primer tighter. When carefully removed with a countersink all that will be produced are some fine shavings - no intact ring. Go slowly turning the countersink by hand until you see a very slight bevel and then try and seat a new primer. If it goes in without a lot of pressure you are done. When you get the hang of what is required put the countersink in a variable speed drill and go slow. I use a Lee hand primer for everything because it give a much better feel than using a press. Good luck.
 
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The crimp is not something that is added to the case and will "pop" off. It is metal that is already part of the existing case that is displaced with a special tool to hold the primer tighter in place. It is mostly found on military brass. The Army doesn't give two shits that it makes reloading harder, they only care that it holds the original primer tighter. When carefully removed with a countersink all that will be produced are some fine shavings - no intact ring. Go slowly turning the countersink by hand until you see a very slight bevel and then try and seat a new primer. If it goes in without a lot of pressure you are done. When you get the hang of what is required put the countersink in a variable speed drill and go slow. I use a Lee hand primer for everything because it give a much better feel than using a press. Good luck.

What he said. ^^^

If you have some commercial non-crimped brass to compare against (the Remington .223, marked "R P", is a good example), that nice smooth entry into the primer pocket is what you are trying to accomplish. Simply take out about 1/32" deep, 1/32" wide with a countersink to ease the transition into the primer pocket. The crimping squares up the entry into the pocket, and you just need to relieve it a bit so that the new primers can get started into the pocket without hanging up.

If you take just a little and attempt to insert a primer, then repeat a few times, you'll figure it out pretty quick. Take as little brass away as you can, but enough so that the primers don't hang up when you try to insert them.

If I can get some good pictures I'll post a few shortly. Looked online and found a few out-of-focus ones but nothing super instructive.
 

cekim

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I've switched from the RCBS swager to a drill and chamfer bit to remove crimp. Way faster especially when doing mixed brass runs of plinking ammo.
Fast, but if your loads are anything close to full power, you have to be careful or you will take too much and end up with lots of primers blowing out and gumming up your gun.
 
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The crimp is not something that is added to the case and will "pop" off. It is metal that is already part of the existing case that is displaced with a special tool to hold the primer tighter in place. It is mostly found on military brass. The Army doesn't give two shits that it makes reloading harder, they only care that it holds the original primer tighter. When carefully removed with a countersink all that will be produced are some fine shavings - no intact ring. Go slowly turning the countersink by hand until you see a very slight bevel and then try and seat a new primer. If it goes in without a lot of pressure you are done. When you get the hang of what is required put the countersink in a variable speed drill and go slow. I use a Lee hand primer for everything because it give a much better feel than using a press. Good luck.

Thanks so much marvelshooter! You have answered my question exactly to the point, and more. I appreciated so much. Yes, I am very new to reloading. However, I have attended 4 training classes so far but none of the classes went to this level of details. So far I have only hand-loaded about 120 .223 without removing the crimp with about 10 of them failed in priming (primer deformed in the process). It is going to take a while for my hand-loaded ammo to beat factory ammo in accuracy, if ever...

Also, thanks to JWP and everyone else who provided comments.

P.S.
It is so hard to get anything in terms of reloading tools. I ordered a swagger tool, 9mm die-set and some other tools back in April and I still haven't gotten them yet.
 

xtry51

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Fast, but if your loads are anything close to full power, you have to be careful or you will take too much and end up with lots of primers blowing out and gumming up your gun.

I don't go crazy, just a light touch on low rpm. 2-3 revolutions with a single point chamber bit and light pressure just breaking the edge and primers pop right in.

Also I only do this for bulk loading, for which I'm not loading crazy high.
 
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What he said. ^^^

If you take just a little and attempt to insert a primer, then repeat a few times, you'll figure it out pretty quick. Take as little brass away as you can, but enough so that the primers don't hang up when you try to insert them.

It is easy to do so if all the brass are the same type and is much harder to achieve if I have mixed brass.
 
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I wouldn't say this is a good picture, but hopefully it helps. Four cases, left one still primed, you can see the crimp ring. Next one deprimed, with a squared off entry to the primer pocket and the crimp ring intact. Third one, a 90 degree bevel removed. Fourth one primed, note that the primer is seated below the bulk of where the crimp ring was removed. You don't really open up the pocket itself.. just the entry into it.

Screen shot 2013-08-03 at 10.40.45 PM.png
 
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I wouldn't say this is a good picture, but hopefully it helps. Four cases, left one still primed, you can see the crimp ring. Next one deprimed, with a squared off entry to the primer pocket and the crimp ring intact. Third one, a 90 degree bevel removed. Fourth one primed, note that the primer is seated below the bulk of where the crimp ring was removed. You don't really open up the pocket itself.. just the entry into it.

View attachment 75108

Thank for the pictures. They say a lot!
Before removing the crimp, it appears to me that the crimp is recessed below the head surface with a close-to-90-degree angle. After removing the crimp, some material of the case is also shaved off a little so an angle surface is formed.

Does anyone know the difference between the diameters at the bottom of the primer pocket hole and at the crimp ring level?

Thanks...
 
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I have a lot of WCC 07 NATO brass with the crimp and I use a simple Lyman pocket reamer in a Hornandy case prep trio. Not sure if it does anything but my primers go in just fine.
 
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