Hunting / Hiking with 2M vs. FRS/GMRS

[cockpitbob]

The GMRS radios are claiming some pretty unbelievable ranges (35miles ). Since they operate in the 70cm band their line-of-sight limitations have to be even worse than 2M radions.

Anyone have experience comparing how well FRS/GMRS works in the woods vs. 2M?

 

[C-pher]

I have several sets of them....even one that's the xMRS radios. I haven't really had the chance to test the limits of those yet...but they have a lot more they can do...they claim the longest of any of those radios with a non-line of sight.

I don't think that I've gotten the full distance of the ones I have...but we've used them in traffic and in town when we're splitting up and they do pretty well.

I haven't compared them to 2m yet.


ETA: The xRMS radios are good because they jump freq every 100th of a second or something...so they are harder to scan. As soon as a scanner would pick them up, they move. So they are more secure as they have to be linked to each other for them to work. And you have an address book that you "call" other radios to get them on.

 

[drgrant]

All things being equal VHF will usually get out a bit further with the same amount of power. In many cases it may not make much difference.

FRS isn't bad but you wont really know how reliable something is going to be until you field test it. Every one of those radios is different and you're basically stuck with whatever antenna you get. Just bear in mind that you don't get what you didn't pay for. Also bear in mind that you can forget about talking to someone that's on the other side of a mountain unless there is a repeater you can use for the purpose. (mountains tend to block signals really well.... )

-Mike

 

[MACGYVR]

At UHF frequencies, foliage begins to have an absorbtion effect on the signal thus FRS/GMRS will have reduced distances.

Go 2Meter for hiking and hunting. Will get out plenty far. Can do 25 miles to a repeater on 5W. Plus the huge advantage over FRS is that if you need help, you can actually call someone.

 

[matt]

nice thing about 2m is that even if you can't reach your hiking buddy, there's likely someone listening. And as drgrant said, you can put on a different antenna so if you little rubber duck isn't cutting it you can heave a portable j-pole (made from 300ohm tv antenna lead) into the trees for more gain and better elevation.

 

[Martlet]

nice thing about 2m is that even if you can't reach your hiking buddy, there's likely someone listening. And as drgrant said, you can put on a different antenna so if you little rubber duck isn't cutting it you can heave a portable j-pole (made from 300ohm tv antenna lead) into the trees for more gain and better elevation.

I picked up a rubber duck at HRO that I get very good results from. I can't remember what brand, though. Nothing extravagant.

 

[C-pher]

I have a diamond that I picked up for my HT. I bet it's almost doubled how far I can talk from the stock one.

 

[Martlet]

I have a diamond that I picked up for my HT. I bet it's almost doubled how far I can talk from the stock one.

I think mine may have been a diamond as well. I picked up a nice diamond for my base station. It's really increased my range.

 

[Coyote33]

I don't know a lot, but my Cobra Model Number: FRS 315 WX which I bought a few years ago for skiing in Utah just recently worked pretty well over 1.4 miles talking to some other model on the other end. It served its purpose well skiing in Utah, Vermont, and also REALLY well camping and beaching at the Cape, most likely due to the flat terrain and small trees. Was also very useful for multiple car trip to the Cape for coordination.

 

[strangenh]

The consumer GMRS radios work at good ranges... utterly bound by line of sight. Poor weather and thick forest also messes pretty hard with them, so get the GMRS version for the extra wattage. Something to note is the consumer models all have fixed antennas that are not always well tuned to the device. Looking at the FCC filings for some of the radios out there, for example, there was a 4-watt model with better signal strength measured at the antenna than the 5-watt model in the same product line.

 

[Daniel Boone]

A couple of years ago, Motorola got the bright idea to come out with a GMRS side band radio, which they did, without the permission of the FCC.
I could have bought a couple of those radios and made a real killing.
Including the ones that had the programmable CTCSS codes - which could hijack a private repeater and use it for your own purposes - I think that radio was like a Motorola 7200 or something.

The bottom side is that neither of these radios works for much distance in the woods when there is a lot of trees and mountains to absorb the signal - along with the fact that you need an antenna at least 8 - 16 inches long to really get out and you need to hold it at least a foot away from your body to get it to transmit real good - since your body is 2/3 water and blocks or absorbs a considerable amount of the signal.

The down side to the 2M is that you need both a repeater and a license to get much range out of them. If you go down into a deep valley - they will not have much if any range and all signals reduce at the square of the distance - which means that unless there is someone else hunting with the same radio on the same frequency or is scanning all the frequencies - your chances of getting help with a GMRS or a 2 meter radio is slim to none.

 

[Daniel Boone]

A couple of years ago, Motorola got the bright idea to come out with a GMRS side band radio, which they did, without the permission of the FCC.
I could have bought a couple of those radios and made a real killing.
Including the ones that had the programmable CTCSS codes - which could hijack a private repeater and use it for your own purposes - I think that radio was like a Motorola 7200 or something.

The bottom side is that neither of these radios works for much distance in the woods when there is a lot of trees and mountains to absorb the signal - along with the fact that you need an antenna at least 8 - 16 inches long to really get out and you need to hold it at least a foot away from your body to get it to transmit real good - since your body is 2/3 water and blocks or absorbs a considerable amount of the signal.

The down side to the 2M is that you need both a repeater and a license to get much range out of them. If you go down into a deep valley - they will not have much if any range and all signals reduce at the square of the distance - which means that unless there is someone else hunting with the same radio on the same frequency or is scanning all the frequencies - your chances of getting help with a GMRS or a 2 meter radio is slim to none.

 

[C-pher]

The consumer GMRS radios work at good ranges... utterly bound by line of sight. Poor weather and thick forest also messes pretty hard with them, so get the GMRS version for the extra wattage. Something to note is the consumer models all have fixed antennas that are not always well tuned to the device. Looking at the FCC filings for some of the radios out there, for example, there was a 4-watt model with better signal strength measured at the antenna than the 5-watt model in the same product line.

Just remember that if you want to legally use GMRS radios, you need to get the FCC GMRS License. I think that it's 80 bucks for 5 years.

 

[drgrant]

Just remember that if you want to legally use GMRS radios, you need to get the FCC GMRS License. I think that it's 80 bucks for 5 years.

Yes, but nobody obeys that, unless they're running a repeater. I'm surprised at this point that the FCC hasn't just put GMRS handhelds as being under Part 95, that's how widespread the non-use of licenses are.

-Mike

 

[radioman]

2M all day long. Leave the toys at home. At base camp you can send the kid up a 100' tree with a x-50 antenna and a 125' of coax. This will give you close to a 100 mile range with a 50w rig and a battery depending on the terrain. The guys in the field will most likely hear you even if they can't transmit to you. There are so many options with 2m that don't exist with the toys. Remember 2m has a 1500 watt limit vs the 5w of the toys.

 

[drgrant]

2M all day long. Leave the toys at home. At base camp you can send the kid up a 100' tree with a x-50 antenna and a 125' of coax. This will give you close to a 100 mile range with a 50w rig and a battery depending on the terrain. The guys in the field will most likely hear you even if they can't transmit to you. There are so many options with 2m that don't exist with the toys. Remember 2m has a 1500 watt limit vs the 5w of the toys.

The problem with 2M is everyone needs to be licensed. The test etc is trivial but trying to get people to get licensed is like trying to give a cat a bath.

-Mike

 

[cockpitbob]

The problem with 2M is everyone needs to be licensed. The test etc is trivial but trying to get people to get licensed is like trying to give a cat a bath.

-Mike

This.

And then there's the $150 for a modest 5W HT vs. $30 for a GMRS.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

The sons and I have been using GMRS 3 to 5 watts for hunting for years. It has worked well, but we are never more than a mile or so apart. Jack.

 

[Coyote33]

So, a Cobra microTALK® CXT90 18-Mile Radio can be had for $40 for a pair at https://www.cobra.com/detail/microtalk-cxt90-18-mile-radio.cfm

How much for a decent "2M" pair of radios?

18 miles is fine by me.

For others, there are 35 mile radios for $99/pair at https://www.cobra.com/category/?cid=13&lvl=1

 

[C-pher]

Yes, but nobody obeys that, unless they're running a repeater. I'm surprised at this point that the FCC hasn't just put GMRS handhelds as being under Part 95, that's how widespread the non-use of licenses are.

-Mike

I know...but because of this....I don't think that anyone even knows that they need to be. And....I'm one of those that obeys that....

 

[jar]

So, a Cobra microTALK® CXT90 18-Mile Radio can be had for $40 for a pair at https://www.cobra.com/detail/microtalk-cxt90-18-mile-radio.cfm

How much for a decent "2M" pair of radios?

18 miles is fine by me.

For others, there are 35 mile radios for $99/pair at https://www.cobra.com/category/?cid=13&lvl=1

Any radio rated in miles is blowing smoke. Range depends far more on topography than the radio. A better radio will give you more range, all else equal, but the all else is still the dominant factor.

A basic 5 watt 2 meter HT will run about $100-150.

 

[strangenh]

Any radio rated in miles is blowing smoke. Range depends far more on topography than the radio. A better radio will give you more range, all else equal, but the all else is still the dominant factor.

A basic 5 watt 2 meter HT will run about $100-150.

Yeah, that. Line of sight, foliage, and weather govern distance with these, and the "miles" are based only on the advertised wattage. Again, consumer GMRS radios tend to have antennas that aren't exactly well matched to the radio. Putting it mildly.

Go here: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm

You can look up the radios by putting "GMR" into the product description field. Then look up test results under the 'detail' link for each radio you're interested in (the results are usually PDFs; you may have to rename the files after they download to have a .PDF extension). The actual measured emission power numbers are surprising.

Some are crazy - like the FRS (not GMR) .5W radio that was tested radiating .26W at the antenna. Or one maker with a 5W radio in the same series and year as their 4W... but the 5W radiated about the same as the 3W from the same lineup.

 

[Coyote33]

Anybody want to do a test of these some weekend? We all just agree to a channel and a time, and turn them on and see who turns up. Could be fun to try.

 

[Zappa]

If you want the most reliable portable communication, two meter is the way to go.
FRS radios are OK for the kids to play with, but there are way too may limitations.
Range, no repeater offsets, channel overcrowding at big events (like Nascar races).
They're like CB walkies were in the 70's but with far less range.
Two Meter is, by far, the most popular Ham repeater band.
It's tough to find a spot anywhere in the US where you can't get into at least one 2M repeater with an HT. The equipment to get there is so cheap and easy to find nowadays, you can get a brand new Chinese made dual band (2/440) HT for $100 bucks.
The downside, as Dr Grant pointed out, is that everyone needs a license to use it.

 

[rep308]

Can some of you radio-heads, explain this to me like I am a 5 year old? Can you please offer a couple of models to buy?

 

[Coyote33]

If you want the most reliable portable communication, two meter is the way to go.
FRS radios are OK for the kids to play with, but there are way too may limitations.....

But there is something to be said for the number of users. No use having something nobody else has.

Can some of you radio-heads, explain this to me like I am a 5 year old? Can you please offer a couple of models to buy?

Yes, I agree.

 

[jar]

It's tough to find a spot anywhere in the US where you can't get into at least one 2M repeater with an HT. The equipment to get there is so cheap and easy to find nowadays, you can get a brand new Chinese made dual band (2/440) HT for $100 bucks.
The downside, as Dr Grant pointed out, is that everyone needs a license to use it.

I'd pony up the ~$225 for a legit 5W HT from one of the big names. With those you also get wideband receive of everything from AM broadcast at 500khz to the 900MHz public safety bands. I'm happy with my Icom T90 that I bought ~5 years ago, but they seem to be discontinued. Features I'd recommend: 5 Watt transmit on 2m(144Mhz) and 440, lithium ion battery pack with AA adapter available, wideband receive. Based on a 5 minutes search, I'd probably give a hard look at the Yaesu VX-6R.

 

[C-pher]

I'd pony up the ~$225 for a legit 5W HT from one of the big names. With those you also get wideband receive of everything from AM broadcast at 500khz to the 900MHz public safety bands. I'm happy with my Icom T90 that I bought ~5 years ago, but they seem to be discontinued. Features I'd recommend: 5 Watt transmit on 2m(144Mhz) and 440, lithium ion battery pack with AA adapter available, wideband receive. Based on a 5 minutes search, I'd probably give a hard look at the Yaesu VX-6R.

I have the Yaesu FT-60R and I love it...it does all that you would like...and isn't that expensive. HRO has one for 175 with free shipping. I'm sure that you could get one cheaper on eBay.

Edit to add that the FT-60 doesn't do the 220 band...but I don't know too many people that do..so no loss.

I've used the VX-8DR and don't see a lot of use on the 6m either...so save the money and go with the FT-60.

 

[jar]

I have the Yaesu FT-60R and I love it...it does all that you would like...and isn't that expensive. HRO has one for 175 with free shipping. I'm sure that you could get one cheaper on eBay.

Edit to add that the FT-60 doesn't do the 220 band...but I don't know too many people that do..so no loss.

I've used the VX-8DR and don't see a lot of use on the 6m either...so save the money and go with the FT-60.

Agreed on 220. To me the size/weight savings, water proofing, and lithium ion battery are worth the extra $50, but the FT-60 is definitely a solid choice.

 

[C-pher]

Back on topic, I have and people I know have FRS radios. I do not have nor do I know anyone who has these 2M, 5M, or FT-60 radios. Doesn't having someone to communicate WITH count more than just the POSSIBILITY (capability) to communicate?

As was said before, you'd be hard pressed to not be somewhere with a 2m radio and not be able to hit a repeater...which will get you to people. There are more people talking on the Ham bands that you would think. I can almost always raise someone on any repeater I can hit while driving around. And, if you can hit a repeater, you'll eventually contact another person.

If you're in the woods with a FRS radio and there's no one within ear shot of you...you're pretty much out of luck as they don't really go that far when you add in hills, line of sight, canopy, brush and other woodsy environmental issues...

I can talk almost 50+ miles with my radio hooked to an antenna on my roof in the basement. Out in the yard, I can get about 15-20. I can hit the Norwood Repeater from INSIDE my house in North Attleboro on my HT using my diamond rather than the stock duck. Google Maps tells me that that's a little over 21 miles...that's with hills, houses and other barriers in the way.

You'd never come close to that with a FRS radio.

Although, if I'm wrong, someone please tell me...