How did background checks work before 1998?

[cathouse01]

I’ve told this story elsewhere, but when I got my Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 mag back in Minnesota around 1971 (actually my dad bought it for me since I was under 21), it was an “endcap” special (that’s the stuff they put on the end of an aisle, usually something they want to move at a reduced price) at the local Target. There was just a bunch of them sitting there at the end of the aisle. Just pick a box up, put it in your cart and keep on shopping. Only thing they did at checkout was check your age. This was back when Target was Minneapolis’s Dayton-Hudson's cheap outlet store (for you Bostonians think Filene's Basement).

 

[nstassel]

I started buying my own when I hit 18 in 1993 I can tell you with absolute certainty that there were no 4473s at service merchandise then I bought my marlin 22 (technically my father bought it and blue-carded it to me right there in the store lol) or at Bob's sport shop when I bought my Star 9mm. Show FID or LTC, pay, leave, the end.

The funny thing is, for anyone old enough to remember service merchandise, the rifle very unceremoniously came down the conveyor from the warehouse, Just like a basket ball or bedding set you may have been buying at the time.

I bought my first gun at service merchandise in 1983. The 4473 was used then and had already been in use for 20 years.

 

[namedpipes]

...
Here's a simplification - Before 1998 you didn't need to ask the federal government's permission to purchase a firearm from a gun store. Before 1968 you didn't need permission to buy a gun directly from a manufacturer. Before 1934 there were no federal gun laws and you could order anything the military had from a Sears catalog even if you were 4 years old.

I'd like to see the various gun infringements such as 1934, 1968, 1994, 1998 charted against so called "gun violence" and mass shootings. I'd bet we'd find a rise in violence/shootings coincident with increased laws.

 

[1903Collector]

I started buying my own when I hit 18 in 1993 I can tell you with absolute certainty that there were no 4473s at service merchandise then I bought my marlin 22 (technically my father bought it and blue-carded it to me right there in the store lol) or at Bob's sport shop when I bought my Star 9mm. Show FID or LTC, pay, leave, the end.

The funny thing is, for anyone old enough to remember service merchandise, the rifle very unceremoniously came down the conveyor from the warehouse, Just like a basket ball or bedding set you may have been buying at the time.

Oh the excitement you felt when you saw your shit come out that little door on the conveyer belt!

 

[ProGun]

I’ve told this story elsewhere, but when I got my Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 mag back in Minnesota around 1971 (actually my dad bought it for me since I was under 21), it was an “endcap” special (that’s the stuff they put on the end of an aisle, usually something they want to move at a reduced price) at the local Target. There was just a bunch of them sitting there at the end of the aisle. Just pick a box up, put it in your cart and keep on shopping. Only thing they did at checkout was check your age. This was back when Target was Minneapolis’s Dayton-Hudson's cheap outlet store (for you Bostonians think Filene's Basement).

We had Hudson's as a kid in Michigan. They were in all the malls, and few other places too (circa 1980). I forgot, Hudson's actually started in Detroit...

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Well, from the above posts, it seems that some stores maybe were selling guns either without a FFL or did have the FFL and just didn't use the 4473s or the Mass FA10s (which had to be ordered from the state by the dealer after they had they had a dealers license). This little inconvenient detail was overlooked by many FFLs. Each to his own. All I know is that when I was licensed in 1982 I was sent 1 1/2 pounds of 4473s and told to use them. Or else. Without the FFL there would be no ATF audits so life went on and nobody GAS. Until Clinton told ATF to reduce the # of dealers any way possible. I was dealing from the house in Acton and ATF told me to show a biz cert. I had one for fortune telling, and the "use" was on the back of the form. I sent them only the front side. That worked. I could then keep selling machine guns with a business certificate to tell fortunes. You have to game the system. Jack.

 

[fshalor]

I'd like to see the various gun infringements such as 1934, 1968, 1994, 1998 charted against so called "gun violence" and mass shootings. I'd bet we'd find a rise in violence/shootings coincident with increased laws.

Eh. I've done it. Not much to look at.
None of them have made any difference. Even if you remove or account for the baseline violent crime signal and normalize based on population.

As of now, it's all just a distraction away from deaths in hospital and drug/gang shit.

 

[namedpipes]

Eh. I've done it. Not much to look at.
None of them have made any difference. Even if you remove or account for the baseline violent crime signal and normalize based on population.

As of now, it's all just a distraction away from deaths in hospital and drug/gang shit.

No, you have to screw with the numbers like the anti gun crowd does.

"Prove" that gun control caused more Mass shootings. Trust me. It is possible to cook the books any way you want.

 

[mikeyp]

If the Brady Bill was enacted in 93, and it required BGCs, how did they not start until 98?

 

[Matt_SERE]

If the Brady Bill was enacted in 93, and it required BGCs, how did they not start until 98?

The background checks had to be invented, staffed and implemented and that took until 1998. The transition was completed and interim provisions were covered.

In '93 there were huge Thanksgiving Black Friday sales at many stores. I was lucky to stop by the old Collectors Coin in Stoneham, as in two stores ago. The line was out the door and around the corner of the beauty salon on to Montvale Ave. As this was the first magazine ban of this type there were a lot of unknowns. Thank god it had a sunset of ten years. Unfortunately MA passed legislation to continue it.

ETA Clarification:

Brady Law | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

On November 30, 1993, the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act was enacted, amending the Gun Control Act of 1968. The Brady Law imposed as an interim measure a waiting period of 5 days before a licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer may sell, deliver, or transfer a handgun to an unlicensed...

www.atf.gov

Brady Law

On November 30, 1993, the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act was enacted, amending the Gun Control Act of 1968. The Brady Law imposed as an interim measure a waiting period of 5 days before a licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer may sell, deliver, or transfer a handgun to an unlicensed individual. The waiting period applies only in states without an acceptable alternate system of conducting background checks on handgun purchasers. The interim provisions of the Brady Law became effective on February 28, 1994, and ceased to apply on November 30, 1998. While the interim provisions of the Brady Law apply only to handguns, the permanent provisions of the Brady Law apply to all firearms.

 

[mikeyp]

The bill wasn't enacted until 1994. The background checks had to be invented, staffed and implemented and that took until 1998.

Sorry, passed in 93, but yeah, that makes sense

 

[smokey-seven]

I still have 4473s in my files going back to 1982 (when many of you were still pissing your pants). One page, no NICS check. Jack.

Jack, my memory is dim on the sequence of events and the timing.

I can remember buying fire arms in MA and the only paperwork post 1968 was a visual look at my LTC and the flimsy copy of the MA paperwork out of a book like a checkbook, where a hard copy was retained by the dealership. This in effect, although denied, was a MA, "registration" of the firearm purchased from an FFL.

I do not recall the date when the 4473's first came into existence. When was that? Which law made them required?

I bought my first gun at service merchandise in 1983. The 4473 was used then and had already been in use for 20 years.

I don't think that is an accurate statement, that would mean the 4473's were in use in 1963, and that is dead wrong.

 

[nstassel]

I don't think that is an accurate statement, that would mean the 4473's were in use in 1963, and that is dead wrong.

I have read that the original 4473 was in existence prior to the gca from the early 60s and that it was expanded to becone the general form we know today that includes so much information in 1968.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

When they had more ambition ATF would send periodic newsletters to all dealers detailing the latest changes in the regs. They also held periodic seminars and invited dealers to attend. I don't know if they were invited or not, but someone from the state (this is Mass) would show up to basically beat up on the dealers and tell them what would happen to them if they did not "conform". The dealers, myself included, would take the opportunity, during the Q&A period, to give the state a ration of shit for being anti 2A, slow with licensing, discrimination and being shitheads in general. We had a great time watching the bastard (s) sweat. The ATF guys got a kick out of that. ATF would also send to dealers, about every 10 years, revised copies of all the federal regs and state laws. This is no longer, probably because the gov't needs the $$ to feed the FSA. Jack.

 

[Len-2A Training]

When they had more ambition ATF would send periodic newsletters to all dealers detailing the latest changes in the regs. They also held periodic seminars and invited dealers to attend. I don't know if they were invited or not, but someone from the state (this is Mass) would show up to basically beat up on the dealers and tell them what would happen to them if they did not "conform". The dealers, myself included, would take the opportunity, during the Q&A period, to give the state a ration of shit for being anti 2A, slow with licensing, discrimination and being shitheads in general. We had a great time watching the bastard (s) sweat. The ATF guys got a kick out of that. ATF would also send to dealers, about every 10 years, revised copies of all the federal regs and state laws. This is no longer, probably because the gov't needs the $$ to feed the FSA. Jack.

I attended one of those seminars i the 1990s. It was held at a college in Worcester. I never heard of another one after that.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I attended one of those seminars i the 1990s. It was held at a college in Worcester. I never heard of another one after that.

The last ones that I remember were held at a hotel in Woburn or Burlington and another in Boston at the Federal Bldg. I'll bet that a few guys who went CCW to the Fed bldg in Boston shit their britches when that topic was brought up by someone. Jack.

 

[teamRR]

I'm pretty sure in 1997 the FFL filled out my form based on my input & drivers license and then I just signed it. At the time wasn't buying pistols, but for rifles what a wonderful system compared to today - just felt like buying a new tool or something. Of course I wasn't around for when you put the gun in your shopping cart and a kid at the counter rang it up the same as your hack saw and box of screws.

 

[Auto-5]

Bought my first gun at Two Guys on Boston Road in Springfield in 1965. I was twelve
and had my mom with me. They said they needed her permission to sell me the gun.
There was no paperwork other than the register receipt that I remember.
It was a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem. It cost $69.95 of my hard earned paper money!

 

[smokey-seven]

I have read that the original 4473 was in existence prior to the gca from the early 60s

If there was a requirement for a 4473 in the early 60's, then how could Sears mail a catalog gun to you after getting the order?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

If NICS checks aren't an infringement on rights, I want NICS checks on every voter before their vote is counted.

 

[namedpipes]

Bought my first gun at Two Guys on Boston Road in Springfield in 1965. I was twelve
and had my mom with me. They said they needed her permission to sell me the gun.
There was no paperwork other than the register receipt that I remember.
It was a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem. It cost $69.95 of my hard earned paper money!

Shame that Five Guys doesn't have guns on the menu. "Would you like fries with that?"

 

[Parker Duofold]

I bought my first rifle in late1964 when I was 14 years old. It was a .22 semi auto and my father took me to a hardware store in Newport, NH for the purchase. I remember the guy behind the counter showing me bolt actions and semi autos. I bought the Ruger 10/22 that I think was made right there in Newport. I wish I still had that rifle. It got stolen in a break in at our lake house in NH.

I paid cash for the rifle, my name was on the receipt and my Dad probably gave the seller the ok but I don't remember that part.

 

[Whutmeworry]

I know this will sound crazy but, what happens when you go buy a bag of chips? It was exactly the same buying a gun. You go in select the item and pay for it. Period.

Except if they're a HIGH CAPACITY bag of chips. In that case, you've always been required to prove you NEED them first.

 

[dhuze]

You know how it worked? Just fine.

 

[strangenh]

I do not recall the date when the 4473's first came into existence. When was that? Which law made them required?

Even ATF says it started in 1968. It was created to fulfill some of the GCA '68 requirements. It's possible the roll-out was slow. I can't find much history about it. But that form didn't exist before '68.

 

[greencobra]

i don't remember a nics or background check for each purchase back then in massachusetts. when i moved to colorado in 1994 they had a wants and warrants call to the cbi data base that was done for an ffl point of sale or transfer. never saw one before that. a suitability check, quick check or minute check...it was called one of those names iirc back then in colorado. cbi = colorado bureau of investigation.