Gun Violence report in the hands of DeLeo

[kevin9]

I contacted my rep, Jonathan Zlotnik, via FB to attempt to initiate a dialogue. No response. Will continue with other means.

 

[Waher]

I guess that I shouldn't be surprised. Naughton also said that bill that removes the FID requirement for Pepper Spray would be passed or already has been passed!! This hearing was 10 *&(kin months ago!! No pepper spray bill passed yet! But we do have a bill that will take LTCs away from people that wrote in a library book $&(kin 40 years ago!

The pepper spray bill will pass at the same time this shit sandwich does to give the appearance of "compromise" and give Dan Rea/Fudd types a "win". Meanwhile back in the real world everyone paying attention will have lost 90% of their rights in exchange for a trivial 10%.

 

[GM-GUY]

You only lose when you surrender.

Don't get me wrong, we will fight this - but the same way 'we have a secure border' (just ask ICE) - we can have gun laws. I carry a copy of the United States Constitution with me all the time. The worst I have done is play fast and loose with the traffic and parking laws, and that was more than 11 years ago.

If that 'Up to 1 Yr' goes through - thinking of a forum member - MichaelJR......care to make any statements

 

[PaulD]

Soooo......if someone's colostomy bag bursts, would they then become a PP?

If true, it could be argued that every MA legislator who writes a bill is a PP.

 

[GM-GUY]

I contacted my rep, Jonathan Zlotnik, via FB to attempt to initiate a dialogue. No response. Will continue with other means.

Zlotnik was in Ohio on a junket....ahhh 'Jobs Incubator' fact finding mission, he may not be back yet - but he's is my rep too.

 

[kevin9]

Zlotnik was in Ohio on a junket....ahhh 'Jobs Incubator' fact finding mission, he may not be back yet - but he's is my rep too.

Actually heard back from him today:

Hi ...,

I just saw your facebook message as well. I oppose the Speaker's gun bill. I have a lot of problems with this bill and I intend to vote against it. Obviously mental health and crime are issues that need to be addressed but I do not believe 'gun control' is the answer.

-Jon

Representative Zlotnik
Second Worcester District
Ashburnham, Gardner, Westminster, Winchendon

Sounds good. We'll see what happens when push comes to shove and he actually has to vote against his party leader.

 

[Bill Katt]

If true, it could be argued that every MA legislator who writes a bill is a PP.

Most of them probably already are PP's.

 

[JJ4]

If true, it could be argued that every MA legislator who writes a bill is a PP.

Can anyone (easily) look up legislators criminal records and come up with a number of legislators who would be affected by this?

If someone can stand up at the hearing and say "I crunched the numbers, 15 of you would be prohibited from owning firearms due to this. Representative XXX did YYYY 20 years ago, he paid a small fine to make it go away and served no jail time, and now he'd be prohibited. It's not right for him and it's not right for the thousands of MA residents who would be affected."

 

[yanici]

Can anyone (easily) look up legislators criminal records and come up with a number of legislators who would be affected by this?

If someone can stand up at the hearing and say "I crunched the numbers, 15 of you would be prohibited from owning firearms due to this. Representative XXX did YYYY 20 years ago, he paid a small fine to make it go away and served no jail time, and now he'd be prohibited. It's not right for him and it's not right for the thousands of MA residents who would be affected."

That would be awesome!!

 

[Royal]

Can anyone (easily) look up legislators criminal records and come up with a number of legislators who would be affected by this?

I'm not sure how "easy" it would be but this is a fantastic idea.

 

[Bill Katt]

Can anyone (easily) look up legislators criminal records and come up with a number of legislators who would be affected by this?

If someone can stand up at the hearing and say "I crunched the numbers, 15 of you would be prohibited from owning firearms due to this. Representative XXX did YYYY 20 years ago, he paid a small fine to make it go away and served no jail time, and now he'd be prohibited. It's not right for him and it's not right for the thousands of MA residents who would be affected."

That would be awesome!!

I'm not sure how "easy" it would be but this is a fantastic idea.

As they frantically write in THEIR exemptions.

 

[MA_Shooter]

Can anyone (easily) look up legislators criminal records and come up with a number of legislators who would be affected by this?

If someone can stand up at the hearing and say "I crunched the numbers, 15 of you would be prohibited from owning firearms due to this. Representative XXX did YYYY 20 years ago, he paid a small fine to make it go away and served no jail time, and now he'd be prohibited. It's not right for him and it's not right for the thousands of MA residents who would be affected."

Unless they own guns may not care but always good to call out the hypocrites.

 

[JohnZ]

If the pen truly is mightier than the sword then I propose that if you cannot be trusted with a gun, why should you be trusted to write laws?

 

[DarthRevan]

If the pen truly is mightier than the sword then I propose that if you cannot be trusted with a gun, why should you be trusted to write laws?

"Because we're smarter than you."

 

[JJ4]

Maybe we should go on the offensive and demand the removal of the AWB? If this is supposed to be a "comprehensive" gun violence bill then in my opinion all MA firearms laws are on trial.

Even people who know nothing about guns can be convinced that a sliding stock or pistol grip have no effect on the lethality of a firearm.

I even have Linsky on video saying there's no difference between a pre-ban AR-15 and a MA compliant AR-15 (or something to that effect).

I would like a copy of that

I agree. All bets are off, and all options are open. If they want "give and take", let's not deny them.

I was slightly mistaken about WHEN he said this, but the good news is that it's part of an on the record newspaper quote!! Here's the exact quote and citation:

“In my view, the only difference between a legal, large capacity rifle and a grandfathered assault weapon or banned assault weapon are cosmetics, so in my view they will be treated the same.” (Metrowest Daily News, 1/17/2013).

The article is here, but it's paywalled. You can print it quickly if you're fast. I have a saved PDF if anyone needs.
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/article/20130117/News/301179922


In case this is useful, here are all the videos I took from the June 11 2013 Sherborn meeting.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zcs0cu1qw0dhbkt/AADdXTpV8KaGGpLkBhdnH6M_a

My summary of the meeting is here, note that I was asked to stop recording and politely refused.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...Meeting-6-11?p=3249863&viewfull=1#post3249863
Continued here:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...Meeting-6-11?p=3250502&viewfull=1#post3250502

There are a few good pieces to the video:
- Linsky gives a pretty accurate description of what the 2A means in light of Heller and McDonald. Talks about guns in common use.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6c2q92png84tuiz/2013-06-11 20.12.24.mp4

- Answering a question about what an "Assault Weapon" is that he agrees with gun enthusiasts who don't like that term., describes how the legal definition is really all cosmetic, etc. This is where I was asked to stop. Then the chiefs fail to actually answer my question about a spree killer entering your room when you're defenseless [follow the protocols they say - but my protocols end at cower in the room].
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ytd5afz4lwdvoax/2013-06-11 20.20.58.mp4

- Answering a question about 25% taxes [essentially he put it in there to see what the reaction was].
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bm89mudbw6v31to/2013-06-11 20.48.31.mp4

 

[Dadstoys]

Can anyone (easily) look up legislators criminal records and come up with a number of legislators who would be affected by this?

If someone can stand up at the hearing and say "I crunched the numbers, 15 of you would be prohibited from owning firearms due to this. Representative XXX did YYYY 20 years ago, he paid a small fine to make it go away and served no jail time, and now he'd be prohibited. It's not right for him and it's not right for the thousands of MA residents who would be affected."

Rosenthal in particular comes to mind.
After all his yapping about being a " responsable" gun owner, it will be the sweetest irony to see him turning in his FID and guns if this passed.
I'm sure he won't mind because "It's for the children".

 

[JJ4]

Here's from the cool-aid drinkers over at the Metrowest Daily News editorial page:

Massachusetts has some of the toughest gun laws in the country, and has one of the lowest firearm death rates. That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement; 2,179 people in the Bay State died from gunshot wounds in the first decade of this century, and surely many of those deaths were preventable. But it does mean that some of the options still being hotly debated in other states are already in place here, so progress will most likely be made through incremental improvements to laws and policies – like those included in legislation due to come before the House this week.
Because gun violence comes in many forms, there's no single way to reduce it. Forty separate provisions in the bill, introduced last week by House Speaker Robert DeLeo, address different aspects of the problem.
Suicide, for instance, accounts for most gun-related deaths, and guns are used in two-thirds of the state's suicides. So the bill boosts mental health education in schools, suicide prevention in gun-owner training classes, and toughens safe gun storage efforts.
The combination of guns and mental illness has led to horrendous tragedies from Newtown, Conn., to Isla Vista, Calif. DeLeo's bill treads carefully here, neither reinforcing the stigma that mentally ill people are especially violent – they aren't – nor restricting their rights. It would allow Massachusetts to contribute the names of those involuntarily committed to a mental health program and others denied the ability to purchase guns to a national database. But it wouldn't impose new reporting requirements on mental health providers, which we fear could discourage gun-owners from seeking help. The bill has been endorsed by the Massachusetts chapter of the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
The bill would extend the discretion police chiefs how have to deny licenses to carry handguns for residents deemed "unsuitable," to rifles and shotguns. The nation saw in last year's mass shooting at the Washington Navy Yard that a mentally unbalanced person can do at least as much damage with a shotgun as with a handgun.
Gun-owners have raised reasonable objections that current law lets chiefs deny licenses to carry based on arbitrary, even ideological grounds. The DeLeo bill addresses this by requiring state officials to create a set of uniform standards of suitability. Chiefs' licensing decisions can also be appealed through the courts.
For guns used in crimes, the main problem isn't licensed gun-owners but those who purchase guns on the secondary market. DeLeo's bill requires all private sales be completed in the presence of a licensed dealer, which may help. We would have preferred DeLeo include the limits on purchases long pushed by Gov. Deval Patrick, and we welcome an amendment suggested by Rep. David Linsky, D-Natick, to increase penalties for illegal gun sales.
No law can guarantee safety or address every possible scenario, and this bill is far from the last word on gun control. But it is a thoughtful, carefully-constructed response to the shortcomings in the state's current gun laws, one we hope can become law before the Legislature adjourns at the end of July.

 

[Blitz1]

 

[OfficerObie59]

Here's from the cool-aid drinkers over at the Metrowest Daily News editorial page:

...No law can guarantee safety or address every possible scenario, and this bill is far from the last word on gun control. But it is a thoughtful, carefully-constructed response to the shortcomings in the state's current gun laws, one we hope can become law before the Legislature adjourns at the end of July.

I wonder what bill they're reading.

There are more holes and inconsistencies among the individual provisions of this bill than I can ever remember seeing in a piece of legislation.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Originally posted by JJ4
"For guns used in crimes, the main problem isn't licensed gun-owners but those who purchase guns on the secondary market. DeLeo's bill requires all private sales be completed in the presence of a licensed dealer, which may help. "

Doesn't this imply that the people DeLeo wants to have to buy guns through dealers are the ones who are "unlicensed" ? I didn't even realize that if you don't have an LTC or FID you could still buy a gun from a licensed dealer!

 

[sieveboy]

One thing is right, this is not the last word on gun control. This Bill puts in place the twisted infrastructure to really **** us next time.

 

[atilla]

one of my friends stuck behind the iron curtain was catching me up on this bill and i really hope that you guys can beat it. it's not as bad as i'd imagined a bill would be, but it's still terrible, and a few little bits of it are especially nasty. wishing you guys the best of luck with your fight tomorrow.

 

[MA_Shooter]

Doesn't this imply that the people DeLeo wants to have to buy guns through dealers are the ones who are "unlicensed" ? I didn't even realize that if you don't have an LTC or FID you could still buy a gun from a licensed dealer!

You must have forgotten the sarcasm tag.

 

[JJ4]

Anyone know or can reasonably estimate the amount of money the state and towns have spent defending LOSING cases in court over the past decade?

E.g. Davis v Grimes, the one about resident alien ltcs... etc

It would be good testimony to say that these bad laws have cost the state and towns money.



Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[thorin]

Here's from the cool-aid drinkers over at the Metrowest Daily News editorial page:

They f'd up the suicide statistic in that editorial. I have caught similar errors in other editorials, its like they just make up a number that sounds good. If you look at the MA DPH 2010 figures, 26% of successful suicides in MA by firearm for men, 7% for women. Which works out to 22% of all suicides by combining both genders. The editorial is off by 44% when they claim that 2/3 of suicides in MA are by firearm. http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/docs/dph/injury-surveillance/suicide/suicide-update-spring2013.pdf

 

[JJ4]

They f'd up the suicide statistic in that editorial. I have caught similar errors in other editorials, its like they just make up a number that sounds good. If you look at the MA DPH 2010 figures, 26% of successful suicides in MA by firearm for men, 7% for women. Which works out to 22% of all suicides by combining both genders. The editorial is off by 44% when they claim that 2/3 of suicides in MA are by firearm. http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/docs/dph/injury-surveillance/suicide/suicide-update-spring2013.pdf

I noticed that too, thank you for providing a good rebuttal source. He's confusing the 2/3's of gun deaths are actually suicides.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I wonder what bill they're reading.

There are more holes and inconsistencies among the individual provisions of this bill than I can ever remember seeing in a piece of legislation.

Indeed, it reads far worse than even Ch. 180 of the Acts of 1998 did. They ignore USDC cases that the state already lost, they want doctors to tell people to remove all dangerous items from their home (how will they eat steak/roasts/etc), DQ a large percentage of current legal gun owners, ban the transfer of all guns (AG must approve everything or can veto anything), etc.

My letters are mailed and Emailed. Calls will be made later today after they all wake up and amble into work.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Anyone know or can reasonably estimate the amount of money the state and towns have spent defending LOSING cases in court over the past decade?

E.g. Davis v Grimes, the one about resident alien ltcs... etc

It would be good testimony to say that these bad laws have cost the state and towns money.



Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

They don't care about money. its not their money

 

[Mike S]

Just updated the public hearing prep page, if you're planning on attending and it's your first time, give the page a read.

http://goal.org/public-hearing-prep.html

 

[mordeeb]

offices are open start calling and then call again!