Goodbye, Mass Rifle Association

[Martlet]

Who was the boy pointing a gun at your head as I didn't witness anything like that.

Younger guy with a pistol I didn't recognize. I don't know who he was. He walked in the same time I did. I set my gun down to clean up and looked over my shoulder. It looked as though he was checking out someone's new sights, as they were talking about them when I walked into the room. He was taking a sight picture down range. That's great in theory, but not when you're in the viewing room and "down range" is on the other side of my head.

 

[Martlet]

Marlet,

If you're still looking for a new club you should check out Harvard Sportsmans Club. You'll never NOT have a place to shoot. There are so many shooting pits there you never have to wait. Only problem with HSC is the indoor range isn't as good as Mass Rifles.

Unfortunately, Harvard is a little further than I'd like to travel.

 

[Massman]

Massman, I do not think it’s very easy to get on the board. I remember how difficult it was for you to get in.

Also, I stand behind my statements.

Fact: I personally know an MRA member without LTC or FID card; he shoots weird looking air guns.

Fact: There is huge problem with 50 yard range security; you guys even have a special meeting next month.
Also check log book from last night 11/24/2007 about 9:00 p.m.
You will see 1 member and 4 guests signed in, in fact it was 7 people on the range, and they were together. I was so cold and uncomfortable, so I had to leave.

Fact: Overcrowded. I personally saw people almost had a fight over empty lane in LOEB,
Mostly because more than half of them were broken

As I said I can go on and on.
Nothing personal, but it is what it is.

Arbella,
Nothing personal. We have had some concerns on the outdoor ranges. Hence the meetings. I will check the log. We have had more problems with people abusing the guest policy. Short of not allowing guests, this has been a particular problem for the BOD.
The situation with the target carriers has been a problem. The BOD approved a new system, which I am working on the installation, hopefully this will solve some down time in the future.
The BOD has worked to correct alot of situations which do not have easy solutions. We welcome input from the membership.

 

[z0mbi]

Well, I'm going to join MRA anyway. Their indoor range and their proximity to me is too good to pass up. Hopefully, I can find a time to go there where it's not too crowded and being that it is 24/7 and I am often up at weird hours, I don't think that will be a problem.

*edit: Massman, you could restrict the NUMBER of guests, maybe? It's always been my experience that people are fine in small groups, but once you start increasing numbers the group dynamic changes and the a**h***s take over. Just make it so only one guest is allowed at a time, excluding family members maybe?

 

[Massman]

It's possible. I didn't examine the person. When I walked back into the room from the range, two people were talking by the door into the hall. One was sitting on my hard case. I said excuse me, and got a dirty look in return. The person stood up, and moved one step, forcing me to squeeze between them to load my gear.

I'm pretty certain it was you. I've been wrong before, though.

Regardless, it's just icing on the cake of disappointments. Apparently, at least several other people in this thread agree with me.

I am certain that the person sitting on your case was not me. One, I have more respect for anothers equipment than that. Two, if you are the person I told that we would be setting up, I walked over to you to discuss this from across the room.

 

[Massman]

zOmbi,
Glad to hear that you are going to join the MRA. If I am in the office, introduce yourself.
(Massman=Rich F.)
Your advice about the guest policy is good. Thank you

 

[Martlet]

I am certain that the person sitting on your case was not me. One, I have more respect for anothers equipment than that. Two, if you are the person I told that we would be setting up, I walked over to you to discuss this from across the room.

My apologies. Maybe you didn't talk to me at all. Several people walked in the same time I did. I wasn't with them, though.

That was the main issue with sitting on my case. It won't hurt it, but it's pretty disrespectful to sit on someone else's equipment. Then to look at me like I'm a jerk for inconveniencing them when I ask them to move. Too much.

The main reasons I most likely won't renew are probably not unique to me. You should look at them, since others probably feel the same way. Many of us are good members. I use the club infrequently. Mostly just to sight in my rifles. The majority of my shooting I do on base. I sweep the entire range if I'm the last one out. I've referred several members, all of whom have left for similar reasons. I'm quiet, I'm safe, and I like to think I'm pretty friendly.

1. Outside range rules. This isn't anyone's "fault", it's just a policy that may work well for others, but doesn't work well for me. I very rarely can be at MRA at 9am on a Sunday. I have shown up a few times, but they couldn't qualify me for whatever reason. This means that I have never been able to use those ranges.

2. Range conditions. Loeb range and the archery range are really the only ranges I use. Loeb range usually has a problem, whether it's broken or filthy. Maybe it's not always like that and I just seem to hit it on the bad times. You shouldn't have to clean a line before you can use it.

3. Range safety. Are members still required to attend a safety course? The gun handling I saw today something I see regularly. It seems people pay attention on the line, but then go to hell in the viewing room or behind the line. Do people review the camera tapes?

4. Event scheduling and notification. It's completely unacceptable to have an entire range closed, particularly when it's closed for use by non members, without any indication on the website. I can't think of a single reason why several lanes couldn't have been kept open for paying members.

Maybe the club has so many members, this doesn't really matter. To me, it does. If these issues were addressed, I'd probably renew my membership and deal with the minor issues. I suppose I could go on, but those are the main points. As I stated before, I qualify out to 300 meters twice a year. It burns me that I'm unable to use the range because it's inconvenient for the club. I understand why it's that way, but the restrictions are unrealistic.

 

[ramx50]

I have been a member at MRA for about 2 years and I have seen many improvements being done that have made it a nicer place to go. I am looking forward to the new target carriers as this has been a big problem in the past. I also would like to qualify for more ranges but my schedule has not allowed me to get to MRA with the small window that is offered nor does it let me get to the meetings.

 

[ramx50]

Martlet, I agree with you that the things you ran into need to change.

 

[kendall-op]

Just got back from MRA only a couple people shooting at the loeb range which was clean and yes the heat is out. But I know the club has some problems but with 1500 members and a 24 7 365 there will ALWAYS be something broken but it does get fixed. I like the club because of my crazy work hours. Is the club perfect , no, but a club is only good as its members.One other thing maybe its time that the directors, officers, and board members start getting paid. Just a thought. No I am not a officer just a member.

 

[JGG]

North Shore Club

Martlet is Haverhill too long a ride? HHRG.org is the website. The club is small and you can shoot most days during the week and not even see anyone! Ihis monday is the BOD meeting where you would start. PM me if interested and I could try to show you around.

 

[economist]

I think the problems with MRA primarily are a factor of its size and location. Not to say that things couldn't be better there, but that it is easy to see how a series of events could produce the present results. There are some puzzling rules (e.g., can't load a mag behind the firing line in Loeb, yet people are free to handle guns in the room behind the firing line with only glass separating the two spaces). So, because common sense doesn't necessarily apply I always have the feeling that I am forgetting one rule or another. Add this to the mix of members -- ranging from hyper-vigilant types that love to enforce the rules to the downright scary muzzle-sweeping crowd -- and plenty of nice folks in the middle -- and the result for me is this: if I happen to be in Woburn anyway, and the weather is bad, then I might see if Loeb is uncrowded, and with working facilities. If so, I'll shoot there for a while. I don't bother with the other ranges (more idiosyncratic rules and qualifying issues). In general, I just go to Harvard Sportsmen's Club where there is plenty of space, reasonable rules, and I always seem to meet nice, welcoming people. As usual, give people space and freedom and they tend to be polite, crowd them together and the next thing you know there are tons of rules and people go around scowling at each other.

 

[Martlet]

Martlet is Haverhill too long a ride? HHRG.org is the website. The club is small and you can shoot most days during the week and not even see anyone! Ihis monday is the BOD meeting where you would start. PM me if interested and I could try to show you around.

It's not super far, considering I hunt in that area. I'd have a hard time making it there before closing, though, since it closes at dusk.

It looks like a great club, though. I may check it out as a place for summer shooting.

 

[vellnueve]

I'm going to go ahead and defend my club.

They will take anyone off the street with $125 bucks. No sponsorship required, no NRA membership, no GOAL membership, not even FID or LTC at all.

Why should you need a LTC or FID to be a member? Airguns and archery don't require these things and they are very popular, and just as much a part of the shooting sports as anything else. What about those living in towns where they need to have a membership before they apply for a license?

As a result we have overcrowded ranges, dirt and garbage all over, broken everything.

Members need to police themselves and others. Remember, every member is a range officer.

Just for an example there is no hit in LOEB range for last two weeks.

What?

Safety violation on all ranges, one member bringing six guests, and teaches them how to shoot. I can go on and on.

It is the responsibility of members to enforce club rules. If you come across a violation, you're supposed to get the member's ID number, write up a quick incident report, and slide it under the office door. If you're not willing to do that, then, as Scrivener says, "What you tolerate, you validate. What you put up with, you deserve!

 

[vellnueve]

I stopped going to MRA as well. They are just located in the wrong place for a rifle range. One wrong shot and you are going to hit someone on Rt 128. With that kind of liability, they can't really afford to let many people use their rifle range.

Considering that MRA used to own that part of 128 and beyond, I don't think that they chose a bad location.

 

[vellnueve]

What's the trend? That people pay to shoot at a club, not run it? If the board is too busy with family, full time jobs, etc to run the club, then maybe they should step down?

The point is that every member has the right to run for a board position and to bring up issues and problems at the monthly meetings. If you don't take advantage of this, and don't file incident reports, that's your own fault.

 

[vellnueve]

That's great in theory, but not when you're in the viewing room and "down range" is on the other side of my head.

Then REPORT it!

That's what the incident reports are for. File one, ask them for their member ID or get it from the logbook, and the BOD will look at it (remember, everything is taped)

 

[Martlet]

The point is that every member has the right to run for a board position and to bring up issues and problems at the monthly meetings. If you don't take advantage of this, and don't file incident reports, that's your own fault.

Generally, I resolve issues on my own. I'm not shy. Telling someone what they are doing wrong usually handles the situation. Stating that it's "my fault" that there are problems in the club because I'm unable to be on the BoD is asinine.

 

[vellnueve]

My apologies. Maybe you didn't talk to me at all. Several people walked in the same time I did. I wasn't with them, though.

That was the main issue with sitting on my case. It won't hurt it, but it's pretty disrespectful to sit on someone else's equipment. Then to look at me like I'm a jerk for inconveniencing them when I ask them to move. Too much.

The main reasons I most likely won't renew are probably not unique to me. You should look at them, since others probably feel the same way. Many of us are good members. I use the club infrequently. Mostly just to sight in my rifles. The majority of my shooting I do on base. I sweep the entire range if I'm the last one out. I've referred several members, all of whom have left for similar reasons. I'm quiet, I'm safe, and I like to think I'm pretty friendly.

1. Outside range rules. This isn't anyone's "fault", it's just a policy that may work well for others, but doesn't work well for me. I very rarely can be at MRA at 9am on a Sunday. I have shown up a few times, but they couldn't qualify me for whatever reason. This means that I have never been able to use those ranges.

Occurred to you that it might be just as inconvenient for the guy who does qualifications to be there all the time too? Very few people want to give up their free time to do qualifications. But they are necessary and can also put you on the ranges where you don't have to deal with these other people you seem to complain about a lot.

2. Range conditions. Loeb range and the archery range are really the only ranges I use. Loeb range usually has a problem, whether it's broken or filthy. Maybe it's not always like that and I just seem to hit it on the bad times. You shouldn't have to clean a line before you can use it.

There will always be a lane or two down. Hell, whenever I go the NRA Range (big, very modern indoor range in Fairfax, VA) they always have at least one lane acting up.

3. Range safety. Are members still required to attend a safety course? The gun handling I saw today something I see regularly. It seems people pay attention on the line, but then go to hell in the viewing room or behind the line. Do people review the camera tapes?

The officers will only review tape if YOU FILE INCIDENT REPORTS! Why would you expect someone to sit in a room watching untold hours of tape without having evidence that something needed to be watched?

a

 

[vellnueve]

Generally, I resolve issues on my own. I'm not shy. Telling someone what they are doing wrong usually handles the situation. Stating that it's "my fault" that there are problems in the club because I'm unable to be on the BoD is asinine.

It is your fault. If you want the club officers to take care of something, you need to let them know and give them specifics so they can watch the tape and take action. Stewing about it in private will do nothing but give you coronary disease. If you don't care enough to do that, then don't complain. You've obviously made the choice to leave the club, so it's no longer an issue.

The apparatus for reporting these incidents is in place and is very simple. Member ID (use the logbook if necessary) - short summary of what happened, date and time, and slip it under the office door.

 

[Arioch]

I checjed out the MRA 10 years ago, and decided not to join because of just this sort of problem. Harvard is great!

 

[Admin]

Martlet, I don't know how far of a drive Harvard is for you but as others have said it's a pretty awesome club.

 

[Martlet]

Occurred to you that it might be just as inconvenient for the guy who does qualifications to be there all the time too? Very few people want to give up their free time to do qualifications. But they are necessary and can also put you on the ranges where you don't have to deal with these other people you seem to complain about a lot.

If it's inconvenient for the guy who does qualifications, then they should find someone else. People PAY to use the club. It's not a soup kitchen.

There will always be a lane or two down. Hell, whenever I go the NRA Range (big, very modern indoor range in Fairfax, VA) they always have at least one lane acting up

It's not one lane. Frequently, there are more lanes down than up.

The officers will only review tape if YOU FILE INCIDENT REPORTS! Why would you expect someone to sit in a room watching untold hours of tape without having evidence that something needed to be watched?

Because, judging from many of the comments in this thread, it's a common event.

It is your fault. If you want the club officers to take care of something, you need to let them know and give them specifics so they can watch the tape and take action.

"Problems" isn't limited to "incidents", though that's all you're addressing. I already stated I speak to each incident I encounter. The fact that so many "incidents" take place is indicative of a much larger problem. If you'd rather transfer responsibility to others, then you're part of the problem.

 

[dwarven1]

Martlet, you might check out the Tyngsboro club and Westford Sportsman's Club, too - I've been a guest at both and they seem like nice clubs. Not sure if they're too far for you or not, though.

Good luck in your quest; I'm probably leaving Riverside Gun Club after 20 years because I'm tired of the BS and the limited range hours, too... not to mention the fact that I have to run the SMOKE gauntlet to get to the indoor range. And yes, I've complained, even to the point of making a motion to make the bar smoke-free or to put up a separate entrance, which our Fudd president ignored with a "we talked about it a few months ago; we're not discussing it again".

 

[Martlet]

Martlet, I don't know how far of a drive Harvard is for you but as others have said it's a pretty awesome club.

Unfortunately, it's not that close. I rarely have a significant amount of time to block out for shooting. I'm more of the "oh, I have a spare hour, I'm going shooting" type.

 

[Martlet]

Martlet, you might check out the Tyngsboro club and Westford Sportsman's Club, too - I've been a guest at both and they seem like nice clubs. Not sure if they're too far for you or not, though.

Good luck in your quest; I'm probably leaving Riverside Gun Club after 20 years because I'm tired of the BS and the limited range hours, too... not to mention the fact that I have to run the SMOKE gauntlet to get to the indoor range. And yes, I've complained, even to the point of making a motion to make the bar smoke-free or to put up a separate entrance, which our Fudd president ignored with a "we talked about it a few months ago; we're not discussing it again".

I've complained at the main office of MRA several times. The attitude I received wasn't very pleasant. Yesterday when I complained about Loeb range they were receptive. We'll see if it gets fixed.

 

[Admin]

Unfortunately, it's not that close. I rarely have a significant amount of time to block out for shooting. I'm more of the "oh, I have a spare hour, I'm going shooting" type.

I hear you. I am going to join the Fitchburg club just for that reason. It's 5 minutes from my house.

 

[drgrant]

Having clubs close by is nice, but on the other hand spending a
bit of time driving to avoid BS is probably worth every minute spent
getting there. Even if I lived inside the 128 loop, I'd still be driving
into central MA, the clubs out here generally have less BS with a
few exceptions here and there. Plus some of them are cheap to
maintain a membership at, some are still less than $50 a year. A
lot of guys will have memberships to 2 or more local clubs so they can
go to another club if one is closed or having an event, etc. Then
you have HSC which is easily a "shooters paradise" for most purposes.

-Mike

 

[PMD]

Firstly, I must say Mass Rifle Association (MRA) is a great club.

Does MRA have problems - sure all volunteer based clubs have problems.

I think one of the major problems with gun clubs in general is members with attitude or members who don't give back to a club.

Gun clubs do survive based on membership - the monies paid in dues allow a club to pay for the expenses and improvements that keep the club running - most clubs do not have a paid staff - MRA does not - anything that gets done at MRA on a day to day basis is done by a member on a volunteer basis - the problem is less than 5% of the members volunteer.

MRA is a non profit club - As Massman noted a lot of money has been spent on improvements to date and a lot more money is being spent on future improvements - like a new target retrieval system.

Now it's time for me to go on a rant...

What really pisses me off, is members that love to bitch and complain about how a club is not up to their standard. How the club is going down hill, etc...
These are the same members that say they don't have time to help, the same members that see as problem or a range violation and don't say a word.

Wake up! Step Up!....MRA, like many other clubs is run by volunteers.

If you see a range violation happening - say something to that person (see section RR1.03) - "Safety is of the utmost importace; it is expected that all members who observe anyone using poor judgement or committing an act in violation of the Range Rules remind that person of proper safety procedures."

If a member brings in multiple guests and more than one is on the line - say something (see section RR1.02)"A member may have only one guest on the firing line at a time."


In my opinion MRA and other clubs don't need members with attitude.


Was it a mistake that the event at the Loeb Range was not posted - Yes.
MRA has other outdoor ranges that were open yesterday - Pistol on the Pope Range and for those who qualified - the 50, 100/100yard ranges.

If you want a club to improve - you as a member need to step up.
If you have a problem or suggestion show up at a Board meeting and voice your thoughts/opinions.

If you think you can do a better job than the current Board members - run for office next year - but keep in mind that per the "By Laws" you need to attend three meetings within twelve months prior to nomination papers..


Paul

 

[vellnueve]

People make their own choices on club choice. I like MRA's setup, and although I hate having to single load my carbines on the 100/200 range, the time savings is huge for me. I have very little time as is so it is a great choice for me, but again you make your own choices.