Good Reason to carry, Fresno Student Shot, Killed by Police Officer After Bat Attack

[Admin]

 

[drgrant]

A small part of me thinks that Shitcago could be greatly improved by the
presence of more cougars... especially if a few hundred of them were deployed
into various government office buildings in the city, starting with the mayor's office....

-Mike

 

[rscalzo]

Mass Ayoob and others have documented this

Basically total bs. I'd like to see the actual documentation. That's similar to the old Street Survival book that was popular in the late 70's, early 80's that had a S&W lying on the ground with the decock/safety down as an example of a mistake that cost a LE officer his life. The only problem was that it was later admitted to be staged.

While the disconnect might have helped in a few instances, it has caused more problems than it solved and hasn't been seen to be a great item in LE firearms. If it was, you would see it in the Glock line. Even S&W dropped it as a stock item in their M&P line.

Our left handed officers constantly had the seat belt cause the magazine to be slightly released while operating a motor vehicle. It became second nature for those people to just assume the magazine could be released and they would constantly have to check it when exiting the vehicle. A pain in the a*s. While it wasn't a mag. disconnect problem per sea, it did make the firearm non-functional.

As far as removing it when handling prisoners, I made that a violation of our policy. Removing the magazine when you still had two on your duty belt was just plain stupid. Following the policy of multiple officers and securing the prisoner properly does much more for officer safety.

As far as this incident, it didn't say if the firearm had a magazine disconnect. The magazine could have been dislodged through a strike to the firearm by the bat and maybe one round was fired and that was it for that firearm.

 

[mark056]

Basically total bs.

Well you've got me by the short hairs on this one as I do not have the reference material readily available. The incidents as I recall happened in Salt Lake City and several times with the Illinois State Police back when the S&W Model 39 was standard issue with both agencies. I believe it was in his book The Semi-Automatic Pistol in Police Service and Self-Defense. Now I know that Ayoob's luster has faded somewhat in recent years (see the recent thread on him) but he was one of the first modern law enforcement trainers who gained a national following and a leading advocate from going from the revolver to the semi-auto back in the 80's. I am assuming (a dangerous word) that he accurately reported the incidents, I cannot fault the logic behind it.

I still think it is a debatable point, but you are the one with the badge and you and your subordinate officers have to live with the tactics that you are comfortable with and more importantly from your experience which is something I respect. From what I have observed over the years you have contributed to this forum, you think most things are bs (again based on your experience)...so whatever works for you, who am I to say otherwise? You are on the Job I am not. You are also correct that we don't know what kind of weapon the Fresno officer had, and whether it had a magazine disconnect or not. In any case that point is moot, the officer had a Plan B and he executed it (no pun intended).

So tell me why so many LEO's in the Northeast that I have dealt with or encountered don't or can't carry a back-up sidearm? I asked this question once to the Top Man (since retired) for the agency that I work for (I work for the Job, and no I am not a wannabe, I never had any intentions of working in the criminal justice system, just a fluke and to this day I am not sure whether it has been a good thing or a bad thing for me; it's my job after my career in the Army) which specifically prohibits a back-up and he said that he understood the question and where I was coming from, "but around here, it's just too controversial."....or is that totally bs too and you all carry a Chief's Special in your pocket?

Mark L.

 

[rscalzo]

Well you've got me by the short hairs on this one

Please don't take it as a hostile response. If it can across that way, I'm at fault.

I'm not saying it NEVER happened. I'm saying it didn't happen enough to overcome the possible negative aspects of the feature. I carried second and third generation S&W SA as did the rest of my department. The feature never failed to work as designed. It's just that it has the definite possibility of causing a problem. For what it's worth, I don't think our experiences with the firearm would have been any better or worse if the feature was not included.

 

[mark056]

Please don't take it as a hostile response. If it can across that way, I'm at fault.

I was using "Got me by the short hairs" as a figure of speech. I did not take your reply to be hostile...you are an upfront and stand-up guy who knows what works for you which I respect. Thank you for serving your community.

Mark L.

 

[drew]

I never understood, why a police dept. would stop its Officers from protecting themselves to the extent where deadly force was needed, by not letting them carry a backup...... It might be beneficial to the officer to maybe carry one any-way. The whole "tried by twelve, instead of carried by six" theory....