Gold and silver prices are down

[Individualist]

Where do you guys recommend selling small amounts ($1-5K) of PMs these days? If not individually FTF through a forum or CL is there a benefit selling to a dealer in southern NH vs MA vs online?

 

[Varmint]

$1616 is the level we need to get through. If we can close above $1616, we'll probably shoot straight to $1690. At that point, $1400 gold will be a distant memory that you'll never see again.

But I feel like we're gonna go back and test $1540 first.

$1691 was the high.

 

[clampett]

Where do you guys recommend selling small amounts ($1-5K) of PMs these days? If not individually FTF through a forum or CL is there a benefit selling to a dealer in southern NH vs MA vs online?

Right here. I sold a couple of oz by posting them for sale in this thread.
Or check out Boston Bullion's web site, they list the price that they will pay. They are located in Burlington.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Where do you guys recommend selling small amounts ($1-5K) of PMs these days?

Post in NES Classifieds -- better to sell FTF to a fellow NESer than accept a dealer's "buy" price.

 

[DJBrad]

Post in NES Classifieds -- better to sell FTF to a fellow NESer than accept a dealer's "buy" price.

Agreed and while Ebay now charges tax diminishing returns, using a Fed Ex signature 1-2 day air with insurance for double cost is also a good way when gold hits close to $2k again.

 

[Varmint]

Wow, was so busy at work I didn't see the action til after close, but crazy day.

The stock market decline still looks very organized and measured - there's no real panic selling yet. Gold & silver sold off too, probably profit taking.

We're at like 7.5% correction in stocks - when it hits 10% watch for the Fed to act.

 

[ASHDUMP]

I was about to buy my yearly silver from Apmex on eBay and forgot about the tax situation. I backed out of the order when tax was going to be $30 bucks. Just can't stomach paying tax on f***ing currency.

What are you guys doing for this? Where can I physically go to buy silver? I specifically need 2020 silver.

 

[Kevin_NH]

What are you guys doing for this? Where can I physically go to buy silver? I specifically need 2020 silver.

Can you combine orders with somebody to get above the $1K threshold? I hear a lot of MA use tax evaders either buy at the dealers/shows (Nashua, or Manchester in April) up across the NH border, or get a shipping address here and change one credit card billing address to NH.

 

[richc]

It seems to vary by seller. Sellers set the rules for tax collection.

In my experience if you order multiple of the same item to exceed $1000 there's no tax. But I also saw examples where different items on the same order, although they exceeded $1000 in total order amount, were taxed.

It's messed up.

I was about to buy my yearly silver from Apmex on eBay and forgot about the tax situation. I backed out of the order when tax was going to be $30 bucks. Just can't stomach paying tax on f***ing currency.

What are you guys doing for this? Where can I physically go to buy silver? I specifically need 2020 silver.

 

[Varmint]

I was about to buy my yearly silver from Apmex on eBay and forgot about the tax situation. I backed out of the order when tax was going to be $30 bucks. Just can't stomach paying tax on f***ing currency.

What are you guys doing for this? Where can I physically go to buy silver? I specifically need 2020 silver.

If you have Ebay bucks that offsets the tax. They haven't been doing 10% Bucks the last month or so, but it was 8% a couple days ago.

Or buy over $1000. Apmex says they'll refund the tax if you're charged incorrectly.

 

[Varmint]

It seems to vary by seller. Sellers set the rules for tax collection.

In my experience if you order multiple of the same item to exceed $1000 there's no tax. But I also saw examples where different items on the same order, although they exceeded $1000 in total order amount, were taxed.

It's messed up.

The only Ebay vendor I know who does it correctly (no tax on multiple items if they total $1000+) is Bay Precious Metals, who are Mass based and know the laws. Apmex and MCM said they'd look into it when I emailed them but haven't fixed it.

 

[richc]

Gold and silver getting crushed today. Seems strange for an asset generally accumulate during times of risk.

Any thoughts on why?

 

[Rat187]

Mega buck weasels manipulating the metals market. As always

 

[Win]

The speculation that I'm reading on twitter from the investors that I follow is that PMs are falling as people are forced to sell to meet margin calls. They think it's a good buying opportunity for those who have cash.

 

[LuvDog]

I was wondering if it's falling because of the lockdown and lack of buying from China.

 

[Varmint]

Mega buck weasels manipulating the metals market. As always

no, no, no!

it's because many of the investors that own the S&P500 own it on margin. They also own gold ETFs. So when the margin calls come, they sell whatever they have, especially what's gone way up recently. That's Gold.

silver is separate, it's being sold off cause it's viewed as an industrial metal by many investors and those are tanking.

 

[Varmint]

I was wondering if it's falling because of the lockdown and lack of buying from China.

The lockdown in China is certainly hurting gold buying, but you have a lot fear-based physical gold buying that is making up for it.

I think gold just ran up really far $1690!! and is correcting. Gold/silver mining stocks are crashing however - this is panic selling - a lot of these stocks are not owned by gold/silver bugs, they're owned by momentum traders, who are getting killed right now, and are selling everything as fast as they can. Some of the best gold mining stocks have dropped 50% in a couple days - I got some crazy good deals this morning just by putting in orders at multi-year lows and hoping they got filled. Several did and are already up 20-30% since this morning - but I think we may see an even bigger crash before 4 pm today.

 

[Varmint]

The speculation that I'm reading on twitter from the investors that I follow is that PMs are falling as people are forced to sell to meet margin calls. They think it's a good buying opportunity for those who have cash.

I think a lot of people confuse physical metals and the ETFs - very different buyers for the two. People aren't selling physical gold to meet margin calls, they're selling the ETFs, but I think even that's not true, they're selling gold mining stocks and ETFs, not the gold ETF, which is only down to where it was a week or two ago. Gold miners have lost 1-2 years of huge gains in 2 days - that's panic selling by momentum traders, due to margin calls or just needing cash.

 

[richc]

A buddy, who I've mentioned before, has more degrees from MIT than I have IQ points. His last was a Phd in business from MIT Sloan.

He sold millions of dollars in stock this morning. He's not out but massively reduced his exposure.

He fears some liquidity lockups from banks coming up. He's on fence about selling more.

FYI some of the names he sold he's held for decades. He's not an active trader.

One man's opinion...

 

[Win]

A buddy, who I've mentioned before, has more degrees from MIT than I have IQ points. His last was a Phd in business from MIT Sloan.

He sold millions of dollars in stock this morning. He's not out but massively reduced his exposure.

He fears some liquidity lockups from banks coming up. He's on fence about selling more.

FYI some of the names he sold he's held for decades. He's not an active trader.

One man's opinion...

Liquidity like we can’t get money out or we can only get money in limited amounts? Is that what mean?

 

[Varmint]

Liquidity like we can’t get money out or we can only get money in limited amounts? Is that what mean?

He's talking more about the money supply in the financial system. The Fed REPO program is pumping money into the overnight banking system because banks don't have the money to lend, or don't want to lend at the current interest rates.
Part of the problem is government regulations that makes banks tie up their money and not able to lend it.

One of the major reasons for the $60 billion/day REPO program is that hedge funds aren't able to get the money they use to make leveraged bets on the market. Banks don't want to lend them money at today's low rates. So the Fed is supporting hedge funds which cheap overnight loans.

that's how bad things have gotten, that the Fed has to support hedge funds. Not cause they like hedge funds but because if they go under, the market will crash.

 

[Brewer]

I have several gold Maple Leafs to sell at spot, FTF in Central MA, will bring a Sigma Metalytics Pro. Posting here before the classifieds since I figure the bugs are following. PM for further details.

 

[richc]

Banks are middlemen. They take in deposits and then loan it out. It's how they pay their bills.

What happens if a major international event causes large financial issues such that those who have taken out loans are unable to make monthly loan payments, or payoff a loan when due. Banks being smart folks likely would not want to roll over a loan to an organization that's at risk. So the bank ends up with a bad debt and possibly lots of them.

Now you and a bunch of other bank customers show up asking for your money when the bank isn't able to get paid from their loan customers. Rock meet hard place. That's a liquidity event.

In China there's a big mess going on. I mentioned somewhere else that many businesses are closed or trying to reopen. Historically during the Chinese New Year at the end of January many factory workers go home but about 15% tend not to come back. This year it's much, much higher. There's a worker shortage in the factories. And that's causing operational problems.

Smaller manufacturers don't have the capital to withstand any disruptions long term. Unless they're running at capacity they aren't profitable. They are sucking wind and can't pay back their loans. And in some cases aren't able to fund the costs of getting up and running again after the long layoff.

What happens if/when we get coronavirus here in the US? What happens at brick and mortar retail, restaurants, travel like airplane, train and bus, vacation spots and cruises, entertainment venues, large ticket sales (home and auto sales) and so much more? The economy freezes up. People won't spend. And the same cycle that's happening in China happens here. Liquidity dries up.

And what happens to the stock market under these conditions? That's why my buddy sold. He is in fear of this type of event. He sold equities he's held for twenty years or more. That's just one man's opinion but he's worried.

Us consumers can be rational beings. IMHO any substantial increase in coronavirus cases around the US will have a serious impact on consumer spending. And IIRC consumer spending is about 70% of our GDP.

Liquidity like we can’t get money out or we can only get money in limited amounts? Is that what mean?

 

[Varmint]

Banks are middlemen. They take in deposits and then loan it out. It's how they pay their bills.

What happens if a major international event causes large financial issues such that those who have taken out loans are unable to make monthly loan payments, or payoff a loan when due. Banks being smart folks likely would not want to roll over a loan to an organization that's at risk. So the bank ends up with a bad debt and possibly lots of them.

Now you and a bunch of other bank customers show up asking for your money when the bank isn't able to get paid from their loan customers. Rock meet hard place. That's a liquidity event.

In China there's a big mess going on. I mentioned somewhere else that many businesses are closed or trying to reopen. Historically during the Chinese New Year at the end of January many factory workers go home but about 15% tend not to come back. This year it's much, much higher. There's a worker shortage in the factories. And that's causing operational problems.

Smaller manufacturers don't have the capital to withstand any disruptions long term. Unless they're running at capacity they aren't profitable. They are sucking wind and can't pay back their loans. And in some cases aren't able to fund the costs of getting up and running again after the long layoff.

What happens if/when we get coronavirus here in the US? What happens at brick and mortar retail, restaurants, travel like airplane, train and bus, vacation spots and cruises, entertainment venues, large ticket sales (home and auto sales) and so much more? The economy freezes up. People won't spend. And the same cycle that's happening in China happens here. Liquidity dries up.

And what happens to the stock market under these conditions? That's why my buddy sold. He is in fear of this type of event. He sold equities he's held for twenty years or more. That's just one man's opinion but he's worried.

Us consumers can be rational beings. IMHO any substantial increase in coronavirus cases around the US will have a serious impact on consumer spending. And IIRC consumer spending is about 70% of our GDP.

Great explanation of what is to come here and in China. There is SO much debt in China that you can't possibly avoid a debt/liquidity crisis.

This is why you want to own gold - the central banks of the world will respond to these events with massive monetary stimulus - it won't just be low rates or bank stimulus, you'll see tax rebates, they'll pay off student loans - anything they can think of to get people spending again.

Gold hasn't been going up cause of coronavirus or Iran fears, inflation or any of the traditional causes - it's because of the central bank jubilee that they know is coming - the virus is just the trigger for an event that was unavoidable due to years of massive government debt spending and easy interest rate policy.

 

[fencer]

A buddy, who I've mentioned before, has more degrees from MIT than I have IQ points. His last was a Phd in business from MIT Sloan.

He sold millions of dollars in stock this morning. He's not out but massively reduced his exposure.

He fears some liquidity lockups from banks coming up. He's on fence about selling more.

FYI some of the names he sold he's held for decades. He's not an active trader.

One man's opinion...

How old is he? I have begun to be a little less risk tolerant since I have passed 50, but 15 years is still a long way off.

I will say that yesterday, I was at a Walgreens pharmacy and was very surprised at all of the empty shelf space. I had also received an quote request from a customer earlier in the week, who buys a lot of product from mainland china. He is scrambling because he won't see any product at all this year. It really made me think about how this crisis will effect the markets and the economy.
I have always believed that gold and silver were a good idea, regardless of market conditions, as part of an overall approach. And when stocks take a hit I look at it like buying them on sale, because of my age. But I have always liked the feeling of security one gets when physically owning precious metals. But now I am getting a little squirrely about holding it. I don't trust banks and safety deposit boxes. What are you going to do if they lock their doors?

I am really not a tinfoil hat type of guy. I think I am reasonably prepared, but not a prepper per se. But have decided to beef up my PM on hand. I have also decided to increase the amount of brass and lead on hand. Maybe I am being overly cautious, but a little more PM, a few more bags of rice, and a lot more ammo really isn't going to have a huge impact in my financial planning. I can live with that.

 

[Varmint]

How old is he? I have begun to be a little less risk tolerant since I have passed 50, but 15 years is still a long way off.

I will say that yesterday, I was at a Walgreens pharmacy and was very surprised at all of the empty shelf space. I had also received an quote request from a customer earlier in the week, who buys a lot of product from mainland china. He is scrambling because he won't see any product at all this year. It really made me think about how this crisis will effect the markets and the economy.
I have always believed that gold and silver were a good idea, regardless of market conditions, as part of an overall approach. And when stocks take a hit I look at it like buying them on sale, because of my age. But I have always liked the feeling of security one gets when physically owning precious metals. But now I am getting a little squirrely about holding it. I don't trust banks and safety deposit boxes. What are you going to do if they lock their doors?

I am really not a tinfoil hat type of guy. I think I am reasonably prepared, but not a prepper per se. But have decided to beef up my PM on hand. I have also decided to increase the amount of brass and lead on hand. Maybe I am being overly cautious, but a little more PM, a few more bags of rice, and a lot more ammo really isn't going to have a huge impact in my financial planning. I can live with that.

You could do what I do - since I didn't have any, I bought a bunch of physical gold and silver from 2016-2019, just to have insurance money for worst case scenario, and to pass on something cool to my kids. But my investment money i put into gold & silver mining stocks - because I don't think a massive collapse is coming where all your stocks will be worthless and we'll go back to bartering chickens for toilet paper. So I don't mind most of my money still being in financial assets. I do think that the central banks will wreck the fiat currencies, and a gold mining company has hard assets in the ground, and will benefit hugely. So it's sort of a way of buying hard assets while still being in an investment account.

I know you can buy PMs in an IRA, but I like gold and silver mining stocks cause you get so much leverage to the price of gold. If gold goes to $2000 you'll make 15% off GLD, but 1000% off a good mining stock.

 

[fencer]

You could do what I do - since I didn't have any, I bought a bunch of physical gold and silver from 2016-2019, just to have insurance money for worst case scenario, and to pass on something cool to my kids. But my investment money i put into gold & silver mining stocks - because I don't think a massive collapse is coming where all your stocks will be worthless and we'll go back to bartering chickens for toilet paper. So I don't mind most of my money still being in financial assets. I do think that the central banks will wreck the fiat currencies, and a gold mining company has hard assets in the ground, and will benefit hugely. So it's sort of a way of buying hard assets while still being in an investment account.

I know you can buy PMs in an IRA, but I like gold and silver mining stocks cause you get so much leverage to the price of gold. If gold goes to $2000 you'll make 15% off GLD, but 1000% off a good mining stock.

I do have some mining stock as part of my overall strategy, but started buying a little bit of physical gold and silver every year, a long time ago. My first purchase was under $600 per ounce. But now, decades later, I worry about physical possession. It's not like most homeowners have the security of a bank at home.

 

[Varmint]

I do have some mining stock as part of my overall strategy, but started buying a little bit of physical gold and silver every year, a long time ago. My first purchase was under $600 per ounce. But now, decades later, I worry about physical possession. It's not like most homeowners have the security of a bank at home.

gold is nice cause 10 gold coins is enough to save your family if you ever need to GTFO of Dodge, and you can hide it anywhere.

 

[richc]

He's in his early 70's. And a true curmudgeon. A brilliant guy who does not suffer fools gladly.

He can be challenging to get along with. But I have enough of his respect I can call him on his BS when needed. It's an opening I use sparingly but every once in a while...

And I learn something from him during every conversation.

How old is he? I have begun to be a little less risk tolerant since I have passed 50, but 15 years is still a long way off.

I will say that yesterday, I was at a Walgreens pharmacy and was very surprised at all of the empty shelf space. I had also received an quote request from a customer earlier in the week, who buys a lot of product from mainland china. He is scrambling because he won't see any product at all this year. It really made me think about how this crisis will effect the markets and the economy.
I have always believed that gold and silver were a good idea, regardless of market conditions, as part of an overall approach. And when stocks take a hit I look at it like buying them on sale, because of my age. But I have always liked the feeling of security one gets when physically owning precious metals. But now I am getting a little squirrely about holding it. I don't trust banks and safety deposit boxes. What are you going to do if they lock their doors?

I am really not a tinfoil hat type of guy. I think I am reasonably prepared, but not a prepper per se. But have decided to beef up my PM on hand. I have also decided to increase the amount of brass and lead on hand. Maybe I am being overly cautious, but a little more PM, a few more bags of rice, and a lot more ammo really isn't going to have a huge impact in my financial planning. I can live with that.

 

[richc]

Gold and silver like the February rate cut!