Going hiking in NH; permit hasn't arrived yet. Sooo...

[scatter]

23rd wedding anniversary coming up this weekend! We're headed up to Conway NH for some power-geocaching and a trip up Mt. Washington (yeah, we're real romantic, but we get along good ). It was a late decision, and I searched and realized that I can't carry concealed in NH (I've got an unrestricted LTC-A in MA, and non-res permits from UT and FL, and a non-res permit from AZ on its way--and forgive me for not knowing the neighboring state rules, but we're new here). So I mailed off my NH non-res application yesterday but there's no way I'll have it by Sunday. Soooo...

The NH law says that I can carry openly and loaded (I would rather not), or carry concealed and unloaded. Any opinions on how NH defines "unloaded"? Can I have a loaded magazine on my person but not inserted in the mag well? I've spent quite a bit of time researching this and can't find any definitive answers.

Thanks, and hello again.
-scatter

 

[Jose]

Carry openly. WTF

 

[dlarge]

You were planning on carrying a gun concealed unloaded? Why?

You're going hiking. OC will be fine.

 

[whatluck]

Can I have a loaded magazine on my person but not inserted in the mag well?

Yes. That would be ok.

 

[Jose]

Yes. That would be ok.

Legally OK. But it is an extremely stupid idea from a realistic point of view.

 

[whatluck]

Legally OK. But it is an extremely stupid idea from a realistic point of view.

I don't disagree, I was just answering the question. When I backpack in NH I OC my 360PD with 158Gr SJHPs.

It's mostly for two legged critters.

 

[ACB84]

New Hampshire honors Utah ccw permit

 

[hpm]

Legally OK. But it is an extremely stupid idea from a realistic point of view.

^^^^This - why carry an unloaded gun while hiking?

 

[Jose]

New Hampshire honors Utah ccw permit

Only if you are a resident of Utah.

Betcha you didn't know that NH is one of the seven states that does not honor non-resident permits from other states.

 

[Boghog1]

New Hampshire honors Utah ccw permit

not a non resident
http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/ssb/permitslicensing/plupr.html
PLEASE NOTE: The State of New Hampshire will only recognize resident concealed handgun licenses from these states.
Alabama Louisiana
Alaska Michigan
Arizona *
Missouri
Arkansas
Mississippi
Colorado North Carolina
Florida North Dakota
Georgia Oklahoma
Idaho Pennsylvania
Indiana Tennessee
Iowa Utah
Kentucky Wyoming

 

[SSShooter]

I mailed my application on Friday 7/29 and it was issued 8/1. Unfortunately the postmark on it was 8/9, but if they gets yours into the mail quicker, you could possibly get it in time.

But if you don't, just open carry. It's more comfortable hiking anyway.

 

[Reptile]

Can I carry concealed and unloaded while driving? I am too lazy to stow my gun while I drive through to my destination.

 

[SSShooter]

Can I carry concealed and unloaded while driving? I am too lazy to stow my gun while I drive through to my destination.

In a car = concealed in NH, even if it is plain sight. Unloaded you are GTG.

 

[Jose]

Can I carry concealed and unloaded while driving? I am too lazy to stow my gun while I drive through to my destination.

Are you for real?

 

[drgrant]

In a car = concealed in NH, even if it is plain sight.

FWIW the law does not actually specify this- because if it did there would be a way of carrying a gun openly in a car loaded and "unconcealed".
"
The way the law is set up is motor vehicle loaded carry of a pistol/revolver in NH is illegal. "Unless you have a P/R license " happens to be an exception to that law.

I'm not sure where this "in a car is concealed" thing started, but it's bad/fake. That statement leads people who look at different states' laws into thinking that somehow they can
fulfill that requirement without a license and still have a loaded gun in their car. I think FL or TX has a law that works that way, but that certainly isn't the case in NH.

-Mike

 

[scatter]

I'm pretty familiar with the laws. I know that none of my non-res permits, including the "in the mail" AZ, are honored in NH. I would much rather carry concealed and unloaded with a mag in my pocket than break the law, despite what I might think of the law. The reason is, if I need to draw, shoot and hit in less time than I can load, rack and shoot, I'm probably dead anyway. I don't currently have the skills to draw and shoot quickly enough for that to make a big difference. YMMV. But if I see a need developing, I can take the gun out of my CCW holster (so now it's OPEN CARRY), insert the mag, rack the slide and keep the gun in my hand until I need it or I quit needing it. I don't think that's stupid, just a different opinion than some.

 

[drgrant]

I'm pretty familiar with the laws. I know that none of my non-res permits, including the "in the mail" AZ, are honored in NH. I would much rather carry concealed and unloaded with a mag in my pocket than break the law, despite what I might think of the law. The reason is, if I need to draw, shoot and hit in less time than I can load, rack and shoot, I'm probably dead anyway. I don't currently have the skills to draw and shoot quickly enough for that to make a big difference. YMMV. But if I see a need developing, I can take the gun out of my CCW holster (so now it's OPEN CARRY), insert the mag, rack the slide and keep the gun in my hand until I need it or I quit needing it. I don't think that's stupid, just a different opinion than some.

If you're going to do that you might as well just leave the gun at home and put a rock in your holster. Or get a can of OC or bear spray instead. (cooking spices are totally unregulated in NH).

-Mike

 

[scatter]

Roger. Thanks.

 

[dlarge]

At the very least, you could keep the magazine in the gun and the gun de-cocked... You won't get the +1 but apparently you're not comfortable with a "loaded" gun on your person?

 

[Mike_]

I would much rather carry concealed and unloaded with a mag in my pocket than break the law, despite what I might think of the law.

I don't understand - you could just open carry - which is not breaking the law - and have a gun you can get to. You're hiking - not walking down main street.

 

[scatter]

I am very comfortable carrying a loaded gun on my person. I do it daily here in MA. I'm not comfortable with breaking the law. I don't think having a full magazine inserted meets the NH definition of "unloaded," regardless of whether there's one in the chamber or not. If I had my NH permit I would carry loaded and concealed in a heartbeat. But I don't, so I'm trying to figure out the range of risk and reward options.

 

[drgrant]

If you doubt the legal validity of OC in NH watch any number of FSP people on youtube like Ridley, et al, interacting with LEOs. Permit-less, open carry by pedestrians in NH is legal! If they can't get the LEOs to arrest them (when sometimes they're practically baiting them into doing it) then any "normal" person won't have much trouble.

-Mike

 

[dancha84]

open carry and loaded in new hampshire is NOT illegal!

 

[Mike_]

IANAL but

159:4 Carrying Without License. – No person shall carry a loaded pistol or revolver in any vehicle or concealed upon his person, except in his dwelling, house or place of business, without a valid license therefor as hereinafter provided. A loaded pistol or revolver shall include any pistol or revolver with a magazine, cylinder, chamber or clip in which there are loaded cartridges. Whoever violates the provisions of this section shall, for the first such offense, be guilty of a misdemeanor. For the second and for each subsequent violation of the provisions of this section, such person shall be guilty of a class B felony, provided such second or subsequent violation has occurred within 7 years of the previous conviction.

 

[drgrant]

Yeah, most of us here get that. An NH P/R license is only required for two things:

-Carrying a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle.

-Carrying a loaded, CONCEALED handgun on your person.

While the law doesn't appear to define "concealed", I think the "reasonable person" principle likely applies. If it's not readily apparent to a casual observer that you're packing, someone might consider that "concealed".

-Mike

 

[scatter]

Guys--I understand that I can legally OC in NH. I will do that if I don't have a better option. I would RATHER CCW, but I haven't received that permit yet, and probably won't receive it in time. So, trying to stay within the law--can I legally carry a concealed gun, unloaded, with a loaded mag on my person? I'm just looking for people who might have experience with this; not trying to challenge any principles here.

 

[Kevlar]

...can I legally carry a concealed gun, unloaded, with a loaded mag on my person?...

I would say no, because the statute (as well as at least one Superior Court decision) indicates that possession of loaded magazines constitutes possession of a loaded handgun...

...A loaded pistol or revolver shall include any pistol or revolver with a magazine, cylinder, chamber or clip in which there are loaded cartridges...

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-4.htm

The definition of a loaded and concealed pistol or revolver MAY include loaded clips or magazines. This matter has not been decided by the New Hampshire Supreme Court to the best of my knowledge, however, currently it is my understanding that at least one Superior Court has decided that an individual in possession of a new pistol and two loaded magazines was carrying a concealed firearm without a license when he had the pistol and magazines on the seat of his car...

http://gonh.org/uploads/images/29/FAQ_3-9-10.pdf

IANAL and YMMV.

 

[dcmdon]

Just OC. I've done it in rural areas of both NH and VT and never even had anyone look twice at the gun.

 

[Jose]

The reason is, if I need to draw, shoot and hit in less time than I can load, rack and shoot, I'm probably dead anyway. I don't currently have the skills to draw and shoot quickly enough for that to make a big difference.

You need to stop carrying a gun then. You've already defeated yourself.

Why are you even carrying a pistol in MA? How much training time have you put into mastering a handgun?

My guess is nowhere near enough.

 

[KBCraig]

Guys--I understand that I can legally OC in NH. I will do that if I don't have a better option.

OC is the better option.

I would RATHER CCW, but I haven't received that permit yet, and probably won't receive it in time.

Okay, if that's your preference, then that's your preference. It makes little sense to me, even in "touristy" North Conway, and makes none at all for hiking on the trails. You won't get a second look. You certainly won't get a negative reaction from police.

So, trying to stay within the law--can I legally carry a concealed gun, unloaded, with a loaded mag on my person?

Because of the ambiguous case law (cited above), you're probably at some legal risk when carrying unloaded and concealed while in possession of a loaded magazine. Not much risk, perhaps, but contrast that with being at zero legal risk while open carrying.