GOAL's Argument FOR the incorporation of the 2nd Amendment.

Mike S

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From Jim Wallace. This is going to get interesting. Jim has come up with a compelling argument that makes people recognize the 2nd amendment for what it is, a right equal to the freedom of speech, or the right for women to vote.

To stand against this argument you would have to stand against the other equally important rights granted by our Constitution.

The article,

Massachusetts Attorney General and District Attorneys Argue to Block Bill of Rights

Recently the Massachusetts Attorney General filed what is called an Amici Curiae (friend of the court brief) in the case of Commonwealth v. Richard Runyan. The brief is signed on to by a host of district attorneys and state officials. This is a case that is going before the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court regarding the Massachusetts firearm storage laws. In typical fashion of what we have come to expect of our state officials, the brief is full of support for state restrictions on innocent lawful citizens and an outright objection that the Second Amendment applies to the states.
One of the arguments from state officials is that the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) has never incorporated the Second Amendment through the Fourteenth Amendment (adopted in 1868) thus the states are free to abuse their citizens as they see fit.

For those who are not aware of what “incorporation” refers to, it refers to the process by which the Bill of Rights is applied to the states through what is called the “Due Process Clause” of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Throughout history the Bill of Rights has been incrementally incorporated. In other words, the entire Bill of Rights has not yet been established as protecting citizens against state governments. In fact it was years, even decades, after the Fourteenth Amendment before citizen’s civil rights were being protected from state governments. This history lesson is critical when reading the arguments of state officials who still wish to trample on the civil rights of lawful citizens.
In Attorney General Martha Coakley’s Amicus Brief she, like so many before, selectively chose to use ancient Supreme Court rulings in arguing against civil rights. As in so many writings of officials who attempt to subdue Second Amendment rights, she uses two well known cases as examples. In her brief she states: “For over 120 years it has been established that the Second Amendment is not incorporated through the Fourteenth Amendment and, thus, does not restrict the authority of the states to regulate firearms.”

It is important to keep in mind that the Bill of Rights was never about regulations. It was about protecting the sacred civil rights of every lawful citizen of United States. So, when state officials argue that certain rights have not been incorporated, what they are actually telling us is that lawful citizens have no federal protection from state official’s tyrannical actions against our civil rights. That is truly the core of the incorporation argument.

The two cases that are continually used to argue the preservation of certain state tyranny in regards to the Second Amendment are United States v. Cruikshank (1876) and Presser v. Illinois (1886). Both cases ruled that in spite of the Fourteenth Amendment passed years before that the Bill of Rights did not apply to the state governments. Specifically, in the Attorney General’s brief, she uses a quote from Cruikshank that regards the Second Amendment as a “means no more than that it shall not be infringed by congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National government.” What the Attorney General, and many before her, continually fail to mention is that this same case ruled against the First Amendment right to assembly. The Cruikshank ruling stated that the First "was not intended to limit the powers of the State governments in respect to their own citizens." In fact the right to assembly under the First Amendment was not incorporated until 1937 nearly seven decades after the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted.

In doing some research on the subject, I came across a Wikipedia article on the case, it can be found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cruikshank

Rather than defend the decision, as does our Attorney General and other public officials, the article actually stated that because of the decision: “In the short term, blacks in the south were left to the mercy of increasingly hostile state governments who did little to protect them. When Democrats regained power in the late 1870’s, they passed legislation (state) making voter registration and elections more complicated, effectively stripping blacks from voter rolls.”
I urge everyone to do a web search on Cruikshank and you will find article after article that blames the decision for the disarming and disenfranchisement of African Americans.

Is this the type of decision that our state officials should be using to defend their position on gun control? Would these state officials still defend the entire decision? If a public official is going to use rulings like Cruikshank to support their policy positions, then they must be held as supporting the entire decision and the consequences of it!

As a further example of how ridiculous it is use to use late 1800’s decision in defending an anti-civil rights policy decision, we must look at how long it took SCOTUS to officially incorporate other parts of the Bill of Rights. Here is a short list of some of our civil rights we take for granted and the year in which they were incorporated:

First Amendment
Freedom of Religion 1940
Freedom of Speech 1925
Freedom of the Press 1931
Freedom of Assembly 1937

Third Amendment (Quartering of Soldiers in Private Homes)
Has NOT been incorporated.
Fourth Amendment
Unreasonable Search and Seizure 1961 (Had been ruled to not be incorporated as late as 1949.)
Fifth Amendment
Double Jeopardy 1969
Self Incrimination 1964
Sixth Amendment
Speedy Trial 1967
Public Trial 1948
Trial by Impartial Jury 1971
Right to Council 1963
Eighth Amendment
Protection Against Excessive Bail 1982

And it goes on. How many people actually know that the 1970’s Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) never made it to the Bill of Rights because the states failed to ratify it? If our Attorney General and other state officials stand behind their argument, then they certainly wouldn’t support any of the issues in the ERA since it was never even ratified.
If we are to logically apply the Attorney General’s use of Presser and Cruikshank should we soon expect that Massachusetts will begin quartering National Guard persons in our homes because the Third Amendment has not been incorporated? Also lest we forget, that a woman’s right to vote (Nineteenth Amendment) was not part of the Bill of Rights until 1920.
The history lesson here is that it took nearly a century after Fourteenth Amendment for SCOTUS to officially recognize most of our civil rights as protecting us from our own state governments. The certainty is that one by one SCOTUS has in fact given protection to citizens from their own state governments. For sure the court has been painstakingly slow and very deliberate, but it has done it. To use 120 year old anti-civil rights case law to defend a draconian position on gun control speaks volumes about those who support such stances.

Why is this history lesson of incorporation so important? Simply put, every citizen should keep the following in mind. Any person, and especially public officials, that use the incorporation argument to defend a policy position is in fact defending that position via the exclusion of the Bill of Rights. Clearly stated, the people using that argument are in fact supporting a position to keep the Bill of Rights from applying to the citizens of the states. By fighting to keep the Bill of Rights from applying to certain citizens can only mean they are anti-civil rights activists.

For years, I have told our members that the people fighting against our Second Amendment Rights are not anti-gun, but in fact are anti-civil rights extremists. The fairly new incorporation argument against the Bill of Rights, and especially the Second Amendment, has proven that I was correct. The people supporting this argument can try to spin it anyway they want, but the plain fact is that anyone who fights against incorporation itself or uses the incorporation argument against certain rights is in fact anti-civil rights.

Sadly, we can count among the anti-civil rights activists those public officials that have signed on to the Runyan Amicus Brief. If the signers object to being honestly labeled, perhaps they should be more aware of what they sign their names to.

They are:
Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley
Berkshire District Attorney David Capeless
Bristol County District Attorney C. Samuel Sutter
Cape & Islands District Attorney Michael O’Keefe
Essex County District Attorney Jonathan Blodgett
Hampden County District Attorney William Bennett
Middle District Attorney Joseph Early
Norfolk District Attorney William Keating
Northwestern District Attorney Elizabeth Scheibel
Plymouth District Attorney Timothy Cruz
Suffolk District Attorney Daniel Conley
The Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety and Security
The Massachusetts Executive Office of Health and Human Services
The Massachusetts Department of Public Health

More articles on Cruiksank:
U.S. v. Cruikshank: 1875 - Southern Racism Makes A Comeback

U.S. v. Cruikshank: 1875 - Supreme Court Delivers A Crushing Blow
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United States v. Cruikshank
 
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Good article, but honestly the wikipedia article link should be removed. It doesn't exactly lend credibility. Court records etc should be cited.
 
Good article, but honestly the wikipedia article link should be removed. It doesn't exactly lend credibility. Court records etc should be cited.

+1 wikipedia is a great site, but like TomH said it does not have the credibility.
 
Forgive my ignorance, but I thought Bill of Rights = Amd 1 through Amd 10, no?

Why are women's suffrage and ERA being included in the Bill of Rights here?

a woman’s right to vote (Nineteenth Amendment) was not part of the Bill of Rights until 1920.

...How many people actually know that the 1970’s Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) never made it to the Bill of Rights ...

Is Jim swapping "Bill of Rights" with "Constitution?"
 
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Forgive my ignorance, but I thought Bill of Rights = Amd 1 through Amd 10, no?

Why are women's suffrage and ERA being included in the Bill of Rights here?





Is Jim swapping "Bill of Rights" with "Constitution?"

You are correct. The word "Constitution" should be substituted for "Bill of Rights" in those two instances.

I like Jim's letter. I like it very much. The subtle lesson here is not what he obviously states. Many people interpret the BoR as "giving" us rights. It is actually a re-affirmation of rights we already possess inherently. Think of a sign that says "No Parking." The BoR is like a second sign that says "YES, THIS MEANS YOU!" The second sign just reinforces what the first sign says. Not a great analogy, but I hope people will get the point.

Jim's letter is quite correct in pointing out that the people arguing against incorporation are effectively saying that the civil rights that everyone takes for granted cannot be infringed but only at the Federal level. Using their own argument, any state could deny any right not specifically incorporated by SCOTUS.

It's a ludicrous argument, but really, what other argument can they make? Heller removed their argument that the 2nd only applied to state militias; what other legal straw do they have left to grasp at?

EDIT: In reading Jim's letter again, I noticed this:

To stand against this argument you would have to stand against the other equally important rights granted by our Constitution.

Shouldn't the word 'granted' be changed to 'guaranteed'? I'm not nitpicking but I think it's an important distinction.
 
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You are correct. The word "Constitution" should be substituted for "Bill of Rights" in those two instances.

I like Jim's letter. I like it very much. The subtle lesson here is not what he obviously states. Many people interpret the BoR as "giving" us rights. It is actually a re-affirmation of rights we already possess inherently. Think of a sign that says "No Parking." The BoR is like a second sign that says "YES, THIS MEANS YOU!" The second sign just reinforces what the first sign says. Not a great analogy, but I hope people will get the point.

Jim's letter is quite correct in pointing out that the people arguing against incorporation are effectively saying that the civil rights that everyone takes for granted cannot be infringed but only at the Federal level. Using their own argument, any state could deny any right not specifically incorporated by SCOTUS.

It's a ludicrous argument, but really, what other argument can they make? Heller removed their argument that the 2nd only applied to state militias; what other legal straw do they have left to grasp at?

EDIT: In reading Jim's letter again, I noticed this:



Shouldn't the word 'granted' be changed to 'guaranteed'? I'm not nitpicking but I think it's an important distinction.

Thanks Center,
Couple of things, as far as I know, and please correct me if I am wrong, isn't TBOR the first 10 of 27 amendments of The Constitution and hence one in the same?

For example, the 19th amendment gives women the right to vote, and by all accounts should have been incorporated into the original 10 "Bill or rights" but it was a different age.

My interpretation is that our Constitution GRANTS us these rights, not "gives, or guarantees" them. Once again, please correct me if I am wrong.

I will point out the change that you suggest, I think that is a great point.

Thanks
 
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My interpretation is that our Constitution GRANTS is these rights, not "gives, or guarantees" them. Once again, please correct me if I am wrong.
The Constitution, for the most part grants little, but rather restricts the actions of governments to prevent "infringing upon" rights "endowed by the creater" (in the language of the founders...)

As I've mentioned before - look at the language:

"Shall make no law"
"Shall not be infringed"
"No Soldier shall ... be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner,"
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons... shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue"
"No person ... shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"

There's no "grant" of right there, but rather restriction on government action... It tells the government what they cannot do and identifies the natural right that it is protecting...

Not to get side-tracked from that very important point, but there are other "rights" that are "granted" by the language of the constitution, but the important ones are not "granted", but rather respected "natural rights" by force of law imposed on the GOVERNMENT, not the people...
 
The Constitution, for the most part grants little, but rather restricts the actions of governments to prevent "infringing upon" rights "endowed by the creater" (in the language of the founders...)

As I've mentioned before - look at the language:

"Shall make no law"
"Shall not be infringed"
"No Soldier shall ... be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner,"
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons... shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue"
"No person ... shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"

There's no "grant" of right there, but rather restriction on government action... It tells the government what they cannot do and identifies the natural right that it is protecting...

Not to get side-tracked from that very important point, but there are other "rights" that are "granted" by the language of the constitution, but the important ones are not "granted", but rather respected "natural rights" by force of law imposed on the GOVERNMENT, not the people...

Thanks Mike, that's what I was trying to say. [laugh2]
 
Couple of things, as far as I know, and please correct me if I am wrong, isn't TBOR the first 10 of 27 amendments of The Constitution and hence one in the same?

You are correct, the "Bill of Rights" traditionally is only the first ten amendments that actually passed, or the actual sheet of paper on which the first 12 amendments (with two that weren't ratified) are written. Saying "Amendment X > 10 was added to the Bill of Rights" thus is not really correct. Should be "X was not ratified" or "Amendment X was added to the Constitution".

Might be nitpicking, but if you intend to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with us, nits should be picked.
 
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A constitution is supposed to define those powers that the people are giving to the government to operate in their trust. The US Constitution split the powers into three branches and then delegated specific powers to those branches.

The rights of the people were not included because it was felt that anything not specifically granted in the Constitution to the government was left as a right of the people. (and in extension, the states)

Some felt that this was an omission (and as we can see with our current government who seems to need a "thou shall not" spelled out to know their bounds - they were correct) and fought to have specific enumerated rights added. These became the first amendments which collectively are called the "Bill of Rights", but in effect are a part of the Constitution. Each amendment since is also now an integral part of the document. We refer to them as specific amendments because nobody has rewritten the original document to include them within the main body. Otherwise, we'd be quoting article and section as we do for other parts.

Most people do not understand law. And as we've seen by the comments of elected officials in the past few years, many who are tasked to enforce those laws are unclear. Laws are written to prohibit, not permit. We, by being citizens of the USA and Massachusetts are allowed to do virtually ANYTHING that isn't specifically delegated as a power of the government or infringe on another's right to the same.

What is important to take from Jim's research is not that the basis of our liberty comes from a pre-existing nature, but that very specifically those who are opposed to allowing those liberties are specifically using precedent law that:

1) Became the founding principal for the atrocity known as Jim Crow law.

2) Was overturned by later decisions.

3) Is being presented by those of the SAME political party that abused the original decision in the first place.

4) Do not have any rational, evidentiary, or historical argument regarding the success of the legal position under review.

5) Have no respect at all for a person's rights.

In other words, to hold the position of this argument, the person must in fact wish to violate the very spirit of our legal foundation. I personally see little difference between these acts and those of a common terrorist.
 
It's a ludicrous argument, but really, what other argument can they make?

It's not a ludicrous argument.... if you ignore the 14th amendment and years of caselaw. Previous to cases such as Gitlow v. New York in the 1920s, this was a pretty decent argument.

They probably covered their ears and yelled really loud for the last 80 years, so it must still sound convincing to them.
 
It's not a ludicrous argument.... if you ignore the 14th amendment and years of caselaw. Previous to cases such as Gitlow v. New York in the 1920s, this was a pretty decent argument.

They probably covered their ears and yelled really loud for the last 80 years, so it must still sound convincing to them.

Your last sentance typifies Massachusetts politics.
 
Good article, but honestly the wikipedia article link should be removed. It doesn't exactly lend credibility. Court records etc should be cited.

right. In all colleges, schools, etc students are told that wikipedia is NOT to be considered a valid source of information by nature of the submission of information (by "contributors")
 
The letter/article is just that, an article to be published at the various websites that GOAL has and uses to convey information.

GOAL is filing an amicus brief at the Runyan V. MA. case and I'm sure that parts of this "article" will make it into that brief.

We are also going to be at the state house this fall working to push through many bills including H.2259 our "Civil Rights and Public Safety Bill." Once again, this argument or parts of it will be used to support our case.

Please see our website for more info. or click here.http://goal.org
 
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In typical fashion of what we have come to expect of our state officials,


thus the states are free to abuse their citizens as they see fit.

This history lesson is critical when reading the arguments of state officials who still wish to trample on the civil rights of lawful citizens.

As in so many writings of officials who attempt to subdue Second Amendment rights


For years, I have told our members that the people fighting against our Second Amendment Rights are not anti-gun, but in fact are anti-civil rights extremists.


I would suggest losing the sarcastic rhetoric and stick to the facts. When you add phrases such as above (however true they may be) you have trouble making intelligent legal arguments and instead make yourself look like the extremist.

Just my .02
 
I would suggest losing the sarcastic rhetoric and stick to the facts. When you add phrases such as above (however true they may be) you have trouble making intelligent legal arguments and instead make yourself look like the extremist.

Just my .02

Thanks for the .02, what exactly do you find sarcastic?
 
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Thanks for the .02, what exactly do you find sarcastic?


I quoted them!

If Jim Wallace uses that tone in his Amicus brief to the SJC he will be doing every gun owner in Ma a disservice.
 
For contrast, it might be interesting to look at some extracts of the words and claims used by the antis in their past presentations. I will venture they will be similar in their dramatic effect.
 
For contrast, it might be interesting to look at some extracts of the words and claims used by the antis in their past presentations. I will venture they will be similar in their dramatic effect.
Better yet, look at some prior successful amicus briefs (i.e. those that have been cited in the majority opinion...)

I honestly have no idea what the standard for advocacy at this level is, but I would tend towards HalfCocked's assumption that dispassionate, scholarly and well supported legal arguments are more effective in this forum, given the intellectual snobbery that abounds in the world of Supreme Court Clerks. [wink]

But, if you read any legal writing, you quickly realize that there is a tight-rope balance between "dispassionate" and "not compelling"...

Advocacy is sometimes a subtle art and sometimes very much NOT...
 
I honestly have no idea what the standard for advocacy at this level is, but I would tend towards HalfCocked's assumption that dispassionate, scholarly and well supported legal arguments are more effective in this forum, given the intellectual snobbery that abounds in the world of Supreme Court Clerks. [wink]

Bingo!

I have sat through SJC hearings as I have had a couple of cases rise to that level. They do not respond well to that tone. They want to hear LEGAL arguments not emotional arguments laced with sarcasm.

When it comes to the topic at hand there are plenty of intelligent legal arguments that can be made without having to resort to insulting the parties posing a different argument.

When you have to resort to insults it insinuates that you have no legal arguments and makes you look more like an extremist.
 
EDIT: OOPs, my bad. Never mind!

Might I suggest contacting an attorney or law professor who works in this area and seeing if they might point you in the right direction or provide some thoughts pro bono? National names such as Dave Kopel and Eugene Volokh might at least be able to point out some resources beyond what the premier MA firearms group normally can access.
 
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Mike S, I'm assuming GOAL is retaining counsel with experience in appellate work before the SJC to write their amicus?


TheRoland..... GOAL has already filed an Amicus according to the SJC docket. It states that it was written by Attorney Edward George.

I have not read it though.. which is why I had been asking what the purpose of this particular letter/article was.
 
TheRoland..... GOAL has already filed an Amicus according to the SJC docket. It states that it was written by Attorney Edward George.

I have not read it though.. which is why I had been asking what the purpose of this particular letter/article was.

Oh, my bad. I'll have to track it down. Mike S, any chance this could be posted? It looks like it may have been written mostly by Alan Gura?
 
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I have not received it from Jim to publish. I will try to track it down.

Thanks for the help on this guys.

Jim's article is just that, meant to be shared throughout our various communication networks. It is not what will be presented at SJC. Fear not, that will be dry and boring [laugh]
 
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