Folding collapsible stock question

[crazymjb]

So we all know (most of us do anyway) that Keltec Sub2000s are perfectly legal in Massachusetts.

What are the thoughts on the folding stock adapters for AR15s. They cannot function when the stock is folded.

AR Folding Stock Adapter

Just curious... I wouldn't be worried about using it.

Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

Are you saying that the gun can't function with the folding stock adapter when folded?

I still think there are people out there who'd salivate at the thought of prosecuting someone with it . . . and convincing activist judges and ignorant (about guns) jurors to convict in MA probably wouldn't be that difficult for an aggressive DA.

 

[jasons]

So we all know (most of us do anyway) that Keltec Sub2000s are perfectly legal in Massachusetts.

What are the thoughts on the folding stock adapters for AR15s. They cannot function when the stock is folded.

AR Folding Stock Adapter

Just curious... I wouldn't be worried about using it.

Mike

It's still a rifle with a folding stock. I don't think it would fly legally.

 

[Fattman]

so you can fold it and fire a blank backwards and kill someone with the BCG?

 

[crazymjb]

My point is the sub2000 folds in half and is generally considered MA ok and is sold in shops state wide. Its a semi automatic rifle that takes detachable mags and has a folding stock and pistol grip... however when folded it does not function.

Same goes for this kit, it does not function as a semi-automatic rifle when the stock is folded.

This is pure curiosity.

Mike

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[PappyM3]

Obviously there's the disclaimer of "Nobody knows if it's legal until someone gets arrested and a court decision is made."

However, I would say that it's illegal. You're not going to get multiple shots off with it, but I think it can still fire at least one shot before the bolt carrier flies out the back. And just because it'll break after a shot doesn't change it from being a semi-automatic rifle.

 

[Mike-Mike]

It's still a rifle with a folding stock. I don't think it would fly legally.

It's not a semi-auto rifle with the stock folded.

 

[PappyM3]

It's not a semi-auto rifle with the stock folded.

Sure it is. It's a semi auto rifle that will fall apart after a shot, but I don't think that changes the category the rifle is in.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It's not a semi-auto rifle with the stock folded.

I doubt that a DA would agree with you. Although I understand what you are saying, they have an "agenda" and the ends justify the means for them.

 

[warwickben]

Just thinking out loud what would happen if you fired a ar 15 with one.

I was thinking of buying one just so I could fold it yup for a small bag etc. I figured it was legal cause you'd get hurt bad of you did fire it. Like how fast would that bolt fly out?

 

[crazymjb]

The stock has a lockout so the bolt will jam if fired with the stock open, it wont fly out.

Its not a semi-auto rifle with the stock folded anymlre than the sub2000 is, but the sub2000 has been sold statewide without incident for years.

Did the atf make any rulings during the fed ban on folding guns, etc? The sub2000 was introduced in 2001...

Mike

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[EJFudd]

My point is the sub2000 folds in half and is generally considered MA ok and is sold in shops state wide. Its a semi automatic rifle that takes detachable mags and has a folding stock and pistol grip... however when folded it does not function.

The SUB2000 does not have a folding stock. If anything, you'd have to call it a folding barrel. Not the same thing at all.

 

[2A_Esq.]

I see your logic, but to LenS' point, illegality is a foregone conclusion in this state.

 

[SJan]

It's not a folding stock adapter. (adapter for a folding stock)
It is a folding stock adapter. (folding adapter for a stock)

It could be said that the action is what is folding

 

[OfficerObie59]

Are you saying that the gun can't function with the folding stock adapter when folded?

I still think there are people out there who'd salivate at the thought of prosecuting someone with it . . . and convincing activist judges and ignorant (about guns) jurors to convict in MA probably wouldn't be that difficult for an aggressive DA.

It's still a rifle with a folding stock. I don't think it would fly legally.

I think it's totally legal. The Massachusetts definition of a firearm requires it to be capable of discharging a bullet. If the gun can only discharge a bullet in the state where the stock is fixed, that's the only time it's a firearm and thus capable of being regulated.

Open question ripe for case law.

 

[OfficerObie59]

The SUB2000 does not have a folding stock. If anything, you'd have to call it a folding barrel. Not the same thing at all.

The legal question, as it would seem to me, is whether the folding mechanism is in front of or behind the action.

 

[jasons]

I think it's totally legal. The Massachusetts definition of a firearm requires it to be capable of discharging a bullet. If the gun can only discharge a bullet in the state where the stock is fixed, that's the only time it's a firearm and thus capable of being regulated. Open question ripe for case law.

Pretty sure it would still discharge one bullet. The bolt wouldn't be able to move back so it wouldn't cycle, but if there was one in the chamber it would fire.

 

[jasons]

The legal question, as it would seem to me, is whether the folding mechanism is in front of or behind the action.

Technically it's in the middle.

 

[crazymjb]

The plot thickens...

I think you could draw a logical connection that the Sub2000 was acceptable under the federal assault weapons ban because the action folded, as does the action on the AR15. Yes you could improperly cause it to discharge a single shot (not semi-automatic, not bound by AWB) with the stock folded, but you could do the same by smashing something against the primer on a round in the keltec barrel.

As far as intent of the law, the keltec is CLEARLY meant to be more concealable and was acceptable under the federal AWB, the same could be said for the adapter that folds the ACTION of the AR15, assuming the buffer is remaining housed int eh stock.

Mike