Finns Propose Ban On Handguns After Shootings

Zappa

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http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9DTVFPO1&show_article=1

A Finnish government commission on Wednesday proposed a ban on semiautomatic handguns after two school shootings in recent years left 20 people dead.

The ban, which needs parliamentary approval, would sharply reduce the number of legal weapons in a country that ranks among the world's top five in civilian gun ownership.

"We've had a very weapon-friendly culture," commission chairman Pekka Sauri said. "In carrying out the proposals we would, of course, pay compensation to anyone who turns in weapons."

The Nordic nation of 5.3 million has 650,000 licensed gun owners. Of some 250,000 handguns, more than 200,000 are semiautomatic, according to Sauri.

The recommendation came in a report on an attack in September 2008, when a 22-year-old gunman killed nine fellow students and a teacher before shooting himself at a vocational high school in Kauhajoki, western Finland.

Less than a year earlier, a teenage student fatally shot eight people and himself at Jokela High School in Tuusula, near the capital, Helsinki.

Both school gunmen fired handguns in YouTube clips posted before the shootings, shot themselves in the head and used similar handguns in the massacres. They had both been teased at school and said they hated the human race.

The report said that the gunman in Kauhajoki "used a self-loading or semiautomatic firearm, which was small-caliber but still capable of inflicting serious damage" and recommended that "only guns that do not allow the easy infliction of such carnage be available for hobby purposes."

The commission also said that the minimum age of handgun ownership should be raised from 15 to 20, and that gun permits be made temporary and require at least two year's proof of shooting practice.

After the two shootings, police have clamped down on handgun permits imposing stricter control and tighter scrutiny of permit applicants.

Finland has a long tradition of hunting. It is ranked fifth in civilian gun ownership per capita, after the United States, Yemen, Switzerland and Serbia, the Geneva-based Small Arms Survey said in 2007 in its most recent report on civilian firearms.

Pekka Aho, commission board member and Inspector General of the Finnish Police, lodged a dissenting view on gun ownership in the recommendations of the nine-member commission.

"I believe that the practice of responsible gun sports should be preserved in Finland," Aho said. "This recommendation, however, would not remove illegal semiautomatic handguns in Finland ... and in practice it would put an end to sport shooting, even Olympic events which require the use of semiautomatic handguns."

They allow 15 year old kids to buy handguns?
Even I think that's a bit irresponsible.
 
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They allow 15 year old kids to buy handguns?
Even I think that's a bit irresponsible.

I've never met a 15 year old who wasn't at least as responsible as our recently departed senator. If he could be a senator, why can't a 15 year old be trusted with a gun?

I like Finland, and I hope they don't screw this up.
 
I've never met a 15 year old who wasn't at least as responsible as our recently departed senator. If he could be a senator, why can't a 15 year old be trusted with a gun?

I like Finland, and I hope they don't screw this up.
...if they follow in the footsteps of the rest of the European countries, I have no doubt that they WILL screw this up!
 
I don't understand. Why don't they just make schools "gun free" zones. That will stop all the violence like it did in the U.S.
 
The recommendation came in a report on an attack in September 2008, when a 22-year-old gunman killed nine fellow students and a teacher before shooting himself at a vocational high school in Kauhajoki, western Finland.

What is a 22 yr. old still doing in high school?
 
Even if their new law was on the books prior to the incident, it wouldn't have made any difference. Nor will it stop any future incidents.
 
...

What is a 22 yr. old still doing in high school?

Not every educational system in the world uses a K-12 compulsory system and starting age of 5. And just because the author of the article typed "vocational high school", he could just as easily meant a polytech-type trade school.

P.S. I just looked it up for the hell of it...Most Finnish kids graduate high-school, or primary school, at age 15, and go on to secondary-type schools. That must be how they settled on age 15 for handgun ownership age limitations.
 
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I've never met a 15 year old who wasn't at least as responsible as our recently departed senator. If he could be a senator, why can't a 15 year old be trusted with a gun?

I like Finland, and I hope they don't screw this up.

My problem with this statement is that I always believed that our recently departed senator lacked the moral fiber necessary to be trusted with a gun.
I also never trusted him to be my senator, and voted against him every chance I had.
 
My problem with this statement is that I always believed that our recently departed senator lacked the moral fiber necessary to be trusted with a gun.
I also never trusted him to be my senator, and voted against him every chance I had.

I don't disagree that he was a terrible senator, who lacked moral fiber. I merely suggest that any society which considers people such as him mentally competent should be considering most teenagers equally competent.
 
Quote Originally Posted by Zappa:
They allow 15 year old kids to buy handguns?
Even I think that's a bit irresponsible.



Because I don't feel that the average 9th grader is mature or responsible enough to carry a handgun.

Things may be different in Finland, but here in the US I'm discouraged at the outlook for the future based on what I see in the majority of our youth today. Most kids today are plain spoiled brats. Way too many have zero respect for authority (parental or governmental), have no discipline whatsoever and an absurd sense of entitlement. And when a parent does try to do something about it, the kids hire lawyers and sue the parents.
Here's an article that I found just today that bolsters my argument that our parents did a far better job at raising children than we did.

Are You Raising a Douchebag?
Your indulgent parenting is spawning a generation of entitled hipster brats.
 
Even if their new law was on the books prior to the incident, it wouldn't have made any difference. Nor will it stop any future incidents.

Well, there you go again - applying logic when people just neeeed to feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel SAFE!

This is the same pathetic substitute for logic we saw at the hearing last July, in which we were asked to believe that a NEW set of regulations would save us when EXISTING laws against the activity in question did NOT.
 
Because I don't feel that the average 9th grader is mature or responsible enough to carry a handgun.

Things may be different in Finland, but here in the US I'm discouraged at the outlook for the future based on what I see in the majority of our youth today. Most kids today are plain spoiled brats. Way too many have zero respect for authority (parental or governmental), have no discipline whatsoever and an absurd sense of entitlement. And when a parent does try to do something about it, the kids hire lawyers and sue the parents.
Here's an article that I found just today that bolsters my argument that our parents did a far better job at raising children than we did.

Are You Raising a Douchebag?
Your indulgent parenting is spawning a generation of entitled hipster brats.

To be fair, every generation has been saying more or less the same thing since the industrial revolution. I'm not sure how old you are, but when you were a kid, adults were talking about how modern kids were spoiled, self-indulgent, and generally immoral compared to previous generations.

Part of the problem is, we treat teenagers like kids. We don't hold them responsible for their actions, and whenever possible, we don't permit them to be responsible. If kids had handguns, and suffered the consequences of misusing them, they would become more responsible. As long as we allow them to avoid the consequences of their actions, we encourage them to be irresponsible.
 
To be fair, every generation has been saying more or less the same thing since the industrial revolution.

Although not conclusively proven as accurate, Socrates is widely reported to have made such complaints about youth of the day.

The good things will be accomplished by the top 20% of the population, and the really great things by the top 2%. From what I have seen, there cream of today's crop is as good as ever, and we should be assured of a decent supply of technoweenies, brain surgeons and yes, even lawyers, for generations to come.
 
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