End of the pullman arms v. Healey case today?

[drgrant]

Even if this changed the landscape. So many online dealers won’t even sell hats to people in MA. You think they’re going to ship an AR or lower?

Let's assume for a minute the court didn't invalidate the earlier claim in the complaint and it invalidated her action on vagueness, you bet your ass it would change things.

It's not the remotes that are the problem here, it's the locals that are scared of AG bs etc. Yeah, there are always going to be stupid remotes that won't send stuff here, but that isn't anything
new. Hell PSA wouldn't send lowers here long before healeyban even happened.

-Mike

 

[amm5061]

What about AR-9s or the Sig MPX/MCX that don't use the traditional gas block on .223/5.56s? Does her edict that those are off limits still stand?

Don't ask inconvenient questions!

But AR-9s can easily be found for sale.

 

[TomMontana]

Just got off the phone with NSSF.
This was only about clarifying and putting in writing the firearms that are not copies or duplicates.
M1A
Tavor
17 rimfire 22 rimfire etc

so no AR and no AK

sorry folks. Morning burger it is.

Still want to thank the dealers and NSSF for leading this effort; putting in their time and money.

 

[M1911]

I wonder how many dealers will be brave enough to sell the Glock 44 (.22LR) since it has a witness hole in the barrel like the one accepted as such an indicator on S&W handguns.

I suspect that the AG will argue this isn’t sufficient as a loaded chamber indicator, just the same as the extractor, because Glock. The HK extractor is an LCI, but the Glock extractor isn’t, because Glock.

 

[TLB]

Read the "analysis" that some have done above. They claim (and likely correctly) that this suit and her "promise" of a clarification does not involve ARs specifically, but refers to other guns that some dealers have been selling all along and IIRC the AG's various Emails claimed weren't AWs under her re-interpretation.

So if you are waiting for $50 lowers to be available at dealers in MA again, I'm afraid that you'll have a very long wait.

Personally, I have 4 lowers purchased long before the AG's BS. I'm offering 2 (only one currently posted) in MA before I legally vacate the state. And no, I'm not going to sell them for what I paid for them. I look at this like a neighbor friend who bought a 1966 Mustang for ~$3K, if he were to sell it today he isn't going ot offer it for $3K or even $6K, but price it to the current market. Essentially no more AR lowers are coming into MA thru dealers, so it inflates the price accordingly. If I don't sell them, I'm fine with building them up per plan in NH (I have all the parts, just never assembled the barrels to the uppers).



Very true. Since it is their livelihood on the line, they tend to be very gunshy (pun intended) about what they offer for sale. And the AG isn't going to help them to determine what she's OK with them selling. Every AG since the 1998 law has told dealers to consult with their own lawyer or mfr when queried about what they could legally transfer.

Except there are dealers in MA selling them for $50. Ok, so you have to promise to build them into a .22LR when you buy. Buy lower for $50, build into .22LR AR and FA-10. Anything you put on that lower later does not require another FA-10. Her BS edict (which is not law) says every AR is illegal anyway, but she just isn't prosecuting for now. I think her edict is BS and they don't dare prosecute someone for slapping a .223 upper on that lower. The emperor has no clothes (which is a scary visual), IMO. But everyone needs to proceed with their eyes open. Undoubtedly, BOHICA is in our future anyway.

Here's hoping Worman makes this all moot anyway with the help of a sane SCOTUS.

 

[Beretta92FS]

What a stinker this is

 

[Snetzley]

From what I’m reading from GOAL, basically nothing changes. Also, this decision has no impact on the Wormer case going to SCOTUS. Here’s a link the updated “guidance.”

Frequently Asked Questions about the Assault Weapons Ban Enforcement Notice

www.mass.gov

 

[Broc]

The easiest way to answer this question is this: Did you get flooded with marketing emails from gun shops around here advertising ARs and AKs suddenly for sale?

Gun shops around here advertise?
Most of them dont even reply to Emails.

If you are talking about Cabelas or Bass pro, forget about them. They will not sell anything until it has been beaten to death that it is legal, and even then, they might still refuse to sell it.

 

[Broc]

Just got off the phone with NSSF.
This was only about clarifying and putting in writing the firearms that are not copies or duplicates.
M1A
Tavor
17 rimfire 22 rimfire etc

so no AR and no AK

sorry folks. Morning burger it is.

Thank you for calling man.

What a lame a** lawsuit. Werent people already buying M1 anyway?

 

[amm5061]

Gun shops around here advertise?
Most of them dont even reply to Emails.

If you are talking about Cabelas or Bass pro, forget about them. They will not sell anything until it has been beaten to death that it is legal, and even then, they might still refuse to sell it.

Not sure what shops you go to, but I get marketing emails advertising sales at least a couple times a week. If they were allowed to sell ARs and AKs again, you bet your ass that they would be sending out emails.

 

[Eugenio.FV]

Im guessing this doesnt remove those "non-duplicate" weapons from the features test, correct? This doesnt mean I can slap my M1A into a Sage chassis with collapsible stock?

 

[drgrant]

FS and MFS spray out emails anywhere from like 1-4 times a month. Not sure about the others.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Im guessing this doesnt remove those "non-duplicate" weapons from the features test, correct? This doesnt mean I can slap my M1A into a Sage chassis with collapsible stock?

Her bullshit never mattered for M1A-anything to begin with, so you can go right ahead and do that.

Of course a lot of this all depends on whether or not you consider her bullshit to be actual law or not. I don't. Mileage may vary.

ETA: As kmm says, an unpinned sage is still bad juju, but that has nothing to do with Maura's BS and everything to do with the actual AWB law.

-Mike

 

[Coda]

Even if this changed the landscape. So many online dealers won’t even sell hats to people in MA. You think they’re going to ship an AR or lower?

No, but many will ship unfinished lowers and complete uppers, that has not changed.

 

[citoriguy]

Don't ask inconvenient questions!

But AR-9s can easily be found for sale.

I have a few, but only one was purchased new. The others were all private party sales. I’m just curious if we’ll see more of them at local stores.

 

[1776]

If you are talking about Cabelas or Bass pro, forget about them. They will not sell anything until it has been beaten to death that it is legal, and even then, they might still refuse to sell it.

Is this because they were "Ratted" out?

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Thank you for calling man.

What a lame a** lawsuit. Werent people already buying M1 anyway?

Basically.
I understand the importance of having it in writing but don’t see this as a huge win. sucks.

 

[beaker]

How am I going to put my kid through college now?

You could always buy cheap old glock mags in other states and sell them here for $180 each.

 

[Broc]

How am I going to put my kid through college now?

Buy all the Walmart ammo at 50% and resell it in the classifieds.

 

[KMM696]

Her bullshit never mattered for M1A-anything to begin with, so you can go right ahead and do that.

Of course a lot of this all depends on whether or not you consider her bullshit to be actual law or not. I don't. Mileage may vary.

-Mike

Gotta disagree there, Mike - it's a 'maybe' not a 'go right ahead'. Sage chassis adds a pistol grip and adjustable stock to the M1A, bringing the Federal AWB rules that MA copied into MGL into play and letting you pick one evil feature to keep. If you defeat enough features, it's legal. Just like my Troy MCS stock.

 

[Eugenio.FV]

Gotta disagree there, Mike - it's a 'maybe' not a 'go right ahead'. Sage chassis adds a pistol grip and adjustable stock to the M1A, bringing the Federal AWB rules that MA copied into MGL into play and letting you pick one evil feature to keep. If you defeat enough features, it's legal. Just like my Troy MCS stock.

Thats my understanding, so now the AG says its not an assault weapon, but add a Sage ebr chassis, and as written by the law, it would be illegal. Alas.

 

[Comm2A]

@Knuckle Dragger @Comm2A

Just to be clear and repeat what has been stated before: Comm2A is NOT a party to the NSSF action (Pullman Arms v. Healey) and we played NO part in this challenge to the AG's interpretation of the Massachusetts AWB. Our petition challenging the AWB law itself is still on the Supreme Court's 'shadow' docket.

The best way to think of the now settled NSSF action is as a commercial interest action. NSSF and the gun shops attacked (and rightly so) the AG's interpretation because it was overly vague and did not not give plaintiffs sufficient notice as to what was and was not subject to prosecution under the AWB. The revised notice clarifies (sort of) what guns can and cannot be considered 'copies or duplicates'. Gun shops are really just interested in knowing what they can and cannot sell, and now they have several firearms (albeit expensive firearms) that they can sell even though the guns green-lighted by the AG have the same capabilities as ARs, AKs and other banned firearms.

This settlement doesn't do anything other than make clear that dealers can't be prosecuted for selling some firearms. The notice is still overly broad, vague, inconsistent with the letter of the law, and creates more confusion about the AWB than it answers. However, because the notice attempts to separate functionally equivalent guns into 'assault weapon' vs. 'non-assault weapon', it only underscores the arbitrary nature of the law.

 

[EddieZoom]

So are you guys trying to tell me I need cancel my order....

;-)

 

[drgrant]

Gotta disagree there, Mike - it's a 'maybe' not a 'go right ahead'. Sage chassis adds a pistol grip and adjustable stock to the M1A, bringing the Federal AWB rules that MA copied into MGL into play and letting you pick one evil feature to keep. If you defeat enough features, it's legal. Just like my Troy MCS stock.

Yes, true, I forgot about the pistol grip BS, and ironically, I confused the sage with the Troy MCS, which has a fixed stock.

That said, bringing up the real AWB in the context of her garbage is sort of confusing and barely relevant. The real AWB is law, her BS, is not.

Even if the court had ruled her shit completely null, it certainly would not affect the rest of the MA AWB at all, at least not with the way this case was framed out of the gate.

-Mike

 

[LuvDog]

What about AR-9s or the Sig MPX/MCX that don't use the traditional gas block on .223/5.56s? Does her edict that those are off limits still stand?

I thought under her vagueness that AR9's also were included because they can use the same grip, trigger, buffers, stock, rails, etc.
I thought that was enough in her mind that it was a dupe/copy.

 

[Enzo]

So according to the GOAL statement I just read in another thread, this has been one big DUD. Nothing has changed in MA in regards buying an AR or AK.

 

[DarthRevan]

What about AR-9s or the Sig MPX/MCX that don't use the traditional gas block on .223/5.56s? Does her edict that those are off limits still stand?

Nope. Those are kosher from my understanding but hey I’m not a lawyer.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

You can have all the ARs, AKs, and lowers that you want per written laws. You just have to look around for the sources. Jack.

 

[enbloc]

This thing needs to fire alternately like a twin 40mm Bofors with independent reciprocating barrels...

 

[M125X]

And if that were to occur, her Asst AG would take her position and carry on from where she left off. We'd be no better off.

Meet the new boss... same as the old boss...