Employers, cars, & guns in VT

[ARV]

1. I was just received this email from the HR department at work. A quick search didn't show anything relevant, so I figured I'd ask here, and sorry if this is a dupe.

"As many of our employees take to the woods this hunting season, please remember that #### policy prohibits "the possession or use of firearms or weapons, or any other dangerous devices on Company property." This prohibition extends to your vehicle parked on any #### campus, so please leave your hunting weapons at home and have a safe hunting season.


Thank you, HR"


Is there any rule in VT that forbids the car restriction as some other states have adopted?

 

[ShaunSweeney]

If the vehicle is on company property you are subject to their rules on firearms possession.

 

[willbdavis]

I don't live in Vermont, but as far as I know Vermont doesn't have any gun laws period. So I'm guessing VT aso doesn't have a gun law that protects the rights of lawful gun owners on company property. I'd love to learn the final answer.

In the abscence of such a law and/or clear guidence from the courts regarding the 2nd Amendment outside of the home I'd have to say the company currently has the legal right to enforce such a policy.

 

[ARV]

I know absent any law, the company can do what ever they want with the issue, but as you mentioned, I havent heard of any such law. Was just wondering if one existed and I had simply missed it.

 

[Squished]

What they don't know doesn't hurt them, leave it in the trunk. Common sense prevails on this issue.

 

[ARV]

What they don't know doesn't hurt them, leave it in the trunk. Common sense prevails on this issue.

My thoughts exactly. Though generaly thats not an issue for me, as my truck is too narrow to take most rifles/shotguns or their cases. Those have to go up front, and I'm not a fan of leaving my stuff in sight when I dont have to. Convertable tops are much too easy to cut

 

[lateapex31]

Why are there so many threads about this? Either carry and keep your mouth shut/gun out of sight or don't bring anything and comply with the rules. Like someone said in the last thread on this topic, sometimes you need to make big boy decisions regarding your personal safety and security that may go against some policy or CYA corporate rule.

 

[Jose]

Like someone said in the last thread on this topic, sometimes you need to make big boy decisions regarding your personal safety and security that may go against some policy or CYA corporate rule.

That might have been me.

 

[SSShooter]

Like someone said in the last thread on this topic, sometimes you need to make big boy decisions regarding your personal safety and security that may go against some policy or CYA corporate rule.

That might have been me.

No way, you don't say stuff like that Jose

 

[ARV]

It was simple curiosity. I looked, found nothing to satisfy that curiosity, and decided to defer to those that may know. If its in my car, in the trunk, and out of their (or anyones) sight, its no ones business whats in there.

 

[ARV]

Either carry and keep your mouth shut/gun out of sight or don't bring anything and comply with the rules. Like someone said in the last thread on this topic, sometimes you need to make big boy decisions regarding your personal safety and security that may go against some policy or CYA corporate rule.

My question has nothing to do with carry. I wanted to know if a law existed in Vermont that protects peoples right to keep a firearm in their car, while on company property. There’s no oh boo-hoo I might get caught with a gun and fired or any other "big boy" decisions that need to be made. It is a simple "does it exist in this state or not?".

 

[Maxpower]

My question has nothing to do with carry. I wanted to know if a law existed in Vermont that protects peoples right to keep a firearm in their car, while on company property. There’s no oh boo-hoo I might get caught with a gun and fired or any other "big boy" decisions that need to be made. It is a simple "does it exist in this state or not?".

Common sense tells me no. My company does not send me email on every law that I could possibly break in the parking lot. But I know when I am there, my vehicle is subject to being searched and weapons are not allowed. I like working there, so I follow the rules.

 

[Jose]

Common sense tells me no.

In several states employers are prohibited from banning firearms in employees vehicles regardless of where they are parked, prohibited from searching for firearms in vehicles, and prohibited from taking any action against employees with firearms in their vehicles.

 

[Blitz1]

In several states employers are prohibited from banning firearms in employees vehicles regardless of where they are parked, prohibited from searching for firearms in vehicles, and prohibited from taking any action against employees with firearms in their vehicles.

Wasn't there a case in Florida recently?

 

[06LemansC6]

But I know when I am there, my vehicle is subject to being searched and weapons are not allowed. I like working there, so I follow the rules.

So you are ok with your employer searching your vehicle without any probable cause? (even LEO's need probable cause to search)

F-that.

 

[Squished]

So you are ok with your employer searching your vehicle without any probable cause? (even LEO's need probable cause to search)

F-that.

My guess is he's really clueless about laws or he works for the government or parks in a government lot. I know my last job(gov) we couldn't park unless we gave consent for searches.

 

[Jose]

Wasn't there a case in Florida recently?

Oklahoma. And we won.

 

[Blitz1]

Oklahoma. And we won.

I thought They won in FA too?

 

[garandman]

I don't live in Vermont, but as far as I know Vermont doesn't have any gun laws period. So I'm guessing VT aso doesn't have a gun law that protects the rights of lawful gun owners on company property. I'd love to learn the final answer.

The email mentions campus. If it's a school:

§ 4004. Possession of dangerous or deadly weapon in a school bus or school building or on school property

(a) No person shall knowingly possess a firearm or a dangerous or deadly weapon while within a school building or on a school bus.

(1) "School property" means any property owned by a school, including motor vehicles.

http://www.atg.state.vt.us/issues/gun-laws.php

 

[TomH]

So you are ok with your employer searching your vehicle without any probable cause? (even LEO's need probable cause to search)

F-that.

The difference is you are parking on private property. So it is property rights vs what you see as privacy rights. Honestly, I can't see a law saying a company has to allow you to keep guns in your trunk as constitutional. They probably shouldn't be able to search the car, but they can certainly ask you to leave or have you towed if you refuse. Again... PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS. Note: this shouldn't apply to state jobs/state owned property.

That said... just keep the things in the car/trunk. The worst that can happen is they ask you to leave and/or you get fired.

 

[ARV]

No, its not a school campus. But as much as I would like to throw something in my pocket, I might very well be on shaky legal ground, if not outright in violation of the law. Yes, I know people here have complaints about unarmed security, but its what I do, and its a paycheck. As far as I know, I need a license from the state to be an ARMED guard. I have no idea how this does, or could be (mis)construed to apply to concealed, in the event I ever had to used it. Just a side note, before someone develops the opinion that I’m a mall ninja, or cop wanna-be. No. I know my place, I know what I can and cant do, and my authority here begins and ends at the property line. I stay within the limits I have and do what’s expected, I’m not here to play superman or save the world…no Paul Blart Mall Cop here. (there are others I work with that think diffrently though)

 

[Maxpower]

My guess is he's really clueless about laws or he works for the government or parks in a government lot. I know my last job(gov) we couldn't park unless we gave consent for searches.

Yep. My license is restricted (MA) anyways so it doesn't matter for me. Jose: I was not aware of that and thank you for enlightening me. I did not know such laws existed.

 

[Jose]

Honestly, I can't see a law saying a company has to allow you to keep guns in your trunk as constitutional.

It's already been ruled so in enough states that no one challenges it any more.

 

[Squished]

Yep. My license is restricted (MA) anyways so it doesn't matter for me. Jose: I was not aware of that and thank you for enlightening me. I did not know such laws existed.

Guess it's two fold then.

1. You work for the fed gov so you signed most of your rights away when you took the job
2. Your license is restricted so this thread doesn't matter anyway to you since your license doesn't allow you to keep vehicles in your car to begin with.

 

[06LemansC6]

The difference is you are parking on private property. So it is property rights vs what you see as privacy rights. Honestly, I can't see a law saying a company has to allow you to keep guns in your trunk as constitutional. They probably shouldn't be able to search the car, but they can certainly ask you to leave or have you towed if you refuse. Again... PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS. Note: this shouldn't apply to state jobs/state owned property.

That said... just keep the things in the car/trunk. The worst that can happen is they ask you to leave and/or you get fired.

I see a lot of talk about property rights here. I agree that you may be parking on their property, but the vehicle is MY property. There is a third option. I can go park on the street where probable cause is needed to search. If the choices are search or be fired, I will loose the job. I'd get another making the same $$.

Most of this doesn't apply to me as my company does not have any such policy, and I have a company vehicle, so they can certainly search their own vehicle any time they wish.

Personally I prefer to carry on my person. Typically I use a deep cover holster while at work. I don't see any reason they will request a search of my person. Concealed is concealed.