Do I Wanna Start?

TonyD said:
I believe that 'pilot' is the correct nomenclature.

I like dial because I've used them a lot. Also, I like simplicity. I use a Lee auto prime because it was cheap. I'm quite sure the RCBS is better quality.
I checked them out, depending on who's gear it it, it's either a pilot or collet. I'm still learnin'!
I love the dial myself, analog stuff is so much simpler as far as I'm concerned.
Dang, I was planning on buying a couple of rifles, a Swiss K31 and Russian M44. I guess I'll pick one rifle and buy the rest of my reloading stuff.
 
JonJ said:
Hey thanks Nickle. I'll hold off for now.

If it doesn't work out, PM me. I've got some commercial 223, and I only use military brass myself.

Oh, I'd go with whatever caliper you feel comfortable with. I've got all 3 kinds (digital, dial and vernier) and am comfortable with them all. Do make sure you get a GOOD one. Cheap end of a name brand is good enough. Stay away from plastic ones.
 
Jon - It won't take much. Your biggest expense will be powder and bullets from here on out. I usually get most all my stuff from MidwayUSA. I suggest finding a local supply for powder and primers, though, else the hazmat fee will eat into your savings.
 
TonyD said:
Jon - It won't take much. Your biggest expense will be powder and bullets from here on out. I usually get most all my stuff from MidwayUSA. I suggest finding a local supply for powder and primers, though, else the hazmat fee will eat into your savings.

I'll ditto this, unless you buy 32 lbs of powder at a time, and use surplus. I do, and you can save money. 32 lbs (Four 8 lb kegs) of powder usually gives you a break on Hazmat and/or shipping.

Gunshows are also a good place to get primers cheap.

If you're going to load M855 Ball, there is a few sources to get reasonably cheap bullets. If you're going to use Brand Name bullets, go with MidWay. We use them a fair amount. They're fast and reasonably priced. Our other source only sells to FFL's and even gives a special price to Class 6 FFL's.
 
I'm kind of stuck in that regard. There is only one place around here that sells a small amount of reloading supplies so I use Re15 powder and WSR primers. My match bullets come from MidwayUSA.
 
JonJ said:
Don't think I'll be buying powder in that Qty Nick! I'll get it and primers local.

32 lbs of rifle powder lasts me about a year and a half to 2 years. I load for 223, 308 and 7.62x54R. The last 2 use a fair amount of powder (42-47 gr). At 7000 grains per pound, and assuming 45 gr, you only get 1244 rounds from 8 lbs. For your 223, assuming 26 gr, you get 2153 rounds.

4895 will cost you about $120 per 8 lb, or more. Surplus powder can be had for $64 to $80 for 8 lb. Hazmat is $20, usually. I generally use WC844 or WC846, which are cheap ($64 to $72), and the original powders for 5.56 Ball and 7.62 Ball respectively.

Anyways, I usually split a shipment with my father or other friend.

Maybe we can get a group buy going?

Distance is a bitch for some of us, but, I can find an "excuse" to travel easy enough. I know the wife won't bitch about going shopping in a "bigger" area.
 
JonJ said:
TonyD said:
Stoney Point length gauges and bullet comparator.

Tony, are these what you're talking about?
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=479963
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=290405
Would I need the RCBS Precission Mic for .223 or would the Stoney Point items be it?
I'm going to go with the RCBS Caliper, it's about $28

Don't think I'll be buying powder in that Qty Nick! I'll get it and primers local.

Jon - those two items are the OAL measuring tools. These will tell you the exact distance to your lands if you want to start loading 80 gr. bullets for the 600 yard line. 80 gr's have to be seated longer than mag length and usually just .002" off the lands. I'll get you a link for what I'm talking about.
 
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=727771
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=479704

Jon - there is a couple ways to order these items. But, you will need the Comparator body, a 'headspace' gauge (.223) and a bullet comparator (.223). You get can these each singularly or as sets.

Now, the "headspace" gauge is really a misnomer, it does not measure head space as related to your chamber. This measures the length of your case from base to the shoulder using your calipers. You use this to set up your FL sizing die.

Take 5 pieces of brass that has been fired in your rifle and measure them (using this gauge) and record the info. Then, you can set up the die to re-size your brass slightly under that deminsion.

The Comparator is used to set up your seating die by measuring from the base to the ogive of the bullet.
 
Thanks Tony. But now I'm beginning to feel a bit over my head. I didn't realize that there are so many different gauges for so many different measurements. I'm searching google right now trying to figure out what does what!
 
One thing you need to remember is that Tony is referring to making MATCH ammo. The better the ammo, the better your scores. Now, if you're just going to replicate M855 Ball or M193 Ball, it's a whole lot simpler.

I do suggest getting a Wilson "Case gage", known by some as a Case "Headspace Gage", whether you're loading match ammo or not. They're cheap, and will tell you if the brass is sized too much or too little, and if it's properly trimed.
 
JonJ said:
Thanks Tony. But now I'm beginning to feel a bit over my head. I didn't realize that there are so many different gauges for so many different measurements. I'm searching google right now trying to figure out what does what!

Hah! It sounds more complicated than it really is.

You need measure three areas:

1) Case length from base to shoulder. Auto-loaders need to be slightly undersized to feed and chamber reliably. You find out what yours is by first measuring those 5 fired pieces I talked about. Then, it's simply used to set up your die down until it sizes the brass to the length you want. So far, I've had good luck "bumping" the shoulder back .002" from my fire formed measuement.

2) Overall case length after you size. Using just your calipers, measure the case length so you can set up your trimmer.

3) COAL (cartridge over-all length). From the base to the ogive in order to seat your bullet to the correct depth. Either mag length, or long for the 80's.

The gauges are very easy to use. They attach to your calipers with a thumb screw. Zero your calipers when it's closed. Attach the comparator body with the thumb screw and attach one of gauges with the set screw. Then, close the calipers on the gauges and measure how long they are and record that number. Insert a case, measure it and subtract, and you have you net length.

Example:

My fire formed brass measured 3.460". My comparator body and headspace gauge measured 2.003"

3.460 - 2.003 = 1.457" (length of case from base to shoulder. Then, I set up my sizing die and screwed it down until my brass was 1.455" (net) Viola! Perfectly sized brass for MY chamber.


The comparator works in the same way. For mag. length, I simply measured 5 pieces of factory ammo and set up my seater until they came out to that length. Then, I just usually check each 10th piece along the way to make sure it's still doing right.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions or confusions.
 
Also, Nickle is correct, I am referring to match ammo. However, regardless of the reason you load for, you still have to measure these areas so you can size, trim and seat to correct and safe lengths.
 
TonyD said:
Jon - Hows the reloading going? I can help you with anything but swaging.
Haven't started yet!
I have spent this last week at a Firearms Instructors Course for Police Officers. We just finished up.
My order from MidwayUSA arrrived, the calipers, hand primer, and Stoney Point parts. Also picked up a set of used RCBS FL .223 dies.
I've read a few stories about the RCBS Swager and people coming close to losing fingers!
I didn't get any brass at the range. It's a public munincipal range and no one polices their brass! The place is a mess and I would have spend hours just trying to pick out the good stuff. Some enterprising person could make a few $$ with a rake, shovel, and screen.
 
A suggestion and a question.

For the primer pocket swager, I use my chamferring reamer, just enough to seat the primers. If you buy one, I suggest the Dillon. I didn't like my RCBS either.

How much brass do you want? I've got what could be a sweet deal for you. It'll be probably all commercial brass, since I keep the US military for myself. I can come up with at least a couple hundred to a thousand cases (not sure just how much commercial 223 I've got). I'll just want the cost of shipping. That shouldn't be too much. I'd just as soon get the money donated to a good cause, like this board, for instance.

How's that sound to you?
 
Nickle said:
A suggestion and a question.

For the primer pocket swager, I use my chamferring reamer, just enough to seat the primers. If you buy one, I suggest the Dillon. I didn't like my RCBS either.

How much brass do you want? I've got what could be a sweet deal for you. It'll be probably all commercial brass, since I keep the US military for myself. I can come up with at least a couple hundred to a thousand cases (not sure just how much commercial 223 I've got). I'll just want the cost of shipping. That shouldn't be too much. I'd just as soon get the money donated to a good cause, like this board, for instance.

How's that sound to you?
Hey thanks Nickle. Let me know what you need to get it here. Why don't you use commercial? For learning on, the commercial should be good for me, no?
Hey Tony, I'm going to the general section for a little range report....
Had a blast?????? Oh friggin' ya, I had a blast!!!!!
 
Jon - You should definately take Nickle up on the brass. Getting a 'feel' for case-prep takes a little practice if going to load match or accurate rounds.

As far crimps go, I use a tool specifically for that. It's a Primer Pocket Reamer and mine is from Hornady.
 
I can sort the military out by years, and find it more consistent and better made than most commercial.

Commercial is good stuff. In fact, the best brass I know of is Norma and Lapua. That's regardless of caliber.

PM me your address. It'll be a while before I get it to you. We can square up after I send it. Besides, it'll give Derek and Tony time to figure out how to use the money to promote the site. That's where I prefer the money to go to, if it's OK with them.
 
Nickle said:
I can sort the military out by years, and find it more consistent and better made than most commercial.

Commercial is good stuff. In fact, the best brass I know of is Norma and Lapua. That's regardless of caliber.

PM me your address. It'll be a while before I get it to you. We can square up after I send it. Besides, it'll give Derek and Tony time to figure out how to use the money to promote the site. That's where I prefer the money to go to, if it's OK with them.

Nickle - Thanks, that's a very generous offer. Derek is the one that pays for this space so that's his call.
 
Nickle said:
Hey Tony, does the Hornady reamer last longer than a Lyman? I keep wearing the Lyman reamers out every couple of thousand cases.

I've only been using it for about 1,000 cases now so I couldn't say. I did try using it in a drill but found that wasn't the way to go. It's easier to 'waller' out the pocket and I think the speed (even slow) would dull the tool quickly. So, I use it in the handle and do it by hand. At least you only have to do it once to each case.
 
Tony

The offer is only fair, I use bandwidth, I can pay a little. Besides, it's for a good cause. Give Jon credit as well.

Amen to the comment about only having to ream once. I use the Lyman by hand anyways.
 
Nickle said:
Tony

The offer is only fair, I use bandwidth, I can pay a little. Besides, it's for a good cause. Give Jon credit as well.

Amen to the comment about only having to ream once. I use the Lyman by hand anyways.

The thing about using a reamer instead of a mouth chamfer tool, is the reamer also has a straight cutting surface that will cut and uniform the walls of the pocket so they are more concentric, and puts a more pronounced bevel on the head. I use my reamer on all brass, even if they aren't crimped. I find a lot that are out of round and this makes all my brass consistent which, we all know, is the main key to accuracy. A pocket uniformer would probably help but I ahven't used one yet.
 
Pocket Uniformers are awesome.

If you ever reload Winchester 7.62x54R brass, make sure you use one. They cut the primer pockets too shallow for their OWN primers.
 
If you want to make REALLY good match ammo, get a uniformer. I suggest going to R.W. Hart and Son (Bob's long dead, Wally runs the business the last 25 years). They're the best.
 
I'll look into it. Like I said, though, the reamer cuts the bevel and the walls to concentric all the way down to the floor of the pocket. I'm not sure what else a uniformer could do.
 
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