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Dillon 550/650 - ??

swampthing

swampthing

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I'm thinking of buying one or both of these machines but have held off due to the negative reviews on loading cast boolits. Basically the lack of properly sized "m" die style powder funnels for straight-walled cartridges, and the total lack of neck expansion for bottleneck.

Do any of you using these machines have any feedback? I've searched around and see that others have similar issues with cast. Some people have had custom funnels created - but there doesn't seem to be a consistent source for these other then custom.

I know I have another thread asking about the giraud trimmer, but has anyone used the Dillon trimmer on their press?
 
I have a Dillon 550, use it for handgun cartridges including 44/40. I have a RCBS single stage I use for rifle as I measure each load but I have the shellplate for 30.06 and .303 and may try it. Am going to use it for .223 once I finish with my current run of .38's

90% of what I load are cast bullets on both the Dillon and the Rock Chucker. I have had no problem with 9mm, .38 S&W, .38 Special, .357, .45 acp, 44/40 on the Dillon.

www.brianenos.com has lots of helpful info. Basically he says if you load more than 500 of a single caliber at a sitting you might want the 650 with the case feeder. I usually average about 250 rounds an hour with my 550 but I load slow, looking into each case with a light and mirror to make sure there is powder, but have never had a problem with the 550 throwing a charge.
Also if you have a problem the 550 is easier to stop and take a case out. I sometimes get .357's mixed up with my .38's and don't notice it until it goes into the Dillon powder funnel expanding die and that does a number on the longer case. It is easy to take the case out dump the powder and toss the case. The case feeder on the 650 is VERY noisy, the 550 is slower but quieter.
I have the strong mount for it and I load sitting on a stool.
I had thought about a second one for large primers but it is easy to change from small to large, takes about 20 minutes, again because I am slow. Changing calibers is easy because I have tool holders for each caliber and powder measures for each.
To me the only advantage to the 650 is the powder check, some people swear by it but I have never had the 550 fail to drop a charge.

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- - - Updated - - -

Oh by the way I have this setup in my furnace room, friends say if they hear a loud bang it will be my house heading towards the moon.
 
Both are great machines. It depends on the volume and how many calibers your shoot. 550b is cheaper for caliber changes. If you think you ever want a case feeder get a 650. The one for the 550b is an afterthought total POS. Some people bitch that the 550 is not a true progressive because it doesn't auto-index. I bet most of them have never used one because it doesn't slow anything down since you have to manually grab cases. I had a 550 and upgraded to 650. When I'm working up new test loads I miss the simplicity of the 550. Once I have a dialed in load the 650 shines.
 
I have a 550 and load various straight walled pistol calibers and .223 for rifle. I'd buy it again as I've loaded a lot in the last 25??? years I've had it. Yes, you need to be careful placing a bullet on the belled case but it's not too difficult. If it were a problem, I'd probably have modified the shape of the bell as I could have done it myself. I've made powder drops before for rifle calibers and they aren't difficult if you have access to the proper machinery. As previously posted, there is a replacement if you don't like what you have.


I have the Dillon trimmer and use it on a rockchucker that is used only for the trimmer. t works great but you do have to chamfer at least the ID after trimming on my 223's. I had thought about making up a Giraud type trimmer but after hearing about sore fingers after using them I never did.
 
You only cry once if you get the best. If you can't afford a Ammoload straight line machine or a Setpoint, the 1050 is pretty decent (though it lacks the lifetime warranty of the other Dillon machines).

I have a 1050 and 550, but haven't had the 550 out of the box since I moved a couple of years ago.
 
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I don't understand the complaints about loading cast bullets. I load mostly lead (80 to 90% of my rounds) and have no problems in either my 550 or 1050. The powder funnels are easy to adjust; the biggest problem is the failure to flare the case mouth sufficiently which is easy to remedy once you understand the problem.

My 550 is good for an easy 400 rounds per hour and I find auto indexing to be highly overrated unless you are using a case feeder. As Mike mentioned the 550 case feeder is a POS. This design has been around for over 20 years and still doesn't work. If you want higher production get a 650 with a case feeder or go all out and get a 1050.

I'm not sorry that I bought the 550 case feeder even though I only used it for about 2000 rounds and gave up. recently took delivery on a Case Pro (after a 3 year wait) and the 550 case feeder works great in this application.
 
I don't understand why you think the 550 sucks for cast bullets. It works fine for me.
 
I cant remember the last time I loaded a jacketed pistol bullet on my 550. The seating and crimp die get gunked up over time from lube but the dillon dies snap apart easily enough for cleaning and snap back together, leaving the settings unchanged.
 
Thanks for all the responses, I do appreciate the deep domain knowledge around here. I've been trolling Cast Boolits as well for knowledge - but firsthand experience is invaluable.

I know this is a long response, but I've spent a ton of time researching options. I'm sure some of you will think I'm a bit nuts but here goes. I know I'm probably overthinking this..

A couple of comments.

- Not that I'm an expert by any means but I've fairly familiar with all sorts of reloading techniques and single stage vs progressive. I've been reloading for 30 yrs now, since my Dad taught me that I could shoot for "free" if I learned. I've reloaded 100,000+ rounds of 12ga starting on MEC SizeMaster presses now up to fully automated progressive units. I never made the same leap with brass for reasons described below. I'm not afraid of one type of press vs the other.

- First and foremost I'm happy to spend the $ on whatever gives me the end result that I'm looking for = Quality. I know I don't need to for all ammo, but it's in my nature to be a perfectionist. At the same time my time is valuable and limited so finding the intersection of time and perfection is the holy grail for me.

- My primary issue with my old single stage routine is I am tired of the handling of primers. The powder (currently using RCBS uniflow) and the many, many steps it takes to make quality ammo. I did have a Dillon 450 for a while, but never went much further with it.

- I wet tumble my brass with SS media.

- I shoot a few hundred rounds max a week. Not thousands. But if something is better (independent of cost) I don't mind buying if it makes my reloading faster without compromising quality.

- I tend to like to shoot the odd and unusual. 223, 9mm aren't my thing. I do respect people that have made shooting these rounds their craft. I have always had a passion for collecting late 1800's and up to WWII guns. This means that most of the rounds I shoot are a little more strange. 45 Colt, 44-40, 32 S&W, 38 S&W, 45-70, 45-90, 30-40 Krag, 32 Winchester Special, 6.5x55 Swede. My most normal cartridges are 30-06, 30 Carbine, 38 Special and 44 Mag/Spl. I do shoot a lot of 30-06 about 50% 150 JHP/175 SMK and the other 50% cast from Lyman 311291 with a gas check. All other rounds I cast for.

- I also cast all my own projectiles so I have the luxury of making them fit my guns exactly. Perfect fit = no leading almost ever.

- Remember most of the modern guns that shoot rounds like 45 Colt, 44-40 use modern diameters. After WWII manufactures of barrels tried to match 45ACP and 44MAG diameters respectively. If you do research the original rounds use diameters .002 and .003 from modern rounds. Therefore proper case sizing is critical otherwise you end up swaging the round down to an improper diameter.

- For those that don't understand the complaints about loading cast bullets you have been fortunate or using run of the mill (i.e. 9mm, 45 ACP or 38) - or you are using very hard cast bullets. Have you an experience with leading in your guns due to bullet swaging? Case mouth belling typically is good for very hard cast or jacketed bullets. The bullet won't get resized during seating. Unfortunately with softer lead bullets they are swaged by the case diameter with just belling. So the reason for the invention of the "m" style dies. But these dies must match the diameter of the bullet you are seating. I've had companies like Buffalo Arms make me custom ones to match the resizing die on my RCBS Size-o-Matic which match bore slugging. I don't see anything from Dillon or Mr. Bullet that covers any of the rounds I'm loading for. Especially with older guns with less then imperfect bores you need software lead BHN 12 or less. Most commercial casters are using harder lead so the bullets don't get beat up when they ship them to use. Look at Elmer Keith's old load data and even for hot loads like 44 mag he used softer lead to reduce leading by sealing the cylinder throats and the bore. If anyone is a machinist and wants to make some $$ I'd be interested in custom funnels. If I were only shooting 38, 44 and 45 would be a non issue.

- Even if Dillon funnels solve the above for me on straight walled cases how are you guys expanding the necks of bottle neck cartridges.

- 30-06 seems to be the obvious choice to try and tackle initially. As I said I shoot jacketed for 50% of my rounds, 50% lead. Lead requires some case-mouth expansion. I see no expanders that work with the Dillon powder measure to support this. The funnel for 30-carbine would be an option but reading other experiences you can't back the powder die out far enough to support the long 30-06 case.

- 30-06 does require trimming, at least the first time your using/re-using brass. I'm on the fence about the Dillon trimmer as it doesn't chamfer the inside of the neck. Also other rounds like 32 Winchester Special, 30-40 Krag don't seem to have a trim die from Dillon. I'd prefer not to have 2 electric trim systems, but I may have not choice. Or I choose an off press trim option and live with it.

- I've heard horror stories about powders like 4895 in the Dillon powder measure. Not sure how much is fact vs internet fiction.

- Yes have seen Brian Enos "packaging" things. Easy to buy for sure. Thank you for the references.

- Speaking with Dillon techs they tell me I must resize to some degree with their powder funnel to engage their powder measure.

- I'd do load black powder for some rounds. Is there a powder measure option from Dillon for BP (FFg and FFFg).


At this point I'm neutral on 550 vs 650. I feel that 650 is fine and but since Dillon and aftermarket don't have a solution for the case resizing I don't take full advantage. If I have to trim off press one more reason to stick with the simpler press.

I'm thinking of buying one or two x50's and a bunch of tool heads. One for lrg primer one for sml.

- Universal decapping toolhead in advance of wet tumble.
- Wet tumble.

Option 1 - Embrace Dillon

Prep Toolhead
- Input is clean lubed cases.
- Station 1 sizing die (possibly with the Dillon sizer if I can get dies for 32 WS, 30-40)
- Some sort of primer pocket swager for rounds that need it

- Wet tumble to remove lube.

Load Toolhead
- Station 1 "M" style dies for case neck sizing
- Station 2 Powder. If I can get custom funnels for all my rounds then station 1 could be empty.
- Station 3/4 - Seat / crimp.

If I go with this option I could theoretically go with 650s to take advantage of the case feeders.


Option 2 - Dillon Press + Aftermarket
Prep Toolhead
- Input is clean lubed cases
- Station 1 is sizing die (reuse existing sizing dies I own)

- Wet tumble to remove lube

- Off press sizing on a Girard if necessary

Load Toolhead
- Station 1 "M" style dies for case neck sizing
- Station 2 Powder. Use RCBS Uniflow with case activation. This should respect the sizing from my custom M dies in station 1
Station 3/4 - Seat / Crimp



I'd prefer option 1 so I can dump cases into a feeder and pull the lever. The two negatives I'm struggling with is case trimming / mouth chamfer and finding someone to supply proper sizing funnels especially for rifle rounds.
 
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The Dillon expander/flaring die will expand the case inner diameter a few thousandths less than the bullet diameter, so it has proper tension. What does the "M" funnel do beyond that?
 
bill o said:
The Dillon expander/flaring die will expand the case inner diameter a few thousandths less than the bullet diameter, so it has proper tension. What does the "M" funnel do beyond that?
Click to expand...

Agreed but the Dillon diameters are all based on jacketed bullet dimensions, aren't they? They may work for a round that is .001 oversize from the jackets - but what about rounds that are 2 or 3 or 4 thousands different. Not a problem unique to Dillon - same problem I had with off the shelf die sets. I had to put together neck sizing dies specific for each round I was loading for. I guess I could do it for Dillon and was hopefully someone had a line on custom funnel manufacturing.

How are you dealing with this for rifle rounds?

BTW don't think that "dillon sucks" for cast - just trying to better understand how others are solving these issues.
 
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I do pistol on my Dillon, and cast my own as well as buy precast. For expanding/flaring, there are times that the bullet diameter is slightly different than the previous run. I simply adjust the powder measure expanding die (holds the powder measure and flares the case mouth) up or down to change the amount of flare. I can make it whatever I want.
 
Ben Cartwright SASS said:
I do pistol on my Dillon, and cast my own as well as buy precast. For expanding/flaring, there are times that the bullet diameter is slightly different than the previous run. I simply adjust the powder measure expanding die (holds the powder measure and flares the case mouth) up or down to change the amount of flare. I can make it whatever I want.
Click to expand...

OK sounding like solutions are there for pistol.

No issues with bullet swaging?
 
Ben Cartwright SASS said:
I do pistol on my Dillon, and cast my own as well as buy precast. For expanding/flaring, there are times that the bullet diameter is slightly different than the previous run. I simply adjust the powder measure expanding die (holds the powder measure and flares the case mouth) up or down to change the amount of flare. I can make it whatever I want.
Click to expand...

You adjust your flaring to accommodate a thousandth or two in bullet variation? Wouldn't case length variation affect the amount of flare so much as to make that pointless? Unless you're trimming your pistol brass to length, which would be completely ... wait, are you guys trimming pistol brass?
 
I have had a 550b for 10 years. At the time, it was perfect for what I did. At this point, I wish I had a 650 or 1050 but have so much equipment for my 550 it seems uneconomical to upgrade
 
I've loaded thousands if not 10 of thousands of cast bullets on the various Dillon machines. I've had the 450,550 and currently 2 650s. I load both handgun and rifle with cast bullets,the Dillon expanders work fine for pistol callibers. I have 2 rifles that I use a Lyman "M" die 7.62x39 and 308, it bell the case mouth to make seating a cast bullet with with ease. I cast 9 mm bullets an size the to .358 as the 6 9 mm pistols vary in groove diameter and up to this point I haven't had any problems cranking out ammo.
 
bill o said:
I don't understand why you think the 550 sucks for cast bullets. It works fine for me.
Click to expand...
I have loaded many case boolits (H&G #68 200 gr .45ACP SWC, commercially cast) with great success. Bullet lube would occasionally build up in the seating die, and would need to be scraped out so it not cause overly deep seating.
 
highlander said:
I've loaded thousands if not 10 of thousands of cast bullets on the various Dillon machines. I've had the 450,550 and currently 2 650s. I load both handgun and rifle with cast bullets,the Dillon expanders work fine for pistol callibers. I have 2 rifles that I use a Lyman "M" die 7.62x39 and 308, it bell the case mouth to make seating a cast bullet with with ease. I cast 9 mm bullets an size the to .358 as the 6 9 mm pistols vary in groove diameter and up to this point I haven't had any problems cranking out ammo.
Click to expand...

What station do you setup the M die in on the 650? This sounds like the setup I'm looking for.
 
Put it in station 2.

I use Hornady powder measures in most of my 650 toolheads. I put the powder measure in station 3, and the expander in station 2.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
I have loaded many case boolits (H&G #68 200 gr .45ACP SWC, commercially cast) with great success. Bullet lube would occasionally build up in the seating die, and would need to be scraped out so it not cause overly deep seating.
Click to expand...

Lube will build up in the seating die but I have found that a little extra flare in the case mouth will keep it to a minimum. Hoppe's #9 is great for removing lube.

PS I have heard that too much flare will shorten case life but have not experienced this problem. I flare a little more than is necessary to prevent lube build up in the seating die and have not noticed any ill effects on my brass. Even if case life is shortened, it is a small price to keep the lube out of the seating die.

Speaking of case flaring/bell mouthing, I have several of the old style adjustable flaring dies that perform this function in station #2 (primer pocket swaging) of the 1050. They work great but are no longer offered by Dillon. I have no idea why Dillon stopped making them.
 
bigblue said:
I know I've asked you before but why Hornady? Better drops for certain powders?
Click to expand...

Yes. It's also easier to mve from toolhead-to-toolhead. Get a quick change powder die for each toolhead and you can move the powder measure in ten seconds withut tools.
 
swampthing said:
What station do you setup the M die in on the 650? This sounds like the setup I'm looking for.
Click to expand...

I put mine in station 3. Size,powder charge,M die then seat bullet and light crimp. I'm using a Dillon powder dispenser rather than a different manufacturers powder measure.
 
I love the simplicity of my 550. I use to wish I had a 650, and while the 650 is most certainly a "better " press the cost savings, simplicity and reliability of the 550 I enjoy as best firearm related purchase I've ever made

Just this morning I reloaded 500 rounds of 9mm and on a whim decided I wanted to try something different with my .38 short colt loads... Made a few quick changes and busted out 100 rounds to try out. This afternoon I'll use it as a single stage press to work some 5.56 brass
 
I'm up north today with the plan to grab one of these presses. I'm leaning toward 650 due to the case feeder. If I go 650 I'm going with Dillon 1500 trimmer. If I go with 550 I'm going with Giraud trimmer as I'll have to handle the brass anyway.

I'd like to see a pict or parts list showing how EddieCoyle has his powder measure configured.
 

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