Depriming in seperate press

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Bugs100

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I was wondering if any one deprimes with a single stage press first before they use their progressive press.

I'm giving some serious thought about buying a Lee single stage press to do this. The reason being that I'm loading a lot of long pistol cases, 32-20, 41 mag and 44 mag.

I noticed that it's a lot slower and harder to deprime these cases on a 5 station progressive press than some other calibers like 38's, 45's.

The only other thing I can think of is to start lubing all these calibers but due to the volume of cases that I like to do at once I would think that's more costly, trouble and time consuming than using a single stage to do this. Also I don't think it would make it that much easier.

Any suggestions?
 
What kind of dies do you use?

I load LOTS of .500 and .460 on what I think is the same press that you use, and I have no problems (and I don't lube pistol cases).

Are you sure it's the depriming and not the resizing?
 
First I'm sorry I put this post in the wrong forum.

I'm using brand new Hornady dies. I was using Lees and got rid of them for the Hornady's and it did make a difference.

But it still isn't as easy as it should be.

I'm not so sure it isn't the resizing is there a way to set them so they just deprime?
 
Bugs100 said:
I'm not so sure it isn't the resizing is there a way to set them so they just deprime?
Click to expand...

You can deprime-only by using a larger caliber die but the correct shellplate - for example, use your .44 die to deprime .41.
 
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No they don't stick come down, it's just a lot harder to raise the ram. When I was using the Lee Dies it was real bad I actually could only run one round at a time through the machine at a time. With The Hornady I can run 2 but I have to wait untill the frist round clears the powder drop.

I ran the decapping pin out of both dies when I installed them so I could install the die a little higher and the decapping pin just barely punches out the primer.

There is a big difference in feel in the ram between the Hornady and the Lee with the Hornady being a lot smoother. I think what I'm going to have to do is call Hornady and ask them.
 
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Of all the operations performed by the press, resizing takes the most force. Everything else - belling, charging, seating, and crimping - added together shouldn't add up to the force required to size the case. So I'm not sure why running one or two cases (rather than a full shellplate) through would make it much easier than resizing by itself.

Here's a few more questions:
  • Are you making good ammo?
  • Does the press move freely when empty?
  • If you run one case though at a time, do any stations other than the first (resizing) offer significant resistance?
  • Is one of the dies squashing into the shellplate or ejection wire?
  • When does it get hard to move the handle, when the case first enters the die, or near the top?

Wait - I didn't think to ask this and it's a biggie: Are you using a carbide sizing die? If not, you'll need to lube the cases, then order a carbide die. The Hornady carbide sizing die has a gold-ish colored ring inside near the bottom.
 
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It's a brand new Hornady carbide sizing die with a gold colored ring inside. The press runs fine except when I'm using the depriming/sizing die. The ram gets a real lot of resistance as soon as I start the ram up.

I've taken the die out a few times ad reset it. I think I'm going to take it out again and just reset it again with the die as high as it can go with the pin run out to it's maxuim length again and trying that one more time.
 
How does the finished ammo look? If it is noticeably "hourglass" shaped, and/or if the finished cartridges aren't perfectly symmetrical - in other words, bullets look like they're offset a bit inside the case - it's possible that your die is out of spec (too small).

Longer cases do take more force to form than short cases (especially 9mm). Maybe what you're experiencing is normal.
 
Bugs100 said:
It's a brand new Hornady carbide sizing die with a gold colored ring inside. The press runs fine except when I'm using the depriming/sizing die. The ram gets a real lot of resistance as soon as I start the ram up.

I've taken the die out a few times ad reset it. I think I'm going to take it out again and just reset it again with the die as high as it can go with the pin run out to it's maxuim length again and trying that one more time.
Click to expand...

I wonder if you got a defective die without the carbide insert? I know I was having a hell of a time loading .500S&W for Mr.Twigg with non-carbide dies, even with lube.
 
I have just upgraded to a Dillon 550, but even with my previous turret press or single stage I set up a seperate de-priming station. I picked up a cheap Lee press for $21.00 at Midway and a Lee universal decapping die. I bolted it to a seperate bench and drilled a hole through the bench and hung a plastic pail under the hole. After I clean my used brass I decap, inspect, clean the primer hole as needed and store. I just like having this as a seperate step. The cheap press works just fine for the purpose and when I am ready to reload I have plenty of clean and ready brass.
 
The funny thing about it is, resizing brass in my mind is a little over rated. In the long run the way I look at most of the pistol brass is just going to go through a lee fcd in the end any way.

Also use brass is fireformed any way, if it ejects from a chamber it must fit back in to it. Loading every case by hand you also get a quick look at them also to check to see if their dinged, dented or out of round.

I think Goose has a good Idea I think in the long run the way he has it set up it so it would be easier to deprime a couple of thousand pices to have ready.
 
Bugs100 said:
The funny thing about it is, resizing brass in my mind is a little over rated. In the long run the way I look at most of the pistol brass is just going to go through a lee fcd in the end any way.

Also use brass is fireformed any way, if it ejects from a chamber it must fit back in to it. Loading every case by hand you also get a quick look at them also to check to see if their dinged, dented or out of round.

I think Goose has a good Idea I think in the long run the way he has it set up it so it would be easier to deprime a couple of thousand pices to have ready.
Click to expand...
No offense Bugs, but before you load another round, you should read the beginning chapters in the ABC's of Reloading or some other such book. Look for the parts about why you need to do certain steps.

Resizing is extremely important!! Try seating a bullet in a fired case. You can push it right in with little effort. You can then crimp with a FCD until your fingers bleed and if you're lucky you'll end up with an inaccurate round. If you're unlucky, the resulting setback from a too-loose bullet will cause the pressure to spike high enough to blow up you and your gun.

You are not resizing simply to make the round fit your gun. Resizing ensures that the case will hold a bullet with the proper amount of tension. If you don't resize, recoil will cause the bullets in the magazine/cylinder to slide (way) into the case (this is called setback). Especially on autoloader rounds, the crimp alone will not hold the bullet.

From what you've been saying, "depriming" is not the issue here. It takes very little force to remove a primer from a case. In addition, that force is being brought to bear near the end of the ram travel where the press's mechanical advantage (leverage) is at it's peak.

If you want to see what I mean, size a case with the die the way it is now, then remove the decapping pin and run another one through. I doubt you'll notice a difference.

By depriming first, all you're doing is creating an extra step. The various "universal decapping dies" that only remove the primers don't resize.

If you'd like, PM me and you can stop by my place and try out the dies in my press, or I can come to your place and try it to see if I think the force required is excessive.

It is harder to resize big long rounds, if the finished ammo looks/shoot OK, maybe what you're experiencing is normal.
 
I always resize. So although seperate depriming does add a step it works for me. It is just all part of the rotation. +1 on the ABC's of Reloading, it was my first book on reloading and I keep re-reading it. That and the Lyman manual.
 
Bugs,
Something is out of whack with your setup.
I size .44 mag, .45 Colt, .357 Mag and many other pistol calibers on a crappy old single linkage Lyman turret press and they come out of the die with no undo force.
Two fingers on the handle should be able to raise the handle to extract the case.
I use Lee carbide dies for many calibers and have never lubed a pistol case.
The sizing die, either carbide or steel, should always be adjusted to just touch the shellholder or shell plate in a progressive press.
Perhaps one of the members who lives nearby could check out the problem with you.

Jack
 
The Goose said:
I set up a seperate de-priming station. I picked up a cheap Lee press for $21.00 at Midway and a Lee universal decapping die. I bolted it to a seperate bench and drilled a hole through the bench and hung a plastic pail under the hole.
Click to expand...

+1 except I nailed an applesauce lid (with a hole in it) to the bottom of the bench and then just screwed the jar onto the lid. I also deprime dirty and then clean afterwards so that the pocket gets cleaned
 
The only other thing I can think of is to start lubing all these calibers but due to the volume of cases that I like to do at once I would think that's more costly, trouble and time consuming than using a single stage to do this. Also I don't think it would make it that much easier.---Bugs100
Click to expand...
Case lube is a wonderful thing! Use it correctly and you can lube several hundred cases in a few seconds. Wait a couple of minutes for it to dry and you're golden.

Don't waste your time resizing with a single stage press or by not lubing your cases at all.


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
Well I'm sorry about the rant about resizing but the frustration over the series of events with these resizing dies is clouding my judgement.

The first die a Lee was broken the nut on the top wouldn't turn and was evidently inserted wrong at the factory and stripped the thread. They were suppose to send me a new one but only sent me a decapping pin and a nut which were useless.

But I had already ordered a new set of 41 mag dies which came the next day. So I put the die in and the ram wouldn't go up at all. After a hour I found the problem out of a 1000 cleaned cases I had picked the only one which had a 1/2 inch wad of car wax and chrushed walnut media in it. Evidently a drop of the car wax never mixed with the media and some how had gotten into the case attracted the crushed walnut and turned in to concrete.

So I reset the die again to be sure and started again. The ram handle going up was real real hard but knocked out the primer. But seeing how it was new I figured it was going to get better. 50 hard cases later still the same. One at a time.

So I took the die out screwed it down to the plate and didn't lower the plate and turn it a 1/8 of turn down this time, I just left it like that. Same thing no difference.

Now I measure the die and it's fine, just real tight to use.

So I actually started backed the die and extending the depriming pin each time trying it, untill it was at it's most extended lenght and still knocking out primers. No real difference in ram resistance.

I'm a real big guy and it takes a lot of real lot of pressure on the ram handle to get it up to it's peak to hear the primer pop out and on the down stroke it's a lot easier but it's not as easy as another caliber like a 357.

So after a week of screwing around with this I called Hornady. They inform me that since it's a brand new die even though it's carbide I should lube the cases untill the die smoothes out.

Then he tells me that he really to sure why it's doing it but I'm not the first call about this lately either.

Also that not only should I lube my all 32-20 cases I should also dip the the rim of the case in powdered graphite even with carbide dies.

I'm just going to have to start lubing all my cases because the carbide dies arn't as trouble free as they say.


.
 
I just finished loading a 100 lubed cases it is easier but not as easy as I like. The cases come out fine.

But I had a couple that I had to throw away because the rim of the cases got a dinged by the powder measure. They come out with two matching dents exactly on opposite sides.
The last time couple of times that happened the retaining ring at the very bottom of the powder measure broke and shortly after the pistol measure bushing fell out.

I got a few extra free retaining rings the last time from Hornady and they said I'm the only one this happens too. I've had strange problems with the press since I've got it,

Little things like the shell plate constantly getting loose every 20 rounds which Hornady told to use plumbers tape on, Yeah sure, I really want to pick out loose tape every time I change calibers.

I have a other small problems also that I have fix constanty but it's getting to be second nature and I'm starting to fix them as I go along with out thinking about them to much.

Small things like the primer tube becoming loose and has to be tightened constantly.

The timing go's out of whack a lot and has to be adjusted, I'm getting real good at adjusting the pawls. I think it might need to be adjusted again because of the troubles it's has now.

The way things are going with this press I might open a Hornady service center.
 
Wow Bugs... I've had some "growing" pains with my LNL but you are seeing some weird stuff. I haven't adjusted my pawls ever. I don't want to jinx myself but my shell plate never comes loose. No primer tube coming lose either.

I have noticed that things work much better without CCI primers and to keep the station clean with an air can. I hope you can get these things resolved.
 
Buggs100,
I know nothing about the Hornady LNL but I have to think that "Operator Error" is most likely the problem rather then the press. But, your lucky because EddieCoyle and Lugnut know the press.

But keep the rest of us informed as to what what happens and what solutions you find.


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
+1

I've never seen these problems either. I had to adjust the pawls once after about 200 rounds, which I figure was the break-in, and haven't done it since over many thousands of rounds. I did have a problem with the sub-plate bolts coming loose every few hundred rounds, but I solved that with Loc-tite.
 
tele_mark said:
+1
I did have a problem with the sub-plate bolts coming loose every few hundred rounds, but I solved that with Loc-tite.
Click to expand...

Well this would be a PITA when changing shell plates though.

Honestly- I can't understand how this would come lose so easy. There really isn't much force on the bolt when the shell plate rotates- just the ejector spring (nothing much there for sure) and the drag of the shell plate itself (again should be much drag as all). I've heard it before from others but it baffles me. I usually just snug it up with a box end wrech while holding the shell plate in one hand, the wrench in the other.... just hand tight.
 
Wow Bugs, what a PITA. If you'd like me to come by and look at it (or if you'd like to check mine out) say the word.
 
Lugnut said:
Well this would be a PITA when changing shell plates though.

Honestly- I can't understand how this would come lose so easy. There really isn't much force on the bolt when the shell plate rotates- just the ejector spring (nothing much there for sure) and the drag of the shell plate itself (again should be much drag as all). I've heard it before from others but it baffles me. I usually just snug it up with a box end wrech while holding the shell plate in one hand, the wrench in the other.... just hand tight.
Click to expand...

No, I'm talking about the two bolts that hold the sub-plate to the ram.
 
I really don't think that I'm doing any thing wrong or there's any thing wrong with the way my press is set up. I've had a few close friends that have reloaded with me, that have been reloading for over 30 years. One that has the exact same press said, this press has a mind of it's own, it's weird.

One of the things I've heard from Hornady about the retaining ring in the bottom of the powder measure is I'm suppose to be the only one that has ever had that problem. I even talked to one of the guys that designed the press and we talked for a good 1/2 hour about my problems while I was sitting at the bench. Their more than willing to talk to me and send me parts and I think I'm even getting invited to the xmas party.

I reload almost every day for a hour monday to friday and since I got this press in Feb. have reloaded about 15,000 rounds. Every night I clean the press when I'm through and when I change calibers I take every thing apart and clean it first.

Jim thanks for the support and the offer of help, it's really appreciated. Some day I going to have to take a road trip to visit you and your 940.
 

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