pdm
NES Member
But... those ads on the TV... they said it's wrong to vote on other people's rights...
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Democrats, NRA reach deal on gun bill
- Thread starter Mike1911
- Start date
But... those ads on the TV... they said it's wrong to vote on other people's rights...
Not really... he's just a brady shill, and everyone knows it. I think we lose
more people to them "not showing up" than we do to anyone who was ever
"converted in the other direction" by listening to rosenthals spewage about
"reasonable gun laws".
-Mike
Why should we be willing to compromise AT ALL though? We've suiffered
enough injustices as it is (I think that a couple of phone books worth of
laws is enough) and pissed a lot of our rights away for the sake
of trying to get the antis to go away, and it hasn't worked, at least not
as far as I can tell. Such capitulation is like using scotch tape to
hold the hood of your car down when the latch is broken... it doesn't
work very well and when you hit the first bump, it is as if the tape wasn't
there at all anyways. And it leaves a sticky residue behind, too.
The other point, which Ken brought up... is I'm still looking for the
part where we're supposed to get something out of the deal. If it
really is a "compromise" where is our pound of flesh in exchange for
theirs? I don't see anything here other than the equivalence of capitulating
to the antis for the sake of trying to get them to back off. Even if that
does work, they will be back later, and they'll use our previous capitulation
as a political weapon against us.
-Mike
Mike,
Just pointing out that the 80 million gun owners you mention are not all on our side. Kinda whittles down your effectiveness and support.
Garys
NES Member
As you note, it's a third rail issue because of the NRA. If the NRA didn't kick and scream about it, it wouldn't be a third rail issue and the anti gun forces (not all are Democrats) would just push it through.
Gary
Gun Control Bill’s Senate Outlook Uncertain
Legislation intended to strengthen gun buyer background checks is unlikely to clear the Senate as easily as it moved through the House.
The measure, which the House passed by voice vote Wednesday, appears to have detractors in the Senate. A hard-line gun rights group, Gun Owners of America, criticized the House for pushing through the bill (HR 2640) before grass-roots opposition could mobilize. Mental health advocacy groups also have expressed concerns.
“They pulled this Sneaky Pete operation, springing it on the floor before anyone had a chance to see the language,” said Michael Hammond, a consultant for Gun Owners of America.
The National Rifle Association (NRA) and gun control groups support the bill, sponsored by one of Congress’ leading gun control advocates, Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York.
The measure would make more electronic data available to states for checking the criminal and mental health records of people who want to purchase guns. It would authorize new funding to help states enter felony convictions, mental disability and domestic violence records into the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). Gun dealers use NICS, created by a 1993 law (PL 103-159), to check whether a person qualifies to buy a firearm.
Hammond said his group has identified a half-dozen senators “who are willing to do what it takes to stop this thing.”
Not on that list, Hammond said, is Republican Larry E. Craig of Idaho, one of the top gun rights supporters in the Senate and a close ally of the NRA.
Craig’s staff said Wednesday he had not decided whether to support the bill. The senator suggested earlier this week that he was pleased with negotiated language that would explicitly protect the ability of veterans designated as having psychological conditions, such as post-traumatic stress disorder, to buy guns. The measure would also authorize procedures that would allow those successfully treated for mental illness to regain the ability to buy guns.
“That is a very big plus in my book,” Craig said.
To smooth passage in the Senate, Democrat Charles E. Schumer of New York said he assured Craig he would not try to amend the bill. The NRA has made clear it would withdraw its support for the legislation if other gun control provisions are added. But Gun Owners of America says the bill is unacceptable as written.
Effects of Virginia Tech
The measure bypassed the House Judiciary Committee and reached the House floor rapidly after the conclusion of negotiations led by McCarthy and Rep. John D. Dingell of Michigan, a close Democratic ally of the NRA.
Supporters say the mass murders at Virginia Tech in April helped push the bill along. McCarthy introduced similar legislation in the last Congress, but that bill languished in committee under the Republican majority despite tepid approval from the NRA. Advocates of the House-passed legislation say it likely would have prevented Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech gunman who also killed himself, from buying a firearm because of his history of mental illness.
Wednesday’s House vote came the same day as the release of a report examining issues raised by the Virginia Tech shootings that the White House requested shortly after the tragedy. The report by the departments of Health and Human Services (HHS), Justice and Education endorsed strengthening the background check system for gun buyers.
After discussing the report with President Bush, HHS Secretary Michael O. Leavitt noted, “The second key finding was the need for us to have adequate and complete information for gun sales, particularly among those who have criminal records and mental health [histories].”
White House spokesman Tony Fratto said the Bush administration “basically supports the goals of the legislation but has some questions about the funding mechanisms.”
The Virginia Tech shootings were cited by a bipartisan parade of lawmakers who endorsed the McCarthy-Dingell measure on the House floor. “Today we take the first step in making sure this tragedy is not repeated,” said Lamar Smith of Texas, a cosponsor of the bill and the ranking Republican on the Judiciary Committee.
The only lawmaker who spoke in opposition to the legislation was Republican Ron Paul of Texas, who called it a “flagrantly unconstitutional” imposition on the rights of gun owners and said it would “undermine privacy rights” of all Americans by expanding government databases.
House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers Jr., D-Mich., who supports the bill, expressed concern about provisions related to veterans and people with treated mental illnesses that might “permit individuals who should not own guns to be able to purchase them.”
Keith Perine contributed to this story.
First posted June 13, 2007 12:10 p.m.
Legislation intended to strengthen gun buyer background checks is unlikely to clear the Senate as easily as it moved through the House.
The measure, which the House passed by voice vote Wednesday, appears to have detractors in the Senate. A hard-line gun rights group, Gun Owners of America, criticized the House for pushing through the bill (HR 2640) before grass-roots opposition could mobilize. Mental health advocacy groups also have expressed concerns.
“They pulled this Sneaky Pete operation, springing it on the floor before anyone had a chance to see the language,” said Michael Hammond, a consultant for Gun Owners of America.
The National Rifle Association (NRA) and gun control groups support the bill, sponsored by one of Congress’ leading gun control advocates, Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York.
The measure would make more electronic data available to states for checking the criminal and mental health records of people who want to purchase guns. It would authorize new funding to help states enter felony convictions, mental disability and domestic violence records into the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). Gun dealers use NICS, created by a 1993 law (PL 103-159), to check whether a person qualifies to buy a firearm.
Hammond said his group has identified a half-dozen senators “who are willing to do what it takes to stop this thing.”
Not on that list, Hammond said, is Republican Larry E. Craig of Idaho, one of the top gun rights supporters in the Senate and a close ally of the NRA.
Craig’s staff said Wednesday he had not decided whether to support the bill. The senator suggested earlier this week that he was pleased with negotiated language that would explicitly protect the ability of veterans designated as having psychological conditions, such as post-traumatic stress disorder, to buy guns. The measure would also authorize procedures that would allow those successfully treated for mental illness to regain the ability to buy guns.
“That is a very big plus in my book,” Craig said.
To smooth passage in the Senate, Democrat Charles E. Schumer of New York said he assured Craig he would not try to amend the bill. The NRA has made clear it would withdraw its support for the legislation if other gun control provisions are added. But Gun Owners of America says the bill is unacceptable as written.
Effects of Virginia Tech
The measure bypassed the House Judiciary Committee and reached the House floor rapidly after the conclusion of negotiations led by McCarthy and Rep. John D. Dingell of Michigan, a close Democratic ally of the NRA.
Supporters say the mass murders at Virginia Tech in April helped push the bill along. McCarthy introduced similar legislation in the last Congress, but that bill languished in committee under the Republican majority despite tepid approval from the NRA. Advocates of the House-passed legislation say it likely would have prevented Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech gunman who also killed himself, from buying a firearm because of his history of mental illness.
Wednesday’s House vote came the same day as the release of a report examining issues raised by the Virginia Tech shootings that the White House requested shortly after the tragedy. The report by the departments of Health and Human Services (HHS), Justice and Education endorsed strengthening the background check system for gun buyers.
After discussing the report with President Bush, HHS Secretary Michael O. Leavitt noted, “The second key finding was the need for us to have adequate and complete information for gun sales, particularly among those who have criminal records and mental health [histories].”
White House spokesman Tony Fratto said the Bush administration “basically supports the goals of the legislation but has some questions about the funding mechanisms.”
The Virginia Tech shootings were cited by a bipartisan parade of lawmakers who endorsed the McCarthy-Dingell measure on the House floor. “Today we take the first step in making sure this tragedy is not repeated,” said Lamar Smith of Texas, a cosponsor of the bill and the ranking Republican on the Judiciary Committee.
The only lawmaker who spoke in opposition to the legislation was Republican Ron Paul of Texas, who called it a “flagrantly unconstitutional” imposition on the rights of gun owners and said it would “undermine privacy rights” of all Americans by expanding government databases.
House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers Jr., D-Mich., who supports the bill, expressed concern about provisions related to veterans and people with treated mental illnesses that might “permit individuals who should not own guns to be able to purchase them.”
Keith Perine contributed to this story.
First posted June 13, 2007 12:10 p.m.
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