DATE FIRM, May 22nd . . . 2010 Spring Cast Bullet Workshop - Shirley Rod and Gun Club

For that matter, I could always use the Scarborough Fish and game club, just off Exit 42 of I95 (Maine Turnpike).... But rather than do that, I'd just as well do it here.

Hoping for someone to step up in Mass somewhere.
 
DATE FIRM, May 22nd . . . 2010 Spring Cast Bullet Workshop, Please mark your calendar

OK, we have an update with regard to LOCATION for the event. Just heard back from Eddie Coyle, and he has gotten us the Shirley club for the date of Saturday, May 22nd, beginning at 9:00 AM.
So, mark that date on your calendar!
Here's a link to the Shirley club site:
http://www.shirleyrodandgunclub.com/

Thanks, EC!

We need to start filling the assignment list. That is to say, people to take responsibility for various subjects for the event.

Bob, could you create the list, and keep track of the volunteers. You can put me in for anything that you need me for.
 
Crap, should have checked my calendar..... I have RO duty that day.....[shocked]

Will see if I can get someone to take it for me and get back to you to confirm...[wink]

Am thinking that we may want to break the day up into 3 discrete sessions which would be:

  • Smelting - This would cover basics of converting the raw lead into clean/fluxed ingots.
  • Casting - This would cover basics of converting clean/fluxed ingots into bullets
  • Bullet prep - The basics of finishing the bullets so they are ready to load (Sizing/lubing, gas checks etc)

Would be nice to have as much different equipment there as possible to give everyone a chance to see and try out stuff.... I can bring (assuming I can clear the date):

  • 2 complete smelting setups (burners, pots, smelting moulds etc)
  • Cabine tree hardness tester
  • Lee hardness tester
  • 2 Lee 4-20 lb casting pots
  • Star Lubrisizer (will require power to run the heater)
  • Several Freechex gas check makers (with arbor press setup)
  • Several different casting moulds so folks can see/try different ones (Cramer, RG4 etc)

With multiple smelting setups am thinking it would be nice to run one with WW and the other with range lead so the folks can contrast since that is often the most common sources we have.... Will also give us a good intro into alloying so folks can get the best performance from their bullets....

Folks attending will need to be sure to bring their own eye protection, heavy duty (welding etc) gloves and wear long sleeved shirts....

Is this pretty much along the lines of what you are thinking?


DukeInMaine said:
DATE FIRM, May 22nd . . . 2010 Spring Cast Bullet Workshop, Please mark your calendar

OK, we have an update with regard to LOCATION for the event. Just heard back from Eddie Coyle, and he has gotten us the Shirley club for the date of Saturday, May 22nd, beginning at 9:00 AM.
So, mark that date on your calendar!
Here's a link to the Shirley club site:
http://www.shirleyrodandgunclub.com/

Thanks, EC!

We need to start filling the assignment list. That is to say, people to take responsibility for various subjects for the event.

Bob, could you create the list, and keep track of the volunteers. You can put me in for anything that you need me for.
Click to expand...
 
Duke, that sounds good on the carpooling. I may head down the night before if I can shack up my dog at the inlaws and impose on my dad and his wife in Lunenburg for a night. We got a bit to plan, but I really would rather just go for the day and it would give us all a bit of time to chat on the way down and debrief on the way home too!! I CALL SHOTGUN!!!! :)

I think the WW and range lead both would be good to learn like Bob said. It seems around here that WW are a bit tough to get now. Range lead though can be mined at my range no problem. Also I have that lead I will bring too. Interested in the hardness testing as well. Part of what you need to know of course. My main focus I think if I do decide to cast will be .45-70 bullets and maybe some other rifle bullets. Pistol bullets maybe, but the rifle stuff seems more valuable to me right now.
 
Perfect!!!

Bob J said:
Crap, should have checked my calendar..... I have RO duty that day.....[shocked]

Will see if I can get someone to take it for me and get back to you to confirm...[wink]

Am thinking that we may want to break the day up into 4 discrete sessions which would be:

  • Smelting - This would cover basics of converting the raw lead into clean/fluxed ingots. Duke will handle this section, if that's OK
  • Casting - This would cover basics of converting clean/fluxed ingots into bullets
  • LUNCH...... you forgot lunch!
  • Bullet prep - The basics of finishing the bullets so they are ready to load (Sizing/lubing, gas checks etc)

Would be nice to have as much different equipment there as possible to give everyone a chance to see and try out stuff.... I can bring (assuming I can clear the date):

  • 2 complete smelting setups (burners, pots, smelting moulds etc) Duke will bring ONE setup, including dutch oven, stand, burner, propane, ladles, fluxing, ingot molds
  • Cabine tree hardness tester
  • Lee hardness tester
  • 2 Lee 4-20 lb casting pots - These will require power Duke will bring one of the 20 pound casting pots
  • Star Lubrisizer (will require power to run the heater)
  • Several Freechex gas check makers (with arbor press setup)
  • Several different casting moulds so folks can see/try different ones (Cramer, RG4 etc) Duke will bring a few Lee molds

With multiple smelting setups am thinking it would be nice to run one with WW and the other with range lead so the folks can contrast since that is often the most common sources we have.... Will also give us a good intro into alloying so folks can get the best performance from their bullets....

Folks attending will need to be sure to bring their own eye protection, heavy duty (welding etc) gloves and wear long sleeved shirts....

Is this pretty much along the lines of what you are thinking?
Click to expand...
 
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namedpipes said:
Eye protection - similar to that used in shooting or something more robust than that?

My calendar is marked!
Click to expand...

Shooting eye protection is fine..... Depending on what we are smelting I sometimes use a full face shield just in case there is moisture or a live round in the mix (range lead).....

Fixxahs post the other day certainly made me a believer!
 
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Good thought. I would have brought safety glasses anyways. I wear them every day in my line of work, but I will throw my face shield in as well. I use that when I turn on the lathe. I need a new pair of fireplace gloves (I buy welding gloves), so that's easy. I'll bring the old ones just in case they get wrecked and they are more comfy than new ones anyways!
 
Bob_J and I are co-hosting this event. At this point, his mastery of the casting process is at least equal to mine. I'm asking him to do some of the organizing. He's such a shy guy. hahaha

One of the details that we have developed is to get raw materials for the day. Here's the plan:

We'd like each attendee to commit to bringing 20 pounds of wheel weights. If you're going to cast, you need to get good at securing wheel weight lead anyways. Twenty pounds isn't much. Easy to carry. We'll pool the weights together, and use it for the final bullet casting. Unused ingots and bullets will be distributed among all participants, equally.

We also need some "range lead", and I have asked Jasper, who I know is in big time for that, to supply some. I don't have an answer from him yet, but if anyone else can also supply some range bullets in raw form, we'd appreciate that as well.

I have some show and tell samples of plumbers lead, roof flashing, and even linotype (Ruger_Bob) from the last workshop, so we can use that as a show and tell.

Please post when you have secured your 20 pounds of wheel weights, and post as "IN". We'll start a sign up sheet sort of thing in the OP.
 
I can mine some range lead. I will do it as soon as weather permits so it has time to dry out. I am sure my wife will love a bucket or two in the living room by the woodstove! :) I will also see about wheel weights around here. I asked one place a while back and they seemed to already have a way to get rid of it. We'll see about other local places though. I can get a ton of range lead though as it is an untapped resource at our range!
 
R1ch said:
Is there a proper way to collect range lead from indoor vs outdoor ranges? Are just gloves and a respirator good enough protection?
Click to expand...

Hi Rich,
I can share with you what we learned so far mining range lead....

Buy the best face mask you can find.... As a minimum get the ones that have two bands and seal tightly around the nose.... Mining indoor range lead is dirty and dusty.... If you have access to a respirator bring it but most (with the right cartridge) are designed for lead fumes which is not the particulate you will find when doing the mining... Would not buy one if you don't have access to one but definitely get the best face mask you can find....

As a minimum I would use safety glasses and preferably goggles to protect your eyes from the dust and debris.....

You will hopefully find "moon rock" in the trap.... This stuff is lead fused together and while relatively soft can be a tough proposition in a tight space.... A pickax is great if you have the room but a heavy hand sledge/large chisel and crowbar works well.... I also brought a 22 oz rock hammer that worked great.... One of our compatriots had access to a jack hammer which was a huge help....

The lead will be mixed with shards of copper from jacket fragments..... Good work gloves are highly recommended to protect your hands....

Also, be prepared to bring your own lighting..... The indoor traps are often dark and poorly lit.....

The lead will be heavy (duh!) Plan on lots of 5 gallon buckets filled roughly 3/4 of the way (to minimized spillage) and heavy duty lifting/hauling gear.... Get a lifting back support if one is available to protect your back when lifting this stuff....

When you are done be sure and leave the lead you plan on bringing to the workshop in it's original form (ie uncleaned). There will probably be sand (assuming the range uses a sand trap) and other crap in it but Mark and I have found some pretty efficient ways to get most of that out before smelting and can demo the process at the workshop....

Good luck and stay safe!
 
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I'm listing attendees in the first post.

Don't forget, anyone who is attending is obligated to bring 20 pounds of raw wheel weights or 20 pounds of range lead.

These will be smelted, in two separate batches, and turned into ingots.

Those ingots will be used later in the day for casting bullets. Any remaining ingots and bullets will be distributed among the participants who want them.
 
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DukeInMaine said:
I'm listing attendees in the first post.

Don't forget, anyone who is attending is obligated to bring 20 pounds of raw wheel weights.

These will all be smelted together into ingots. Those ingots will be used later in the day for casting bullets. Any remaining ingots and bullets will be distributed among the participants who want them.
Click to expand...

Duke, FWIW I would recommend that you consider range lead to also meet the "bring" requirement..... Range lead will give me (or you) the chance to talk processing, hardness (antimony content) and alloying considerations..... I will have two separate smelting set ups as well as a number of different smelting molds so we can keep the ingots separate and alloy in the pot when we are casting....

As for remaining ingots and bullets I have (and I know you have as well) a number of different moulds available so if anyone would like to use this workshop as an opportunity to cast and try different bullet configurations I would be glad to support that.... Might be a good opportunity for folks to cast and try some before they go out and buy a mould.... For example, I have the following for 45 ACP:

200 grain H&G #68
200 grain RNHP
230 grain RN

Also have several moulds for 44 mag, S&W500, 30 cal rifles, Fat 30 cal rifles, 357 Keith etc... Would be glad to bring any if there is an interest...
 
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That's fine with me. I have edited my previous post, to reflect that attendees can bring either range lead or wheel weights.

You have more molds than me, and you should bring as many of them as you feel comfortable with.
I'll be bringing a few of mine. I think it's important to cover tumble lube grooves vs deep grooves, and tumble lubing vs lubricizer lubing.

So, just a few of those will help cover those bases. Most people will be reloading 9mm, .40 S&W, 45 ACP, and perhaps a few rifle calibers (.30 for sure). So, with just a few molds, we can do all that.
You have the molds for the gas checks, and the freechex system, so that will cover that base as well.

Bob J said:
Duke, FWIW I would recommend that you consider range lead to also meet the "bring" requirement..... Range lead will give me (or you) the chance to talk processing, hardness (antimony content) and alloying considerations..... I will have two separate smelting set ups as well as a number of different smelting molds so we can keep the ingots separate and alloy in the pot when we are casting....

As for remaining ingots and bullets I have (and I know you have as well) a number of different moulds available so if anyone would like to use this workshop as an opportunity to cast and try different bullet configurations I would be glad to support that.... Might be a good opportunity for folks to cast and try some before they go out and buy a mould.... For example, I have the following for 45 ACP:

200 grain H&G #68
200 grain RNHP
230 grain RN

Also have several moulds for 44 mag, S&W500, 30 cal rifles, Fat 30 cal rifles, 357 Keith etc... Would be glad to bring any if there is an interest...
Click to expand...
 
NP... I can't cover 9MM and 40 but can cover the 45, 30 cal and a few others (357, 44, S&W500) if anyone is interested.... Have a metric grunch of moulds now so would prefer if anyone wants anything specific they should post so I know what to bring.... Do you have 9MM and 40 moulds? I don't load those calibers so don't have those available in case anyone wants to take those home to try out......

NP with TL bullets.... You have more experience with tumble lube since I hard lube so if you are comfortable maybe you could cover that..... Do you need me to bring the Lee 45 TL mould or do you have one you are planning on using?

DukeInMaine said:
That's fine with me. I have edited my previous post, to reflect that attendees can bring either range lead or wheel weights.

You have more molds than me, and you should bring as many of them as you feel comfortable with.
I'll be bringing a few of mine. I think it's important to cover tumble lube grooves vs deep grooves, and tumble lubing vs lubricizer lubing.

So, just a few of those will help cover those bases. Most people will be reloading 9mm, .40 S&W, 45 ACP, and perhaps a few rifle calibers (.30 for sure). So, with just a few molds, we can do all that.
You have the molds for the gas checks, and the freechex system, so that will cover that base as well.
Click to expand...
 
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Yes, I have the 9mm and the .40 molds.

I don't have any 45 molds. I will be getting a 357 mold soon, but that will be a deep groove lube mold. My new Ruger is hungry.

I'm also going to bring my new toys (the swaging dies to make jacketed bullets). . .

Bob J said:
NP... I can't cover 9MM and 40 but can cover the 45, 30 cal and a few others (357, 44, S&W500) if anyone is interested.... Have a metric grunch of moulds now so would prefer if anyone wants anything specific they should post so I know what to bring.... Do you have 9MM and 40 moulds? I don't load those calibers so don't have those available in case anyone wants to take those home to try out......

NP with TL bullets.... You have more experience with tumble lube since I hard lube so if you are comfortable maybe you could cover that..... Do you need me to bring the Lee 45 TL mould or do you have one you are planning on using?
Click to expand...
 
I will be huntin' fer lead this weekend.

I will eventually be casting .45, 9mm and .30 carbine, so if anyone has a couple variation on the .30 it would be great. I've seen a couple recommended on "discussions".
 
Excellent! Duke will be able to cover the 9mm but I can cover the 45 and .30 carbine.... For the 30 I have both the 311291 (170 grain) and the 311284 (214 grain).... Both are gas checked and we can hard lube them so you should have no problem pushing them to anything reasonable if we hard cast/water drop them....

Bring your 30 carbine and we will slug it for you so we can be sure to size the bullet for the best performance.... No need to slug the 45 (assume ACP) or 9mm since they historically seem to be pretty consistent but the 30 might be worth a look.....

BTW a group buy for a 30 carbine bullet mould is in play here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67094

namedpipes said:
I will be huntin' fer lead this weekend.

I will eventually be casting .45, 9mm and .30 carbine, so if anyone has a couple variation on the .30 it would be great. I've seen a couple recommended on "discussions".
Click to expand...

For raw WW the best finds are usually small gas stations.... My experience is that most of the big chains already have deals in place for their lead..... Small indoor ranges are good sources for range lead (see my earlier post) and outdoor ranges are ok but the digging/sifting can be a PITA.... The next fall back if you come up dry would be scrap metal yards.... Expect to pay (more) but still cheaper than going ebay or cast boolits shipped lead since you will have to pay shipping as well.... If all else fails, there is a gentleman on cast boolits (AK47man IIRC) who lives near Burlington Vt who has raw WW for sale.... You can at least pick up and save the shipping.....

Keep in mind that asking other casters where they get their lead is like asking a die hard fisherman where his favorite fishing spots are....[smile]
 
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Duke, Marcus5Aurelius has graciously agreed to come and help.... To be honest he is a much better caster than I am so think he should be a welcome addition to the instructor/coach group.....

Would suggest for the casting portion that we break it up since we will have at least 3 casting pots with Mark running one, me running one and you running one.... Probably also makes sense for your pot to be running your moulds (assume 9mm and 40 Cal) with your normal alloy, one of my pots set to hard cast water drop (S&W500/30 Cal = 21 BHN or so) and the other pot set up to cast 45ACP/44Mag/357/38 with a softer alloy (50/50 Range Lead/WW water drop = 14 BHN or so)... Depending on loading and what everyone wants to cast + how hot they want to load I think we can option the Mag rounds to the HC pot as necessary....

For lubing/sizing I don't have any dies for 9mm/40 cal so might be best if you could cover those and I'll take care of the calibers I normally work with.....

Think this will give the most chance for lots of hands on/good instructor/coach coverage, particularly if we have a good turn out.... Does this work for you?
 
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