'Cop Killer' Gun Used In Ft. Hood Shooting, Officials Said

Soft body armor works like a net, not like a wall. That's why tests don't provide accurate results unless they are backed by something resembling meat. If you wanted to create a round to get past soft armor, you would make it small (like 5mm), very pointy, and a high velocity. You need small size and a lot of force. Most bullet proof vests won't stop a knife, but will stop a .45. The knife is very slow, but the mass of the person pushing it makes up for it. A 5.7 has little mass, but it's being pushed at rifle velocities.
The problem with something that is optimized for getting through a vest is that it is NOT optimized for lethality.

I would say that the round is more similar to the old Tokarev, 7.62 x 25, in that compared to most other handgun rounds, it was aimed at going as small and fast as possible.
 
I notice how they keep mentioning that the scumbag bought his guns legally, probably just to put the gun shops name in print.

Why shouldn't an active duty Major in the military be allowed to legally purchase a firearm?

Everyone who felt iffy about this guy was afraid of the PC police to report him. So there was nothing to disqualify him.
 
tuna said:
I notice how they keep mentioning that the scumbag bought his guns legally, probably just to put the gun shops name in print.

Why shouldn't an active duty Major in the military be allowed to legally purchase a firearm?

Everyone who felt iffy about this guy was afraid of the PC police to report him. So there was nothing to disqualify him.
Click to expand...


I think that the gun control advocates will all easily overlook the fact that an officer in the military is in most peoples minds one of those who most would expect would have relatively little difficulty in obtaining a firearm. They are, after all, going to be in the military, which operates WEAPONS. I know all military officers do not needs weapons in their work, but all should know how to use them, and those who do not need them to perform their work should not be distinguished and separated from thsoe who do to deny them use of firearms. An officer should be able to buy guns easily, if anyone should.

The information I keep reading seems to indicate more and more that the pro-Islamofacist statements made by this guy were well known to his superiors in the military and maybe other investigative arms of our govt. They should be investigated. If they do not investigate fully such people, then what is their real function?

Finally, why, why does our Army train people to use weapons effectively and safely, then tell them that they cannot carry them? Who the heck do you want to carry firearms anywhere? People who know how to use them properly and are thought to have the right mindset to do so? If that's not at least some portion of our armed forces, then who are the people who should be able to do it?
 
Tucobkg said:
If I'm not mistaken, the 5.7 round looks like a .223 round but the cassing is a little smaller. It's like shooting AR15 in a handgun.
Click to expand...

In the voice of the guy countering the lady saying "It's the shoulder thing that goes up... "

"No, it's not. ". 5.7 x 28 doesn't even hold a candle to a .223 in ballistics.... most of the time, ballistics are about the same as .22 magnum.

-Mike
 
MagnumAl said:
Yeah, pretty stupid of me to think people go through boot camp.

I forgot, only room for one know it all on the thread. My bad Jose!
Click to expand...

You dumbass. People in the military have ZERO access to military weapons while in garrison/port except under very limited circumstances. And even then most of the time those weapons are unloaded.

That douchebag was just a psychiatrist. He did not go through "boot camp".

Lemme guess: you haven't served a day in uniform have you?
 
theGringo said:
Huh. I thought everyone went through boot camp. I was misinformed.
Click to expand...

There are many kinds of "basic" training. Doctors and such do not go to the same Army basic training that enlisted soldiers do.

USMA cadets do not go to basic training with enlisted men either. They have their own version on the summer of plebe year, same as USNA.

The term boot camp, in fact, is a NAVAL term that denotes basic training for the US Navy, US Marine Corps, and US Coast Guard only.

How it got corrupted into its current usage is beyond me.

And let's not get sidetracked. What attracted my attention what this dumb statement:
Originally Posted by MagnumAl
He was IN THE ARMY. He had access to GUNS. NEWS FLASH!

I mean, damn!
Click to expand...

Once again, for people like MagnumAl who evidently have not spent a day in the armed forces: access to military firearms is strictly controlled and there is NO way that a psychiatrist would have been issued an firearm of any kind while in garrison. Nor would he be allowed anywhere near an armory.
 
Good thing he didn't use "Black Talons" or a "Saturday Night Special"....[hmmm]

I did hear on the TV that he used a "Cop Killer" gun, and reloading takes a "long time"....[rolleyes]


The latest is that he went around bragging that he was a jihadist....trying to start arguments.
 
The paranoid in me is wondering if this was said :

" Shit. We knew this guy was a time bomb , and did nothing. You know who's going to be pissed ? - the Conservatives and Libertarians. "

( Reply ) " No problem. Want to see them all start shouting ay each other and completely forget what matters ? Say " Cop killer gun " and they'll get so distracted they won't even care why we left this nut-job in uniform."
 
Jose said:
There are many kinds of "basic" training. Doctors and such do not go to the same Army basic training that enlisted soldiers do.

USMA cadets do not go to basic training with enlisted men either. They have their own version on the summer of plebe year, same as USNA.

The term boot camp, in fact, is a NAVAL term that denotes basic training for the US Navy, US Marine Corps, and US Coast Guard only.

How it got corrupted into its current usage is beyond me.

And let's not get sidetracked. What attracted my attention what this dumb statement:


Once again, for people like MagnumAl who evidently have not spent a day in the armed forces: access to military firearms is strictly controlled and there is NO way that a psychiatrist would have been issued an firearm of any kind while in garrison. Nor would he be allowed anywhere near an armory.
Click to expand...

Ah. So, MP's, SP's, et al do not carry on base you say? What do they carry, lollipops for lost children and a radio like a mall cop? My point was merely to point out the stupidity of wondering how a man in texas, on a military base, got a gun. fortunately you supplemented the liberal medias stupidity with your own forum ninja insults and name calling which makes moral gun owners, such as myself and most of this board, look like a bunch of fools. Too bad a select few drag us down in that regard.

But, since it will make you feel better Jose and you clearly need to feel better, here it is:

Jose is the expert on all things military. All hail Jose.
 
MagnumAl said:
Ah. So, MP's, SP's, et al do not carry on base you say? What do they carry, lollipops for lost children and a radio like a mall cop? My point was merely to point out the stupidity of wondering how a man in texas, on a military base, got a gun. fortunately you supplemented the liberal medias stupidity with your own forum ninja insults and name calling which makes moral gun owners, such as myself and most of this board, look like a bunch of fools. Too bad a select few drag us down in that regard.

But, since it will make you feel better Jose and you clearly need to feel better, here it is:

Jose is the expert on all things military. All hail Jose.
Click to expand...

Dude watch out, Jose was a spaceship door gunner.
 
MagnumAl said:
Ah. So, MP's, SP's, et al do not carry on base you say? What do they carry, lollipops for lost children and a radio like a mall cop? My point was merely to point out the stupidity of wondering how a man in texas, on a military base, got a gun. fortunately you supplemented the liberal medias stupidity with your own forum ninja insults and name calling which makes moral gun owners, such as myself and most of this board, look like a bunch of fools. Too bad a select few drag us down in that regard.

But, since it will make you feel better Jose and you clearly need to feel better, here it is:

Jose is the expert on all things military. All hail Jose.
Click to expand...

Not if they're not on duty, no. And service members in one of the other 200 or so MOS's don't carry on base either, on duty or not. And now that you mention it, I don't even think SP's exist anymore. I'm pretty sure it's been fully transitioned to SF.
 
Yeah I know, was trying to give a visual on the round.

drgrant said:
In the voice of the guy countering the lady saying "It's the shoulder thing that goes up... "

"No, it's not. ". 5.7 x 28 doesn't even hold a candle to a .223 in ballistics.... most of the time, ballistics are about the same as .22 magnum.

-Mike
Click to expand...
 
Tucobkg said:
Yeah I know, was trying to give a visual on the round.
Click to expand...

Okay, but you also said it's "like shooting AR15 in a handgun". Perhaps we misunderstood you, but it seems that you're saying it packs the power of an AR15 into the size of a handgun, which is beyond false. I'd actually call it doubleplusuntrue.
 
What I was trying to relay here was that the round punches a rifle round. It's a very high velocity round so I compared it to a rifle.

ochmude said:
Okay, but you also said it's "like shooting AR15 in a handgun". Perhaps we misunderstood you, but it seems that you're saying it packs the power of an AR15 into the size of a handgun, which is beyond false. I'd actually call it doubleplusuntrue.
Click to expand...
 
ochmude said:
Okay, but you also said it's "like shooting AR15 in a handgun". Perhaps we misunderstood you, but it seems that you're saying it packs the power of an AR15 into the size of a handgun, which is beyond false. I'd actually call it doubleplusuntrue.
Click to expand...

I was having a major fight/debate with someone who, being in mil with LE overlap should know better, was also claiming the 5.7 has the ballistics of an "assault rifle." I did my best to show that is totally false, and in both the published lit and "real world" experience, the 5.7 has been shown to have very poor terminal ballistics. He refused to believe that and told me what a moron I am, etc. The 5.7 fanboys out there are a real PITA I am finding....[shocked]
 
Tucobkg said:
What I was trying to relay here was that the round punches a rifle round. It's a very high velocity round so I compared it to a rifle.
Click to expand...

The LE/Mil restricted AP rnd is high velocity. The "sporting" rnds sold in the gun stores (and it's unclear which the shooter was using at this time...) are a tad higher velocity then most handguns but nothing close to most rifle rnds like the 5.56 and such. All versions of the 5.7 have crap terminal ballistics regardless.
 
MaineCWPtraining said:
Suspected Massacre Weapon Purchased Legally At 'Guns Galore' Shop in Texas

By MATTHEW COLE, PIERRE THOMAS, JASON RYAN, and RICHARD ESPOSITO
Nov. 6, 2009

The gun thought to be used in the Fort Hood massacre packs so much firepower, it's known as 'the Cop Killer,' federal law enforcement officials said.

Major Nidal Malik Hasan allegedly packed a FN Herstal Five-seveN tactical pistol, which according to federal law enforcement officials, was legally purchased from the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas in Aug. 2009.

ABC NEWS
Click to expand...
A plain-vanilla lever-action .30/30 carbine would have done even more damage. Many of the wounded victims wouldn't have survived a high-power rifle cartridge and the old .30/30 will outpenetrate any handgun cartridge. Hit probability is much higher with a long gun, also. So I guess one of America's most legendary hunting rifles is a "cop killer" too.[frown]
 
No realy it is like a 5.56 combined with a 4.88 with a vector multiplier added into the primer and using custom mixed powder from the northern shore of some mystical island. It works best when shot out of a ferrari by a hot blond, the one on the left. [smile]

We all have to just face the fact that the press is going to do what ever they can to make a horrible situation sound like it would never have happened if guns were not out there. Facts mean nothing to these people.
 

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