CLEO signoff possibly going away?

If this is true this will be a boon to those of us who live in towns with anti CLEOs, only want an SBR or whatnot, and don't want to blow the money to make a valid trust. NFA sales in this country will probably go up by 20% easy.

The best part about this is once it happens it will cause a certain individual at CHSB/EOPS to basically shit his pants. [rofl] I wonder what kind of smoke he is going to start blowing once this happens.

-Mike
 
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Blind Bat said:
01SVTvert -Can you please cite a source for this info? I have been unable to find more details on this. It would be a blow to NFA trusts if that was true. I can see anti-gun CLEO's trying to use the finger print policy to subvert class-3 approvals.
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Any LE agency can do fingerprint cards, and they don't have to know what it's for. People get printed for lots of other reasons. I don't like it either, but if there is a "tradeoff", that's a pretty cheap tradeoff.

-Mike
 
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drgrant said:
The best part about this is once it happens it will cause a certain individual at CHSB/EOPS to basically shit his pants. [rofl] I wonder what kind of smoke he is going to start blowing once this happens.
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I bet some folks in MA would push for legislation to ban SBRs. Whether or not it would pass would be an open question.
 
M1911 said:
I bet some folks in MA would push for legislation to ban SBRs. Whether or not it would pass would be an open question.
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I don't really think it'd get that far... it'd still remain far under the radar, frankly. While this would increase the number of SBR registrations in MA, it would go from "almost nothing" to being like 1% of people who have an LTC. There is still the main barrier of "NFA transfers take WAY too long to approve" that will scare away most people. Most people don't like buying a gun and having to wait a year to actually obtain/build it.

Not to mention despite all the antis in this state, currently the legislature doesn't have what I call an "anti gun architect" type in it like Barrios and Cheryl Fakes used to be. The current antis in the MA legislature are borderline retarded and have no idea how to write a law that would actually pass. The closest they have to that, is that piece of waste Linsky, and he's an idiot compared to what someone like Barrios was. (And for those reading, I'm not complimenting Barrios- he's still human pond scum, it's just that there's no denying that he was a smarter brand of pond scum than the antis we have now. )

-Mike
 
And should this come to pass... how long until the MA Legislature pulls the rug out from underneath us and requires that SBR's need a sign-off and/or an additional permit?

For the record, I would love to be able to own an SBR without having to deal with my "red town" CLEO... I have at least 3 firearms in mind that could use a
bit of a make over.
 
jim/boston said:
For a simple AR-15 SBR I would use quicken willmaker (about 20 bucks on fleabay). I use trusts written by real lawyers for expensive MG's but for a 400 upper??? I wouldn't even sweat it...
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Why? If I screw it up the worst that will happen is that they will confiscate the upper or do you just think the ATF doesn't pay as close attention to just a SBR?
 
Mass-diver said:
Why? If I screw it up the worst that will happen is that they will confiscate the upper or do you just think the ATF doesn't pay as close attention to just a SBR?
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To over simplify, its because once an MG always an MG...not the case with SBR's (they can all be removed from the registry)... so if for some reason down the road "they" say your trust is no good, just make your sbr "not an SBR" anymore...
 
Blind Bat said:
01SVTvert -Can you please cite a source for this info? I have been unable to find more details on this. It would be a blow to NFA trusts if that was true. I can see anti-gun CLEO's trying to use the finger print policy to subvert class-3 approvals.
Click to expand...

Post on ar15.com class III legal and the nfatca web site IIRC. It specifically lays out that every application will require fingerprint cards. Let them say they closed the " trust loophole " and won when it actually gets easier to get NFA in most states now. I know of at least one dealer who does fingerprint cards for his clients.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=569547. Shows part of it. I know they have the whole procedural change put out on a post somewhere online..
 
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Mass-diver said:
Why? If I screw it up the worst that will happen is that they will confiscate the upper or do you just think the ATF doesn't pay as close attention to just a SBR?
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The main reason is that a registered SBR lower is just the cost of an AR lower, plus some engraving, and the $200 tax stamp, while a machine gun is $4000 and up.
 
Well those of us who have a trust will be putting in form 1s and 4s over the next 12 months to avoid this whole stupid fingerprint rule. Not only does it add a further unnecessary burden but it slows down the process significantly. One of the nice things about the trust that typically sped up wait times was not having the fingerprint check. That is a big bottleneck in the system.
 
Guaranteed that the fingerprint system is not the biggest hangup but having 10 examiners who are allowed to "telecomute" and all the rest of the gaffs from the .gov add up to most of the time wasted. Run your prints the first time, log a reference number, second and subsequent times you are already qued and one (or more) prints are verified as the same, fast turnaround. Considering your prints are already in the system and being checked against crimes constantly, there is no way a new run generates anything.
 
So I think I am going to ask Wareham PD if they will sign a form 1...unless anyone has heard anything new about this?
 
edmorseiii said:
So I think I am going to ask Wareham PD if they will sign a form 1...unless anyone has heard anything new about this?
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I heard from a bird that the new forms will be out in jan. no sign off needed.


"Send it" like chinalfr from my can attached to a string from another can in the lair of the dark lord kramdar.
 
MichaelJR said:
I heard from a bird that the new forms will be out in jan. no sign off needed.


"Send it" like chinalfr from my can attached to a string from another can in the lair of the dark lord kramdar.
Click to expand...

Is this a solid bird, or a interwebz bird? If this is the case, I will wait and just send in the new form.

After hitting reply, I recalled this...

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/181062-Breaking-News-from-the-NFATCA

So there may very well be some validity to your bird.
 
Change is in sight, http://www.nfatca.org/

One of the biggest issues faced by the NFA community is the need to eliminate the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) signature on NFA Forms. We have been diligently working on this for you for years. We have also warned that progress would be agonizingly slow and that has proven to be true. However, we are pleased to report that all of the i's are dotted and t's are crossed and now the first step in the rule making process has been published. The job isn't finished, but we can now see the goal line.

This is the kind of battle we constantly wage for our members and the NFA community. If you have been looking for a good reason to join, getting rid of the CLEO signature is about the best reason to pull out that credit card!
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In exchange, it looks like trusts and corporations will have to have certain key members fingerprinted/photographed. So to get rid of what should be a formality, they've further added to their prints database. Those of you not from the free-er parts of the country where one need not be printed like a criminal to exercise a constitutional right might not quite grasp the full implications.
 

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