Civilian Combat statistics

[JimConway]

Interesting article on this by Ed Lovette in the February issue of Combat Handguns.
(The data is from Mr. Lovette's own research and I would love to see the from where it came.)


!) Location--vast majority happen in the victims home or place of business.

2) Lighting Conditions--Victim usually has the chance to get the lights on.

3) Distance--0-10 feet. Most between 6-10 feet.

4) Duration---actual shooting was over in seconds or a fraction of seconds.

5) Physical contact rarely involved but when it did was exceptionally violent.

6) Number of shots fired was often one but an avjerage of three.

7) Movement--movement was usually to retrieve the pistol and then to confirm the problem.
There was no "pieing" or searching, no moving while shooting or lateral movement to avoid gunfire.

8) Use of security equipment ( OC spray, knife, flashlight etc)..NONE!!!

9) Use of Cover--Almost non existant.

10) Firing positions---Shots fired by the Armed Citizen (AC) were most frequently from the standing position, several were on their back in bed, only one fired using the bed as cover.

11) Type of Weapon Used.. AC overwelmingly used a .38 revolver.

12) Response of Bad Guy When Shot---He most often stopped fighting and ran off, closely followed by stopping fighting and falling down. When the AC fired a contact shot into the bad guys torso/neck the fight was usually over very quickly.

13) Verbal Exchange Between AC and Bad Guy---Almost always.

14) Training by AC---Overwhelmingly none, followed by a small number who had taken a CCW course and a very small amount who had fired a handgun while in the military.

 

[Admin]

(The data is from Mr. Lovette's own research and I would love to see the from where it came.)

+1 Very interesting. I would like to know where the data was taken from.

 

[Jose]

10) Firing positions---Shots fired by the Armed Citizen (AC) were most frequently from the standing position, several were on their back in bed, only one fired using the bed as cover.

Surprised by husband coming home?

Seriously, this is interesting stuff and I too would like to know where to find the body of the research.

 

[TomH]

Seriously, this is interesting stuff and I too would like to know where to find the body of the research.

Probably in the morgue!

But yeah I'd be interested in the percentages also, in terms of how often the home owner came out on top, etc.

 

[The Goose]

I read the article. Very interesting. Ed Lovette writes that he will reveal his sources in the next installment.

 

[Rockrivr1]

6) Number of shots fired was often one but an avjerage of three.

This quote sounds off to me. Often one, but an average of three. To me that would mean that more then half the time there would be 4 or more shots fired. That would seem to argue against the statement of "often one".

 

[economist]

This quote sounds off to me. Often one, but an average of three. To me that would mean that more then half the time there would be 4 or more shots fired. That would seem to argue against the statement of "often one".

It depends on what "often" means, but there is no mathematical reason why 1 shot more than 50% of the time would rule out an average of 3 shots. Just for example, with 100 shootings the following scenarios produce a 3-shot average:

1 shot (55 times), 2 shots (15), 3 shots (5), 5 shots (10), 10 shots (15)

1 shot (52 times), 3 shots (14), 5 shots (22), 8 shots (12)

If you define "often" as "more likely than anything else", then, again just as an example, the following works:

1 shot (30 times), 2 shots (10), 3 shots (15), 4 shots (20), 5 shots (25)

But really, "often" is so vague that there is no meaningful way to interpret it other than as "non-zero probability of occurrence, and likely a probability non-trivially greater then zero, though less than a readily available stronger statement would imply."

 

[Chris]

Nah, you'd only need a few people to empty their FN 21 shot mags AND their reloads to skew the average. (^_^) Figure a small but significant number of high-cap mags being emptied and you can see how you can reach an average of 3 and still have the majority be a single shot. For example, if you had 100 people fire one shot, you'd only need 15 people emptying a 15 round mag to make the average be almost 3.

Honestly, the findings don't really surprise me at all.

 

[firtree]

When I took a CCW class at Sigarms Acedemy one of the drills was
a mocked up hallway, with very low light (thank goodness I had
night sights) and a man-shaped target on a pulley that came flying
at you and would nail you if you did not move, draw, shoot and avoid the
moving target. Almost everyone in that drill dumped their entire
magazine the first time through the drill. Once the adrenaline goes into
effect and you start shooting it is very hard to stop. I put 9 rounds
into it the first time (full 1911 payload) and struggled to keep from sending
more than 4 into it the second pass through.
I can understand how the round count could go up in a hurry.

F

 

[economist]

I took the low light class at Sig as well, and more than half of the people in the class were police officers. I don't think anyone, including the LEOs, fired fewer than 5 or 6 rounds at the target moving toward them down the dimly lighted hallway.

 

[KMaurer]

I took the low light class at Sig as well, and more than half of the people in the class were police officers. I don't think anyone, including the LEOs, fired fewer than 5 or 6 rounds at the target moving toward them down the dimly lighted hallway.

If the target is still coming at you and you don't keep putting more holes in it you're a damn fool and would probably end up dead out in the real world. The only reason to stop shooting would be if the target stops or you run out of ammo (a good reason, but a very bad outcome). Anybody who would train themselves to quit while the target is still moving at them would be training to commit suicide, and anybody who would teach somebody else to stop shooting in such a situation would be assisting them in doing so.

Ken

 

[economist]

Agreed -- and that is why we all kept shooting!

 

[firtree]

Agreed, also. The fight to stop shooting occurred (for me) even after
the target stopped moving forward. I found myself doing a lot of point
shooting in those drills, even when I tried to aim. The adrenaline just
made it hard to think and "draw, push, align, press" took over.

 

[Jose]

I found myself doing a lot of point
shooting in those drills, even when I tried to aim. The adrenaline just
made it hard to think and "draw, push, align, press" took over.

But the funny thing is that after lots and lots of repetitions of "draw, push, align, press" your body develops a kinesthesic awareness of your handgun's sights in relation to your eyes by how your arms are extended and all the other mechanics of drawing and pointing a handgun.

Once one starts to see that "automatic" aiming (for lack of a better word) work up close it's like a revelation. Of course, as distance and time available increase it is always desirable to use the sights. But inside of 5 yards, I'll go for that point shoot with a quick flash sight picture every time.