Cases getting stuck in revolver

[Tiktock]

Hello, Ive recently started having an odd problem that i am trying to diagnose. I have an older Dan Wesson .44 that i've put maybe 500 rounds through since acquiring it. I have only used factory loads, nothing too hot.

About a month ago, i gave the gun a really good cleaning until everything was spotless (or so i thought.)

It seems that since then, the cases will ALL get stuck in the cylinder after firing. They will come out about 1/4" then get stuck and require me to either bang the extractor or punch them out from the front of the cylinder. Examining the cases, none are split but are not easy to re-insert and I can feel where it appears the case has slightly expanded and cause friction in the cylinder, but nothing extreme...

This is happening on all six rounds, not just one....

I had a wheelgun guy take a look at the cylinder with a bore scope and he said that he couldnt see any signs of anything in the cylinder itself that would cause the problem and there were no deformities that were visible to the human eye.

He suggested possibly taking it to a gunsmith to have the cylinder measured to see if any kind of deformation has occurred, though I cannot imagine that factory ammo suddenly threw all six cylinder slots out of whack at once.

Ive tried a few types of ammo and the problem seems to occur across varying brands. I dont shoot .44 specials and know that doing so can cause this problem by building up lead inside the cylinder.

I also read that sometimes the extractor is out of alignment and can bind causing the cases to appear stuck, but this is not the case because when not using the extractor, the cases are still bound up when pushing them out from the front by hand.

I know 99% of the time, this will need a simple cleaning to fix, but its odd because it seemed to start after a cleaning...

What should I be looking into? Is this a gunsmith issue, or something I can diagnose?

*edit*
Ammo fired most recently that sticks is:
Winchester White Box 240gr

 

[RKG]

Revolver cylinder charge holes should be dry when being fired. (I tend to oil them when cleaning and I usually swab a dry patch through before firing.) An excess of lube in a chamber can do some interesting things to cases. The usual sympton in a revolver is hard cycling, caused by setback. However, it is not beyond the realm of the possible that lube is causing your problem, particularly where the onset seems to have immediately followed an aggressive cleaning.

 

[Tiktock]

VERY interesting. The first time this occurred, the cases actually had a good deal of oil/breakfree on them when i pulled them out....perhaps theres some kind of solvent buildup that I caused. I will try doing a full re-cleaning and then fully dry those chambers out...

I cannot imagine that the cylinder itself has problems based on the cylinder itself. The cylinder walls are actually thicker than ruger blackhawks or most of whats out there and i've heard these guns were made specifically to eat a steady diet of heavy silhouette loads.

Man...serves me right for cleaning the gun...i swear sometimes guns run better dirty than clean.

 

[highlander]

Does anyone remember the S&W Model 53 22 Rem Jet? That revolver had to have absolutely clean chambers or the pistol would lock up from from case set back. Saw one a couple of years ago at my club,8 3/8" barrel blued steel and the ball of fire that came out of it was quite impressive

 

[RKG]

The problem with the M53 is that bottleneck cartridges have always been a marginal idea for revolvers, and with the pressure of the .22 Jet, the reason why became all too clear.

 

[Patriot]

Hello, Ive recently started having an odd problem that i am trying to diagnose. I have an older Dan Wesson .44 that i've put maybe 500 rounds through since acquiring it. I have only used factory loads, nothing too hot.

About a month ago, i gave the gun a really good cleaning until everything was spotless (or so i thought.)

It seems that since then, the cases will ALL get stuck in the cylinder after firing. They will come out about 1/4" then get stuck and require me to either bang the extractor or punch them out from the front of the cylinder. Examining the cases, none are split but are not easy to re-insert and I can feel where it appears the case has slightly expanded and cause friction in the cylinder, but nothing extreme...

This is happening on all six rounds, not just one....

I had a wheelgun guy take a look at the cylinder with a bore scope and he said that he couldnt see any signs of anything in the cylinder itself that would cause the problem and there were no deformities that were visible to the human eye.

He suggested possibly taking it to a gunsmith to have the cylinder measured to see if any kind of deformation has occurred, though I cannot imagine that factory ammo suddenly threw all six cylinder slots out of whack at once.

Ive tried a few types of ammo and the problem seems to occur across varying brands. I dont shoot .44 specials and know that doing so can cause this problem by building up lead inside the cylinder.

I also read that sometimes the extractor is out of alignment and can bind causing the cases to appear stuck, but this is not the case because when not using the extractor, the cases are still bound up when pushing them out from the front by hand.

I know 99% of the time, this will need a simple cleaning to fix, but its odd because it seemed to start after a cleaning...

What should I be looking into? Is this a gunsmith issue, or something I can diagnose?

*edit*
Ammo fired most recently that sticks is:
Winchester White Box 240gr

I had a similar problem with S&B .357 loads in both a Ruger GP100 and a S&W27. They
stuck to the point where I was afraid I was going to have to take it to a smith to get
them out. Someone mentioned the the manufacturing method of crimping the brass was
likely the fault. I haven't reloaded that batch of brass yet but intend to shortly. As for
the WWB I've never had an issue with it, just the S&B. I've had mushrooming primers in
some Norma ammo that completely bound up a S&W28 (couldn't cycle, open, or turn the
cylinder with the gun action). I stopped using that crap a long time ago.

 

[Tiktock]

Thanks for the info thus far. After searching the subject alot, I am going to try smoothing out the inside of the chambers, as well. I found posts stating that Dan Wessons have some of the roughest cylinders out there and I can clearly see machining lines inside the clyinders. I am still totally unsure as to why the problem suddenly began, rather than a slow progression, and the sudden onset is what had me worried that something had screwed up the cylinder itself.

Im gonna smooth the chambers a bit, do another thorough cleaning, ensure chambers are totally dry, re-set the clyinder gap, and buy a few different types of ammo. If the problem continues, its going to go to a gunsmith as I do not want to risk any type of serious pressure issue or Kaboom.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I found posts stating that Dan Wessons have some of the roughest cylinders out there and I can clearly see machining lines inside the clyinders. I am still totally unsure as to why the problem suddenly began, rather than a slow progression, and the sudden onset is what had me worried that something had screwed up the cylinder itself.

I think the reason for the sudden onset was in your original post:

About a month ago, i gave the gun a really good cleaning until everything was spotless

If the cylinders were rough, the nearly-invisible crud that had accumulated prior to your thorough cleaning was probably an aid to extraction. A little cylinder fouling prevented the brass from expanding into the microscopic machine mark "valleys".

You screwed up - you cleaned it.

 

[Tiktock]

I think the reason for the sudden onset was in your original post:


If the cylinders were rough, the nearly-invisible crud that had accumulated prior to your thorough cleaning was probably an aid to extraction. A little cylinder fouling prevented the brass from expanding into the microscopic machine mark "valleys".

You screwed up - you cleaned it.

Sonofa....haha! I entertained that idea, then thought to myself "youre overthinking this." Maybe ill buy some dirty blazer ammo and shoot the hell out of it, haha!! I basically confirmed what you said by putting some of my old brass in the cylinders...they slide out fine...im guessing now the same thing...the milling grooves were smoothed out with crap and now they are nice and sharp and clean and grab the case and/or allow it to expand into the grooves.

Im feeling better the more I think about the situation and it makes more sense...I just need to shoot the hell out of it and see if the problem gets better.

 

[EddieCoyle]

You could always load a 28ga cleaning mop up with buffing compound, chuck it into a drill, then run it through the cylinders to round off the high spots.

 

[Tiktock]

Well, the cylinder is polished. I couldnt get some of the deeper marks out and didnt want to actually remove much metal, so I basically buffed the inside and hopefully rounded off whatever sharp grooves were catching the brass. I decided to do this with the cylinder off, so ended up completely detail stripping the revolver. Luckily, im very mechanical, so didnt have trouble getting the 5 spring-loaded tiny mechanisms back into the frame....i bet lots would have problems as theres not much more than a diagram available on the net. For anyone working on a Dan wesson, heres what I had to do:

-Punch main frame hammer pivot pin out and remove
-Remove extractor star
-Punch out trigger guard pin
-Remove spring loaded clip at rear of trigger guard
-Remove entire trigger/guard assembly through trigger slot in frame (3 pieces)
-Remove u-shaped tiny crane lock
-Remove crane and cylinder assembly

Ill post a range report next chance i get!

 

[Tiktock]

Update: PROBLEM SOLVED.

After the full polish I put on the cylinders, i put 200 rounds through it without any stuck cases whatsoever. They now fall freely from the cylinder. All the advice and speculation was true....

I cleaned dirty chambers, exposing the older style chamber machining marks. I polished with 600-1200 grit paper, then buffed the cylinders with Flitz on a 32ga shotgun mop.

Suhweet! THanks for all the help!

 

[drgrant]

Isn't that the best when you fix something and it finally works
correctly?

-Mike

 

[Tiktock]

Isn't that the best when you fix something and it finally works
correctly?

-Mike

Totally. This was even more satisfying considering I had to break the revolver down and take every single moving part out to get that cylinder off, and didnt have any kind of guide whatsoever due to the age. My first success was getting it taken apart, second was getting it polished, third was getting it all back together and in working order without losing any tiny spring loaded pieces, and the cherry on top was when it still shot dead-zero and the empty cases fall into my palm when i turned it upside down. What a great feeling.

 

[M1911]

And most importantly, after you got it back together, you didn't have any parts leftover

 

[Tiktock]

And most importantly, after you got it back together, you didn't have any parts leftover

I know! I usually suffer a worse fate of having no parts leftover, but missing parts in whatever i'm fixing

I was really sweating this one, as I knew any lost part would be pretty difficult to find. Im not sure if other revolvers work this way, but the frame is one solid piece and all the internals fit together like a little jigsaw puzzle, then slip up inside the frame through the trigger guard requiring 3 hands to hold them all in place and in the right position.